The Fundamental Problem with Permanent Bans

[pimpdave]

Well then what about completely unreasonable and WRONG bans?

Remember when I was banned by that recently removed and appropriately disgraced partisan mod Night Strike? He banned me because I posted a video about the evils of pornography that I had no idea linked to some other videos that may have discussed the human anatomy.

I had NO IDEA that YouTube would link to those videos, because I saw the video as embedded in another site, and thus didn't see any "related videos" off to the side. Besides which, I never, EVER would have thought that'd be a problem, especially when YouTube required all users to verify being over 18 years old to see the innocuous video first.

However, according to Night Strike, that was enough to issue a 24 hour ban. Whatever, not a big deal, right? However, that goes into the "pot" for this escalating banning method.

So, because Night Strike doesn't like me and wants to get rid of me, he bans me for it, instead of sending me a PM saying, "hey, you realize there was some inappropriate material in that post, right?" and I can reply with, "oh no! I had no idea." (I really, honestly did not), we can take it down, and the problem is solved. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VIDEO I POSTED WAS NOT INAPPROPRIATE AT ALL, only the links to the side which are RANDOMLY GENERATED AND I CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR EVEN THOUGH I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH THE MODS AND TAKE THAT STUFF DOWN IF THEY JUST ASK.

Instead, the vindictive power drunk mod bans me. This kind of malarkey goes on on a daily basis, and even when a mod like Night Strike is removed from his position for continually abusing his power and behaving like a petty partisan, the bans he unjustly levied STILL STAND.

With this in mind, an escalating system is COMPLETELY FLAWED and results in ultimate injustice.

You mods should be users for awhile, and have to get banned the way we are, for STUPID STUFF and have NO RECOURSE, NO FORGIVENESS, NO MERCY.

[hwhrhett]

dont get the community as a whole, mixed up with a small amount of repeat offenders.. most people never break the rules.. ive been here for 3 years, and have been an active forum goer and player and have never once had a problem with not breaking the rules, its surprisingly easy...

And yet I bet you never found yourself getting into a political debate with a mod, thinking they could separate things that differ, only to find out that because you were successful in the debate that they decided to avenge their loss by looking for a reason to ban you.

It's happened to me, so I know it's happened to others. And if your solution to that is to not engage mods in a political or religious debate, then you should probably go jump in a lake because you're being silly.

Plus, part of the problem is that once you get in trouble once, they keep looking for reasons to ban you after that. So if you've never been banned, they'll dismiss most everything they'll flip out over with those of us that have been unjustly banned by certain vindictive and bullying neo-con mods *ahem*.

Or, even worse, those disgraced mods that I won't name here, but were REMOVED FROM THE SITE FOR ABUSING THEIR POSITION.

Those bannings aren't re-evaluated in a spirit of fairness to the member of the community. Oh no...

ive gotten into very heated arguements with many different mods over clan rights actually.. and ive never had a problem with them attempting to exact revenge... or being vindictive....

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

so your saying that we should fine them instead?

[jpcloet]

Well then what about completely unreasonable and WRONG bans?

That's not something I think I would look at right away, but sounds like a reasonable future agenda item.

You mods should be users for awhile, and have to get banned the way we are, for STUPID STUFF and have NO RECOURSE, NO FORGIVENESS, NO MERCY.

All mods are users. I do have a warning on my record as well.

You didn't answer my question pimpdave, would you be willing to work with me specifically to come up with a recommendation or 2?

[pimpdave]

ive gotten into very heated arguements with many different mods over clan rights actually.. and ive never had a problem with them attempting to exact revenge... or being vindictive....

And so, despite all of the testimony saying that it does go on, since it hasn't happened to you, you completely disallow for the possibility that it does?

Come on...

[jpcloet]

ive gotten into very heated arguements with many different mods over clan rights actually.. and ive never had a problem with them attempting to exact revenge... or being vindictive....

You play bad cop and I'll play good cop for clans.

[pimpdave]

You mods should be users for awhile, and have to get banned the way we are, for STUPID STUFF and have NO RECOURSE, NO FORGIVENESS, NO MERCY.

All mods are users. I do have a warning on my record as well.

You didn't answer my question pimpdave, would you be willing to work with me specifically to come up with a recommendation or 2?

Sure, but which question?

[StiffMittens]

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

That seems a little harsh. If you continue to steal from Wal-Mart, will they not ban you from their store? Or how about continually getting drunk and jumping on the safety mesh at a ball game? That will get you a ban too.

My personal view is that there is likely a middle ground and as a group, you can always make positive changes if you do it in a positive way. I'm not a big fan of permas and though I have given a few forum holidays, I've generally been reluctant to do so. We are still talking about the problem too generally. If the forum goers are willing to work with me, I'd certainly be open working with you to come up with a recommendation or 2. What say you forumites?

Well, I admit that I was exaggerating in order to more clearly illustrate the point. But I don't think that the examples you cited are directly analogous to this instance either. Stealing from Wal-mart is doing actual damage to their business and is also a crime, and drunkenly climbing the safety mesh at the ballgame is creating a potential safety hazard. A more apt comparison would be going into Wal-mart often and complaining about the prices even though you are making purchases at that Wal-mart. Or going to the ballgame and making fun of the players on the field whenever they make an error. In either you case you wouldn't automatically expect to receive a ban, but there is a threshold at some point where that behavior could become genuinely disruptive and damaging to the environment as a whole. I don't think this recent incident with Dancing Mustard really reached that threshold.

As for recommendations...

Well the first thing I would say (which is reiterating what others have said in this thread) is that a perma ban should be used only in the most extreme cases. For instance someone actively trying to cause real damage to the site/business (e.g someone who posts such offensive material that it drives away business, or spam that is designed to lure customers to another site), or engaging in clearly illegal activity (e.g. cyber-stalking/bullying, or using the forum as a venue to exchange pirated software, or kiddie porn). But all this is ostensibly already in the guidelines, perhaps they just need to be more carefully defined and more scrupulously adhered to.

The second thing I would say is that it might be good to have an appeal mechanism where someone who got perma-banned could attempt to lobby for a forum reinstatement. The community as whole could actually take part in this process perhaps a thread in the Cheat and Abuses forum opened for a specific period of time. Users could state their opinions both for and against reinstatement of the banned user. A poll could be included. This might help the mods to consider an individual case more thoroughly with respect to the individual user's impact on the community as a whole (and also provide a kind of face-saving mechanism for the moderators if a ban was imposed hastily or in a less than circumspect manner).

[pimpdave]

I don't know about a poll, because that can lead to a popularity contest, or who can make the most multis at public libraries to up the vote...

I just think that permanent bans should NEVER be part of an escalating ban system, but rather simply a weapon of absolute last resort.

If anyone is posting full names and addresses of users or phone numbers, permaban them immediately. If someone posts obvious pornography or repeatedly posts links with viruses, permaban them. Most of the community won't mind, and you'll know, because we won't be starting big threads in GD questioning the validity of the system as a whole.

Also, completely destroy and rebuild this paradigm of mods saving face. Just suck it up, cupcakes. You're not perfect (just like us), and you make mistakes (just like us), and we'll respect you more if you say, "whoops, my bad".

And you know the biggest reason WHY we'll respect you more? Because it will signal that we'll be given the chance, regularly, to say, "whoops, my bad".

Otherwise, there's no hope, and we'll have to continue to suffer the consequences of YOUR HYPOCRISY.

[Night Strike]

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

Umm......no. It's if you continually break the rules of the forum, you get removed from the forum. If you continually park illegally, you lose your license. Both are privileges, and both are adequate punishments.

I've never been warned nor banned either.
If I were in charge, i'd probably have had words with DM about his conduct.
That doesn't change my point or invalidate Dave's.

DM received words at every warning or vacation. Same goes for everybody else who has ever been warned or given a vacation. They know what post/comment got them the warning or vacation, it's just whether they agree with it crossing the lines or not. But words are always given.

Remember when I was banned by that recently removed and appropriately disgraced partisan mod Night Strike? He banned me because I posted a video about the evils of pornography that I had no idea linked to some other videos that may have discussed the human anatomy.

So, because Night Strike doesn't like me and wants to get rid of me, he bans me for it, instead of sending me a PM saying, "hey, you realize there was some inappropriate material in that post, right?" and I can reply with, "oh no! I had no idea." (I really, honestly did not), we can take it down, and the problem is solved. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VIDEO I POSTED WAS NOT INAPPROPRIATE AT ALL, only the links to the side which are RANDOMLY GENERATED AND I CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR EVEN THOUGH I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH THE MODS AND TAKE THAT STUFF DOWN IF THEY JUST ASK.

I had a second opinion on that case. I believe it was Twill. I did not make that determination on my own, even though it was within my discretion as a global moderator to give out a 24 hour vacation without a second opinion. (72 hour vacations have to have consultation.) Only admins can give vacations that last over 72 hours, so you don't have to worry about any "vindictive mods" choosing to move you up the ladder. Let's be very clear about something: I can justify every vacation I ever gave and have never been warned by an admin that a warning or vacation I handed out was over the top or excessive.

Remember when I was banned by that recently removed and appropriately disgraced partisan mod Night Strike?
Instead, the vindictive power drunk mod bans me. This kind of malarkey goes on on a daily basis, and even when a mod like Night Strike is removed from his position for continually abusing his power and behaving like a petty partisan, the bans he unjustly levied STILL STAND.

I've been removed and disgraced?? This is news to me. In fact, I believe I am still a member of Team CC. As pointed out above, I have never abused my powers, and you have provided no evidence to the contrary. Optimus Prime was making some changes with the structure of Team CC, and it was my choice to stay as Head Tournament Director and step down as Global Moderator. If I had abused that position, I would not have been given a choice, and probably would no longer be a Team member.

[Kotaro]

You know what's truly Fundamentally wrong with Permanent bans? That there's not 50 or so more of them for the assholish people that troll and spam these forums.

[StiffMittens]

Umm......no. It's if you continually break the rules of the forum, you get removed from the forum. If you continually park illegally, you lose your license. Both are privileges, and both are adequate punishments.

I don't know where you live, but damn your parking enforcement officers are strict! Round these parts if you continue to park illegally you continue to get parking tickets.

[pimpdave]

Whatever spin you want to put on it, Nighty, you're not in a position to abuse your power either at Twill's behest or while blaming him for it, and I couldn't be happier. At least clapper makes an effort to not be a vindictive partisan.

Also, no reasonable person has been able to provide me with a reason why that ban should count towards my "permanent record". So, please ditch this escalating permanent record system malarkey, or else let us start banning you for spurious reasons, so you can know what it's like.

Especially when you meant no harm and the banning was just adding injury to insult.

[pimpdave]

That there's not 50 or so more of them for the assholish people that troll and spam these forums.

Says the guy trolling...


ps. thanks for being the first in this thread to use salty language Kotaro. I was worried I'd be the first to use naughty language, but I feel as if a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

[hwhrhett]

ive gotten into very heated arguements with many different mods over clan rights actually.. and ive never had a problem with them attempting to exact revenge... or being vindictive....

And so, despite all of the testimony saying that it does go on, since it hasn't happened to you, you completely disallow for the possibility that it does?

Come on...

frankly, if it were up to me, people would get 2 warnings, then banned. i think the mods are often too lenient if anything.

the only people that complain that they are too strict are people that make a habit of breaking the rules..

You play bad cop and I'll play good cop for clans.

deal.

[StiffMittens]

I had a second opinion on that case. I believe it was Twill. I did not make that determination on my own, even though it was within my discretion as a global moderator to give out a 24 hour vacation without a second opinion. (72 hour vacations have to have consultation.) Only admins can give vacations that last over 72 hours, so you don't have to worry about any "vindictive mods" choosing to move you up the ladder. Let's be very clear about something: I can justify every vacation I ever gave and have never been warned by an admin that a warning or vacation I handed out was over the top or excessive.

That just indicates that the problem is more systemic rather than centered around just one staff member (or a few staff members).

[F1fth]

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

That seems a little harsh. If you continue to steal from Wal-Mart, will they not ban you from their store? Or how about continually getting drunk and jumping on the safety mesh at a ball game? That will get you a ban too.

My personal view is that there is likely a middle ground and as a group, you can always make positive changes if you do it in a positive way. I'm not a big fan of permas and though I have given a few forum holidays, I've generally been reluctant to do so. We are still talking about the problem too generally. If the forum goers are willing to work with me, I'd certainly be open working with you to come up with a recommendation or 2. What say you forumites?

Well, I admit that I was exaggerating in order to more clearly illustrate the point. But I don't think that the examples you cited are directly analogous to this instance either. Stealing from Wal-mart is doing actual damage to their business and is also a crime, and drunkenly climbing the safety mesh at the ballgame is creating a potential safety hazard. A more apt comparison would be going into Wal-mart often and complaining about the prices even though you are making purchases at that Wal-mart. Or going to the ballgame and making fun of the players on the field whenever they make an error. In either you case you wouldn't automatically expect to receive a ban, but there is a threshold at some point where that behavior could become genuinely disruptive and damaging to the environment as a whole. I don't think this recent incident with Dancing Mustard really reached that threshold.

As for recommendations...

Well the first thing I would say (which is reiterating what others have said in this thread) is that a perma ban should be used only in the most extreme cases. For instance someone actively trying to cause real damage to the site/business (e.g someone who posts such offensive material that it drives away business, or spam that is designed to lure customers to another site), or engaging in clearly illegal activity (e.g. cyber-stalking/bullying, or using the forum as a venue to exchange pirated software, or kiddie porn). But all this is ostensibly already in the guidelines, perhaps they just need to be more carefully defined and more scrupulously adhered to.

The second thing I would say is that it might be good to have an appeal mechanism where someone who got perma-banned could attempt to lobby for a forum reinstatement. The community as whole could actually take part in this process perhaps a thread in the Cheat and Abuses forum opened for a specific period of time. Users could state their opinions both for and against reinstatement of the banned user. A poll could be included. This might help the mods to consider an individual case more thoroughly with respect to the individual user's impact on the community as a whole (and also provide a kind of face-saving mechanism for the moderators if a ban was imposed hastily or in a less than circumspect manner).

Someone please respond to this. Why do people address the guy venting, but not the guy with some genuinely good and productive ideas?

[hwhrhett]

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

That seems a little harsh. If you continue to steal from Wal-Mart, will they not ban you from their store? Or how about continually getting drunk and jumping on the safety mesh at a ball game? That will get you a ban too.

My personal view is that there is likely a middle ground and as a group, you can always make positive changes if you do it in a positive way. I'm not a big fan of permas and though I have given a few forum holidays, I've generally been reluctant to do so. We are still talking about the problem too generally. If the forum goers are willing to work with me, I'd certainly be open working with you to come up with a recommendation or 2. What say you forumites?

Well, I admit that I was exaggerating in order to more clearly illustrate the point. But I don't think that the examples you cited are directly analogous to this instance either. Stealing from Wal-mart is doing actual damage to their business and is also a crime, and drunkenly climbing the safety mesh at the ballgame is creating a potential safety hazard. A more apt comparison would be going into Wal-mart often and complaining about the prices even though you are making purchases at that Wal-mart. Or going to the ballgame and making fun of the players on the field whenever they make an error. In either you case you wouldn't automatically expect to receive a ban, but there is a threshold at some point where that behavior could become genuinely disruptive and damaging to the environment as a whole. I don't think this recent incident with Dancing Mustard really reached that threshold.

As for recommendations...

Well the first thing I would say (which is reiterating what others have said in this thread) is that a perma ban should be used only in the most extreme cases. For instance someone actively trying to cause real damage to the site/business (e.g someone who posts such offensive material that it drives away business, or spam that is designed to lure customers to another site), or engaging in clearly illegal activity (e.g. cyber-stalking/bullying, or using the forum as a venue to exchange pirated software, or kiddie porn). But all this is ostensibly already in the guidelines, perhaps they just need to be more carefully defined and more scrupulously adhered to.

The second thing I would say is that it might be good to have an appeal mechanism where someone who got perma-banned could attempt to lobby for a forum reinstatement. The community as whole could actually take part in this process perhaps a thread in the Cheat and Abuses forum opened for a specific period of time. Users could state their opinions both for and against reinstatement of the banned user. A poll could be included. This might help the mods to consider an individual case more thoroughly with respect to the individual user's impact on the community as a whole (and also provide a kind of face-saving mechanism for the moderators if a ban was imposed hastily or in a less than circumspect manner).

Someone please respond to this. Why do people address the guy venting, but not the guy with some genuinely good and productive ideas?

there is already an appeals process, it is through the e-ticket system... of course that could not be discussed publicly, as in the past alot of people will stand up for people and vouch for people that end up being true cheaters and the people that vouched were either accomplises or people that just chose to believe someone's word rather than the facts....

and i dont know of anybody that was perma-banned for something that doesnt hurt the site....
ie:
consistent ridiculous abuse/vulgar language/hate speech hurts the site
cheating hurts the site.

[pimpdave]

Someone please respond to this. Why do people address the guy venting, but not the guy with some genuinely good and productive ideas?

Umm, he got the ideas from the guy who is in your face while providing good and productive ideas. I'm from the east coast, what the hell do you want? Round these parts we bond by fighting one another.

If I wanted to vent I'd have a livejournal. Instead I'm trying to get a point across to a public that has obviously deemed this thread valuable enough to take it to three pages in length. So, sir, I must respectfully say gfy, why don't you respond to it, and lets get back to the topic at hand.

[F1fth]

The escalating ban scheme in the current form of the guidelines is somewhat like saying after the 6th or 7th parking ticket the police have the right to saw off your hands and poke out your eyes.

That seems a little harsh. If you continue to steal from Wal-Mart, will they not ban you from their store? Or how about continually getting drunk and jumping on the safety mesh at a ball game? That will get you a ban too.

My personal view is that there is likely a middle ground and as a group, you can always make positive changes if you do it in a positive way. I'm not a big fan of permas and though I have given a few forum holidays, I've generally been reluctant to do so. We are still talking about the problem too generally. If the forum goers are willing to work with me, I'd certainly be open working with you to come up with a recommendation or 2. What say you forumites?

Well, I admit that I was exaggerating in order to more clearly illustrate the point. But I don't think that the examples you cited are directly analogous to this instance either. Stealing from Wal-mart is doing actual damage to their business and is also a crime, and drunkenly climbing the safety mesh at the ballgame is creating a potential safety hazard. A more apt comparison would be going into Wal-mart often and complaining about the prices even though you are making purchases at that Wal-mart. Or going to the ballgame and making fun of the players on the field whenever they make an error. In either you case you wouldn't automatically expect to receive a ban, but there is a threshold at some point where that behavior could become genuinely disruptive and damaging to the environment as a whole. I don't think this recent incident with Dancing Mustard really reached that threshold.

As for recommendations...

Well the first thing I would say (which is reiterating what others have said in this thread) is that a perma ban should be used only in the most extreme cases. For instance someone actively trying to cause real damage to the site/business (e.g someone who posts such offensive material that it drives away business, or spam that is designed to lure customers to another site), or engaging in clearly illegal activity (e.g. cyber-stalking/bullying, or using the forum as a venue to exchange pirated software, or kiddie porn). But all this is ostensibly already in the guidelines, perhaps they just need to be more carefully defined and more scrupulously adhered to.

The second thing I would say is that it might be good to have an appeal mechanism where someone who got perma-banned could attempt to lobby for a forum reinstatement. The community as whole could actually take part in this process perhaps a thread in the Cheat and Abuses forum opened for a specific period of time. Users could state their opinions both for and against reinstatement of the banned user. A poll could be included. This might help the mods to consider an individual case more thoroughly with respect to the individual user's impact on the community as a whole (and also provide a kind of face-saving mechanism for the moderators if a ban was imposed hastily or in a less than circumspect manner).

Someone please respond to this. Why do people address the guy venting, but not the guy with some genuinely good and productive ideas?

there is already an appeals process, it is through the e-ticket system... of course that could not be discussed publicly, as in the past alot of people will stand up for people and vouch for people that end up being true cheaters and the people that vouched were either accomplises or people that just chose to believe someone's word rather than the facts....

and i dont know of anybody that was perma-banned for something that doesnt hurt the site....
ie:
consistent ridiculous abuse/vulgar language/hate speech hurts the site
cheating hurts the site.

Appreciate the response. For what it's worth, I've never heard of any sentence successfully appealed within the e-ticket system. I think the ticket system is more for account issues and for general questions, not really an appeals system per se.

As for the latter, I would argue than DM has done neither of the things you listed. Sure, he's been kind of a bugger sometimes, but at its worst his behavior is an annoyance, not a serious harm to this site (while at its best contributes A LOT to this site's community).

[pimpdave]

cheating hurts the site.

Dancing Mustard has never cheated, neither have I. Yet I've been banned for things that never hurt the site.

the only people that complain that they are too strict are people that make a habit of breaking the rules..

So then what, you've never taken a risk? You've never made a mistake? Because I can tell you, for certain, that the banning I received from Nighty for the "porn offense" was such a clear mistake no one can ever say it was anything but. I was trying to do a good thing, and educate the masses about how deceptively bad pornography can be.

Instead of being told, "hey man, looks like you made a mistake, but that video had some links to some boobies that weren't a part of that video itself, at all, and some people are very offended by that, so we edited it out, just wanted to let you know to avoid that in the future," I was effectively told,

"Ahoy, pimpdave, you have broken a rule you never knew you broke and so we're issuing you a ban, do not bother telling us it was a huge mistake and you'll not do it again and you are sorry and didn't realize because we are set in our ways and do not want to hear anything from the community because we assume you are all simply addicts who won't complain, so you're banned because I can't get with girls unless I pay for them so I have to take out my frustration on you because I can. Oh yeah, also, even though this banning is complete malarkey, it's going onto your permanent record so we can keep building towards getting rid of you, which is all the message this banning sends anyway. Oh, and hey, give us money for premium, it's totally worth it! Whee!"

This is the same thing Dancing Mustard was told repeatedly.

Now, it wouldn't be such a big deal if that wasn't added to some PERMANENT RECORD that couldn't EVER BE ERASED OR CHANGED. If it was just, "hey, you did something risky and got burnt, here's 24 hours to rethink the links you post and make sure none contain links to stuff that is inappropriate", that'd be fine. But because it becomes this part of a permanent record that is used to justify a permanent banning, I have every right to be completely pissed off about it, just as Dancing Mustard should be. And if they'll do it to him, they'll do it to all of us.

[F1fth]

Someone please respond to this. Why do people address the guy venting, but not the guy with some genuinely good and productive ideas?

Umm, he got the ideas from the guy who is in your face while providing good and productive ideas. I'm from New Jersey, what the hell do you want? Round these parts we bond by fighting one another.

If I wanted to vent I'd have a livejournal. Instead I'm trying to get a point across to a public that has obviously deemed this thread valuable enough to take it to three pages in length. So, sir, I must respectfully say gfy, why don't you respond to it, and lets get back to the topic at hand.

No offense intended, and I humbly accept my deserved "gfy." My point was that people were choosing to respond the perceived negativity in the post, instead of the constructiveness of it and others.

[hwhrhett]

Appreciate the response. For what it's worth, I've never heard of any sentence successfully appealed within the e-ticket system. I think the ticket system is more for account issues and for general questions, not really an appeals system per se.

As for the latter, I would argue than DM has done neither of the things you listed. Sure, he's been kind of a bugger sometimes, but at its worst his behavior is an annoyance, not a serious harm to this site (while at its best contributes A LOT to this site's community).

people appeal and get reinstated through etickets often. it happens, sometimes the mods make mistakes, ive seen it happen. the reason you never hear about it, is because the only people that complain about being banned or need to post about being banned are the people that legitimately broke the rules, and can only have their side(typically a very slanted point of view) heard by making a fuss in the forum.

i can tell you this tho, i know of nobody who was reinstated because they whined about it like pimpdave.

and to you pimpdave, i understand your bust wholly. if i posted a video that was geniunely wholesome but had porno ads on the side of it, i wouldnt post it, because there is a good chance that it will cause problems for some. i mean, you didnt just post the video.... you posted a link to a website that had adult content on it, just because you wanted people to focus on one tiny part of the page, doesnt mean that people will. and frankly anything adult oriented you should just keep to yourself i think.

[pimpdave]

people appeal and get reinstated through etickets often. it happens, sometimes the mods make mistakes, ive seen it happen. the reason you never hear about it, is because the only people that complain about being banned or need to post about being banned are the people that legitimately broke the rules, and can only have their side(typically a very slanted point of view) heard by making a fuss in the forum.

i can tell you this tho, i know of nobody who was reinstated because they whined about it like pimpdave.

and to you pimpdave, i understand your bust wholly. if i posted a video that was geniunely wholesome but had porno ads on the side of it, i wouldnt post it, because there is a good chance that it will cause problems for some. i mean, you didnt just post the video.... you posted a link to a website that had adult content on it, just because you wanted people to focus on one tiny part of the page, doesnt mean that people will. and frankly anything adult oriented you should just keep to yourself i think.

And guess what you trolling fool, I ALREADY STATED THAT I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THOSE RANDOMLY GENERATED RELATED VIDEOS WOULD BE. I had no idea there would be links to videos about preventing breast cancer (because that is what they were OH THE HUMANITY)

I had never done it before, I've never done it since. I didn't need something going on my permanent record about it, and I did try to appeal to private channels, but the disgraced and removed mods, Night Strike and Twill must have seen it as an affront to their power.

That happened months ago, maybe even a year ago. But it is STILL PART OF THE PERMANENT RECORD.

There is no arguing with you. You are just part and parcel with the mods, and what will make this more interesting is when we find examples of you crossing the lines that we've all been busted for, but since your nose is so firmly planted in their rears, you've never been banned for it.

Just shut up. Either stop trolling and actually engage this thread, or shut up. I mean it. You're being a complete hypocrite otherwise, and if the mods don't ban you for 24 hours for your obvious trolling (just as DM used to do), then it simply further proves our point that this was a personal vendetta.

[Simon Viavant]

I thought this whole banning thing was supposed to be for if someone was a constant problem for the community. As I can see, very few people in the community had a problem with DM or pretty much anyone else who was permabanned, and if they did, it can be summed up in that they don't like him, which isn't a good reason for a ban. Most banned people always been appreciated by the community. They were banned because they annoyed a couple of the mods. The Community Guidelines say you'll be removed if you're constantly having a negative influence on the community. Annoying the mods probably deserves some punishment, but not a permaban.
Let's say people were complaining about DM. WHat's more important isn't the number of complaints, but the percentage. If 5 people complain about someone who has just joined and few people know the site, it should be taken more seriously than someone who gets 10 complaints but is liked by everyone else.

[pimpdave]

Let's say people were complaining about DM. WHat's more important isn't the number of complaints, but the percentage. If 5 people complain about someone who has just joined and few people know the site, it should be taken more seriously than someone who gets 10 complaints but is liked by everyone else.

Or, if they're going to have a complaint button, have a karma button too, where we can click to let people know that we appreciate and value the post, instead of only ever sending negative messages to the mods.

Of course, that's a silly compromise, the truth is, the mods should stop being so retart, and foster community rather than the divisive and toxic atmosphere they've been fostering since Twill was in charge.

Come on Hyasri, prove to us that Twill actually did leave. Prove to us that you really do mean to usher in a new time of "love and peace". Stop with the old paradigm as you claimed you would. I know you can do it. I'm sure you can. Give us a reason to have faith and we will.