[MED] 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

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[MED] 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:56 pm

As a result of this thread, bigWham removed the limit of 30 achievement medals. In the same thread, thanks to agentcom, a general consensus was reached on what the actual medal structure should be like once you've surpassed 30. In each case, you would only be awarded a new medal once you've achieved the milestones. For example, when you complete your 51st tournament this will be stored by the server but you will not be awarded a new medal until you've completed your 100th.

Please leave comments on either the numbers for each category or on anything else you think is relevant. I'll leave this open for about a week before submitting it.

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Achievement:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Tournament Contribution:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

General Achievement
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

General Contribution
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby agentcom on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:04 am

Thanks for the credit, but the consensus was really the result of RDS going to the department leaders and hashing things out. I'm in support of these levels because they came from that consensus of department leaders. I can't imagine there being a strong enough argument that these should be changed to something else (hence deviating from what the mod teams want). But I do like the openness that this is about to happen :) It was something that's been a long time coming.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:17 am

agentcom wrote:Thanks for the credit, but the consensus was really the result of RDS going to the department leaders and hashing things out. I'm in support of these levels because they came from that consensus of department leaders. I can't imagine there being a strong enough argument that these should be changed to something else (hence deviating from what the mod teams want). But I do like the openness that this is about to happen :) It was something that's been a long time coming.

+1
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Swifte on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:03 pm

Don't forget GA medals... a few of us are close.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:51 pm

OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:10 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)
300 (CCC)
500 (D)
700 (DCC)
1000 (M)
1500 (MD)
2000 (MM)
2500 (MMD)
3000 (MMM)


fixed
Last edited by greenoaks on Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby agentcom on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:42 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.


GAs weren't discussed ... but since people can get them for spotting differences between maps, answer trivia questions, etc., I'm inclined to think that this was an intentional omission.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:55 pm

agentcom wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.


GAs weren't discussed ... but since people can get them for spotting differences between maps, answer trivia questions, etc., I'm inclined to think that this was an intentional omission.


OK -- but there's still the mechanical problem with the Roman numerals that we can't display an arbitrary number of medals.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Swifte on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:46 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
agentcom wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.


GAs weren't discussed ... but since people can get them for spotting differences between maps, answer trivia questions, etc., I'm inclined to think that this was an intentional omission.


OK -- but there's still the mechanical problem with the Roman numerals that we can't display an arbitrary number of medals.


I think agent is suggesting the cap would just remain at 30 for GA's...?
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:57 pm

Oh, you're right, I misunderstood what he was trying to say.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:27 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
agentcom wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.


GAs weren't discussed ... but since people can get them for spotting differences between maps, answer trivia questions, etc., I'm inclined to think that this was an intentional omission.


OK -- but there's still the mechanical problem with the Roman numerals that we can't display an arbitrary number of medals.

my amendment for TO's will work
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby josko.ri on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:53 am

Metsfanmax wrote:As a result of this thread, bigWham removed the limit of 30 achievement medals. In the same thread, thanks to agentcom, a general consensus was reached on what the actual medal structure should be like once you've surpassed 30. In each case, you would only be awarded a new medal once you've achieved the milestones. For example, when you complete your 51st tournament this will be stored by the server but you will not be awarded a new medal until you've completed your 100th.

Please leave comments on either the numbers for each category or on anything else you think is relevant. I'll leave this open for about a week before submitting it.

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
150 (CL)
200 (CC)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

I think we need to take into account how easy/hard was any of those medal able to be achieved until now. It is not fair that for example "platinum" clan medal is more than double than current leader in clan medals (he has 45) while Tournament Organizing medal is only 200, which is about half of current leader (he has 383 completed and who knows how much ongoing so I would say around 400). So this about better numbers, which takes into account past medal winners, and also pace of growing maximum numbers (for example, tournament winner leader is not growing since HA left site, while clan medal leader is constantly growing by fast pace).

Taking into account above arguments, I propose this way:

General Achievement:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)

Tournament Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
200 (CC)
300 (CCC)

Tournament Organizing:
50 (L)
100 (C)
250 (CCL)
500
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:54 am

i like where you are going josko but you don't have enough levels for TO's ;)
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby betiko on Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:55 am

Yup i d like something for GAs as well if something is done about the rest. I know that 29 is the max awarded to a player so far, some are easier than others to get.
i ve won a few just by winning one game in some special event, one for winning a year long tournament with 72 team and tons of games.. But someone can win a clan medal winning 1/4 games. So some GA were easy, some where not. But it s clearly not fair to do something about other stuff and not GAs. If it was that easy, leaders would have much more than 29 after 7 years of existence of the site.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:00 am

agentcom wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:OK. How about GA the same as clans? 40/50/75/100.


GAs weren't discussed ... but since people can get them for spotting differences between maps, answer trivia questions, etc., I'm inclined to think that this was an intentional omission.

I don't believe so. GAs are traditionally much harder to come by than clan or tournament medals. True, some of the tasks required to achieve them are easy (while others can be quite hard) but that tendency is more than counterweighed by the fact that:
  • The events in which GAs are offered are less common, whereas new tournaments and new clan wars begin several times a day, and
  • The events in which GAs are offered are open to all members and at least in theory provide thousands of potential competitors for each medal, whereas tournaments and clan wars have finite numbers of opponents to be beaten.

I recall a post sometime in the past where a TD was chastising TOs for not offering enough GA medals in their tourneys, and said, "lackattack intended the number of GAs and TAs issued to be approximately equal." Unfortunately I can't find that post now despite a lengthy search, but I suppose it doesn't matter since we're travelling some previously untrodden roads these days.

Because of the rarity of GA-giving events and the (theoretically) limitless competition in those events, GAs are much more precious than clan or tournament medals. They should not have been left out of the mix, and should follow the same scale.

Edit: Cleaned up minor typos. No significant change in meaning.
Last edited by Dukasaur on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby agentcom on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:46 am

Well then, I stand corrected. Add GAs to the mix then :)

Maybe GAs at the tournament levels?

Oh and I don't know if anyone is even close capping out on GCs, but I'd say GCs should be coded at the same level as Maps, right?
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:21 am

agentcom wrote:Well then, I stand corrected. Add GAs to the mix then :)

Maybe GAs at the tournament levels?

Oh and I don't know if anyone is even close capping out on GCs, but I'd say GCs should be coded at the same level as Maps, right?

Yes, I would think so.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:50 pm

why are the efforts of TO's being trivialised?
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:56 pm

josko, I don't think we should be pacing it by whoever has the most. There can always be one person who goes well above and beyond what others do, and it doesn't make much sense to change the whole medal system to accommodate that. Instead we should look at what most people are capable of, and scale it that way. I think that's where the current balance came from, as reflected in the OP.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:44 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:josko, I don't think we should be pacing it by whoever has the most. There can always be one person who goes well above and beyond what others do, and it doesn't make much sense to change the whole medal system to accommodate that. Instead we should look at what most people are capable of, and scale it that way. I think that's where the current balance came from, as reflected in the OP.

yes, i agree. there is always a chance someone will have no life :-^ and spend far too much time here. the efforts of everyone else should not be considered inconsequential because of that.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:51 pm

greenoaks wrote:why are the efforts of TO's being trivialised?


Not having 15 medal levels for TOs does not mean their efforts are being trivialized.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:02 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:why are the efforts of TO's being trivialised?


Not having 15 medal levels for TOs does not mean their efforts are being trivialized.

my point was addressed by your other comment.

just because someone has an insanely high total doesn't mean the scale should be at that level. everyone else's effort would not get the appropriate recognition if you did.

don't set the scale to recognise merch & myself. set it at a level to reward and recognise the efforts of everyone else.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:55 pm

OK, then I think we're basically in agreement. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're being sarcastic...
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:22 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:OK, then I think we're basically in agreement. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're being sarcastic...

my 10 levels going up to 3000 was tongue in cheek but honestly, i don't need more recognition as i have the scoreboard.
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Re: 30+ Achievement Medal Structure

Postby Beko the Great on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:15 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Cartography:
35 (XXXV)
40 (XL)
45 (VL)
50 (L)

Tournament Organizing and Victories:
50 (L)
100 (C)
200 (CC)
500 and above (D) - > My suggestion

Clan Wins
40 (XL)
50 (L)
75 (LXXV)
100 (C)
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Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9) General Achievement (1)
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