NON FARMERS GUILD - Top 101

[porkenbeans]

Cheers to F.I.

max, am I a farmer? I can't tell.

You are well in to E.Q. status. I was surprised. LOL just kidding. Good going Neon.

[Iccinot Nabrus]

I acknowledge the time and effort that has gone into making this list, from the creator/s of Map Rank (I did not name him/them for I do not wish to be mistaken. Please take the time, if anyone knows, to name him/them. I think it is a very useful add-on) to Porkenbeans' hard work. I do realize that each of those names have been painstakingly researched and typed out complete with appropriate rank. Although disputes, disagreements, and donnybrooks may arise, it cannot be denied that it adds dimension to Conquerclub as a whole. I am privileged to be part of this praiseworthy pack. Thank you.

[porkenbeans]

I acknowledge the time and effort that has gone into making this list, from the creator/s of Map Rank (I did not name him/them for I do not wish to be mistaken. Please take the time, if anyone knows, to name him/them. I think it is a very useful add-on) to Porkenbeans' hard work. I do realize that each of those names have been painstakingly researched and typed out complete with appropriate rank. Although disputes, disagreements, and donnybrooks may arise, it cannot be denied that it adds dimension to Conquerclub as a whole. I am privileged to be part of this praiseworthy pack. Thank you.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=206478 -This is the man.

[porkenbeans]

E.Q. is not an easy accomplishment. Not everyone can be one. But I dare anyone to show me a Noob Farmer among these great players.

[Bruceswar]

E.Q. is not an easy accomplishment. Not everyone can be one. But I dare anyone to show me a Noob Farmer among these great players.

Great players... I think not....


82.) Col. Bruceswar

[The Neon Peon]

E.Q. is not an easy accomplishment. Not everyone can be one. But I dare anyone to show me a Noob Farmer among these great players.

I consider specializing as a form of farming, so I could point out a few.

But then again, I consider myself farming when I play doodle assassins... I pretty much got to colonel from captain in 3 hours by doing that, and most of the people there do not know how to play them well. So even though I win rate is kind of low, I gain enough points because most of the people there do not know how to block properly or begin and deploy fast enough. So also farming.

That is just my opinion, though.

Bruceswar... you are one of the best up there.

[Bruceswar]

Bruceswar... you are one of the best up there.

Not at all.. I am a noob, and most people know that...

[porkenbeans]

E.Q. is not an easy accomplishment. Not everyone can be one. But I dare anyone to show me a Noob Farmer among these great players.

I consider specializing as a form of farming, so I could point out a few.

But then again, I consider myself farming when I play doodle assassins... I pretty much got to colonel from captain in 3 hours by doing that, and most of the people there do not know how to play them well. So even though I win rate is kind of low, I gain enough points because most of the people there do not know how to block properly or begin and deploy fast enough. So also farming.

That is just my opinion, though.

Bruceswar... you are one of the best up there.

I said "NOOB" farmer.

[jarrett155]

in teh top 5

[FabledIntegral]

I don't mean to discredit Bruce nor am I saying he's a bad player - I'm merely going to point out he's another that typically wasn't a colonel for the bulk of his games and played in the same games I was in. Then he suddenly ups his games in a streak (which you can do fast via casual freestyle, I've done it, you typically win all the games around the same time but lose depending on when the other people take their turn). But the only reason you're EQ is that you were a low rank when in our games.

Once again not saying you're bad Bruce, but you were in like 50% of our games...

[porkenbeans]

I don't mean to discredit Bruce nor am I saying he's a bad player - I'm merely going to point out he's another that typically wasn't a colonel for the bulk of his games and played in the same games I was in. Then he suddenly ups his games in a streak (which you can do fast via casual freestyle, I've done it, you typically win all the games around the same time but lose depending on when the other people take their turn). But the only reason you're EQ is that you were a low rank when in our games.

Once again not saying you're bad Bruce, but you were in like 50% of our games...

C'mon Fab, Give me a break. Bruce made the list fair and square. It does not matter how, or with what kind of strategy that he employed. This list is comprised up of the top CC players that do not Noob Farm. In my opinion there are others at, or near the top that need to be on this list. Many can easily raise their RR if they would listen to what I have said. Plus Chip will undoubtedly improve on Map Rank sooner or later. This is a place for congratulating. Please take your sour grapes somewhere else.

[waseemalim]

velvecarrots??

even if u discount his 60games (550 points) against me, he is comfortably in the top 5. and account being hacked isnt the same as being a farmer?

[porkenbeans]

velvecarrots??

even if u discount his 60games (550 points) against me, he is comfortably in the top 5. and account being hacked isnt the same as being a farmer?

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. His stats are very impressive indeed. And he is 1 tick away from E.Q. status.
I hope that it will be OK with everyone if I make an executive decision here, and go ahead and include his name among these great players.

[FarangDemon]

Porkenbeans,

Excellent work, I appreciate your effort.

There is one thing you should understand, though, and BaldAdonis and I have pointed it out already, but you didn't see it. To increase one's RR it makes no difference which map you use. All maps are treated equally in this regard - they don't factor into the calculation, it is just an average of all opponent's scores.

I've noticed you are telling people that they just need to increase their RR's on one or two maps in order to bring the overall score up. But this is not true - it doesn't matter what map they play, they just need to play higher ranked opponents than they have historically been playing, regardless of map.

People could assume that because you don't understand how RR is calculated, that your basic approach is flawed. I just want to make sure any feedback or criticism is directed against the real issues of your policy and not on whether or not you understand how RR is calculated.

I'm relieved to read your statement that more competitive players ought to be included in this group. I may be joining you soon in creating my own version of what would turn out to be a more inclusive list of competitive players, but I want Chipv to change two things in map rank before I would want to do it.

In my proposed system, VelveCarrots would very likely already make the cutoff because I would use .71 as the cutoff of the rolling geometric mean RR of the last 100 opponents.

[porkenbeans]

Porkenbeans,

Excellent work, I appreciate your effort.

There is one thing you should understand, though, and BaldAdonis and I have pointed it out already, but you didn't see it. To increase one's RR it makes no difference which map you use. All maps are treated equally in this regard - they don't factor into the calculation, it is just an average of all opponent's scores.

I've noticed you are telling people that they just need to increase their RR's on one or two maps in order to bring the overall score up. But this is not true - it doesn't matter what map they play, they just need to play higher ranked opponents than they have historically been playing, regardless of map.

People could assume that because you don't understand how RR is calculated, that your basic approach is flawed. I just want to make sure any feedback or criticism is directed against the real issues of your policy and not on whether or not you understand how RR is calculated.

I'm relieved to read your statement that more competitive players ought to be included in this group. I may be joining you soon in creating my own version of what would turn out to be a more inclusive list of competitive players, but I want Chipv to change two things in map rank before I would want to do it.

In my proposed system, VelveCarrots would very likely already make the cutoff because I would use .71 as the cutoff of the rolling geometric mean RR of the last 100 opponents.

If that was done, then couldnt an N.F. get to the top and then change his ways and play 100 games against his peers ?

If that is indeed, not how Chip calculates the score, might it be a better way to do so ?
Or not. I just figured that, that was how he was doing it.
But still the advice is correct about just playing some high ranks to raise your RR. right ?

[FabledIntegral]

I don't mean to discredit Bruce nor am I saying he's a bad player - I'm merely going to point out he's another that typically wasn't a colonel for the bulk of his games and played in the same games I was in. Then he suddenly ups his games in a streak (which you can do fast via casual freestyle, I've done it, you typically win all the games around the same time but lose depending on when the other people take their turn). But the only reason you're EQ is that you were a low rank when in our games.

Once again not saying you're bad Bruce, but you were in like 50% of our games...

C'mon Fab, Give me a break. Bruce made the list fair and square. It does not matter how, or with what kind of strategy that he employed. This list is comprised up of the top CC players that do not Noob Farm. In my opinion there are others at, or near the top that need to be on this list. Many can easily raise their RR if they would listen to what I have said. Plus Chip will undoubtedly improve on Map Rank sooner or later. This is a place for congratulating. Please take your sour grapes somewhere else.

There's a difference between players that don't noob farm however and those that make this pos list. "It doesn't matter how, or with what kind of strategy he employed." Christ - you sound exactly like those of the noob farmers themselves, the exact same friggin' argument they use to defend the fact they farm. What's the difference? This entire thing by you was supposed to weed those out that use cheap tactics to up their ranks, according to you, which is playing those of lesser skilled.

I don't give a flying f*ck about improving my RR. Chip also apparently doesn't give a shit about your list because he never intended it for this use nor for "weeding out farmers," rather he made it according to him for a specific person who had a specific request they wanted to figure out.

You're just another dipshit in these forums that want to pat themselves on the back - "noob farmers" do it in the way of gaining as many points, you do it because you yourself are an EQ and think you're better than the others. You're all the fucking same.

[Fruitcake]

I don't mean to discredit Bruce nor am I saying he's a bad player - I'm merely going to point out he's another that typically wasn't a colonel for the bulk of his games and played in the same games I was in. Then he suddenly ups his games in a streak (which you can do fast via casual freestyle, I've done it, you typically win all the games around the same time but lose depending on when the other people take their turn). But the only reason you're EQ is that you were a low rank when in our games.

Once again not saying you're bad Bruce, but you were in like 50% of our games...

C'mon Fab, Give me a break. Bruce made the list fair and square. It does not matter how, or with what kind of strategy that he employed. This list is comprised up of the top CC players that do not Noob Farm. In my opinion there are others at, or near the top that need to be on this list. Many can easily raise their RR if they would listen to what I have said. Plus Chip will undoubtedly improve on Map Rank sooner or later. This is a place for congratulating. Please take your sour grapes somewhere else.

There's a difference between players that don't noob farm however and those that make this pos list. "It doesn't matter how, or with what kind of strategy he employed." Christ - you sound exactly like those of the noob farmers themselves, the exact same friggin' argument they use to defend the fact they farm. What's the difference? This entire thing by you was supposed to weed those out that use cheap tactics to up their ranks, according to you, which is playing those of lesser skilled.

I don't give a flying f*ck about improving my RR. Chip also apparently doesn't give a shit about your list because he never intended it for this use nor for "weeding out farmers," rather he made it according to him for a specific person who had a specific request they wanted to figure out.

You're just another dipshit in these forums that want to pat themselves on the back - "noob farmers" do it in the way of gaining as many points, you do it because you yourself are an EQ and think you're better than the others. You're all the fucking same.

An interesting list all the same.

You do seem to have a huge chip in your shoulder FI. Is there something we can help you with? Are there issues you aren't telling us? let them out, we are like a support group, we could openly discuss and air your problems. maybe you could find your way to the light that is this list and not feel ashamed because actually your playing style prohibits you, who knows....do try to ease up though, it pains those of us who care to see you so obviously agonising over things.

there, there now, just relax and maybe the noises in your head will go away.

[chipv]

I don't give a flying f*ck about improving my RR. Chip also apparently doesn't give a shit about your list because he never intended it for this use nor for "weeding out farmers," rather he made it according to him for a specific person who had a specific request they wanted to figure out.

You're just another dipshit in these forums that want to pat themselves on the back - "noob farmers" do it in the way of gaining as many points, you do it because you yourself are an EQ and think you're better than the others. You're all the fucking same.

I never commented on the merits of the list, come on people I am writing in plain English. My problem is having words put into my mouth that are completely incorrect and subsequent misrepresentation of Map Rank. Here you are doing the same thing except with a blizzard of expletives which may be considered 'cool' at University but the importance of being polite is a necessary lesson to learn before graduation. Some of your posts contain excellent content but are not taken seriously because you've buried the content in unnecessary swear words and general name-calling. This doesn't demand the attention that the content deserves, rather speaks more about your ability to maintain a civil debate.No doubt you will come up with a defensive reply to this perhaps a few swear words here and there but it's your call as to how your posts are received.

Having said all that this is not the real world and it is very easy on the internet to adopt an attitude you would not normally use in real life. Perhaps that is the case but again my initial point is that I was concerned at having my name misused as an alternative to constructing a decent argument. The list itself I have zero problem with.

[FarangDemon]

If that was done, then couldnt an N.F. get to the top and then change his ways and play 100 games against his peers ?

Yes it does mean that. I don't agree with putting a label on someone and excluding them forever. I just wanna know who is the best.

I know for a fact that there are many very skilled players engaged in farming. They choose to farm because it is a viable method under the current scoring system. They are practical and ambitious and many of them, I'm sure, are capable of beating high ranked EQ's should they square off.

Some of these players are bored of farming and want the challenge of playing peers - they are simply waiting for a system to reward that behavior. By computing RR across all games, these players might have to play thousands of games with their peers to get their mean RR above any cutoff simply because they have been farming to some extent for a really long time.

People talk about "true rank". If you are a colonel you will eventually make it to colonel and probably not make it to brigadier, or not make it stick. The concept here is that if you are really better than your peers, than your score will increase to a certain extent after playing them. Eventually you'll reach an equilibrium, the "true rank".

Theoretically, you can achieve your "true rank" from no matter what starting point. So it doesn't matter that a guy who got to 4000 points through farming plays 100 opponents or a guy who got to 4000 points through playing peers plays 100 opponents. Their scores after playing the 100 peer opponents will readjust to the "true rank" relative to their peers. It is possible that many of these players will not even experience a score loss. These guys deserve recognition if they can play peers and earn it.

We just need to make sure that the number we use for the rolling average is great enough to ensure a thorough "trimming" in the case of a noob farmer that really sucks against their peers. Otherwise a cycle of farming -> peer playing could be used by players to make it onto the competitive scoreboard for various lengths of time.

But still the advice is correct about just playing some high ranks to raise your RR. right ?

Yes.

But what I'm saying is, requiring someone to play 5000 peer games (for some people) is, for the reasons above, not necessary to ensure that an "inflated" farmer gets amply "deflated". I think we are looking more at something on the order of 100-1000 opponents.

[Fruitcake]

There is a slight error in the maths of number of games as far as I can make out.

If someone has an RR of less than 0.5 and starts playing members who have more than half their points (ie a 5000 point player with .0470 plays say a 2750 point member) then ultimately their RR will begin to rise again. By leaving the RR as it is allows players to evaluate their own rate of progression. I am sure there are those who can work the equations out.

To have the RR on a rolling basis will cause far more manipulation.

Example: A player shoots up the score board by farming, then once at a 4000 level, takes on those above at 4500 average points for 75 games, loses say 60 of them, loses around 1067 points for the losses, and picks up 345 points for the wins. Said player now sits within the upper reaches of Colonel level and has an RR verging on Brawler!

Taking this a stage further, how long before the cleverer farmers such as KH work out how to operate this to the maximum efficiency, my money would be on not very long at all.

there is an inherent justice in the system as it is presently. Those players who rise through the ranks normally (that is to say playing more senior points holders until a tipping point is reached where this becomes increasingly difficult) will have a high RR. Then, as they start playing ranks lower than themselves, their RR will slip. This is a normal course of events. As this player now has a rank to be invited to high rank games, they can then hold a reasonable level of RR. By showing the whole of a players history within the RR, it has and still gives a good guide as to their methodology of getting to that level.

[FarangDemon]

Thanks for coming up with those examples, now I see that 100 is definitely not enough opponents to guarantee deflation. I didn't run any equations prior to that posting, but will work it out and come back.

I really like the idea of a RR amnesty because the system would gain more legitimacy by including more players. And if we know that they are sufficiently "deflated", i see no need to exclude someone because they used to be a farmer. Of course any policy would have to prevent the potential for abuse.

[niMic]

I can't tell if I'm a farmer or not..

I do find it amusing how 'map specialization' is the new big thing, though. I like to play World 2.1, it's my favourite map, and it's hardly a map someone familiar to Risk won't understand, but I suppose playing it more than any other map (just passed Classic) is farming?

I don't like proper farmers more than anyone else (the Max-type, despise them), but some people do take it a little far I think.

[dhallmeyer]

I believe (and yes, I'm fairly new around here, but these are my obsevartions and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the difference between farming and specialization is this: farmers specialize in playing mainly new recruits, who have a higher probability of deadbeating; specializers play mainly on a few similar maps and develop strategies to win based on those maps, regardless of their opponents.

that about right?

[The Neon Peon]

I believe (and yes, I'm fairly new around here, but these are my obsevartions and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the difference between farming and specialization is this: farmers specialize in playing mainly new recruits, who have a higher probability of deadbeating; specializers play mainly on a few similar maps and develop strategies to win based on those maps, regardless of their opponents.

that about right?

I would say "no"

A farmer plays those with less experience. Such as joining games with cooks since you know you will beat them. King H is also a farmer in that he plays people without clickies in private games on a map where they are necessary.

[porkenbeans]

Thanks for coming up with those examples, now I see that 100 is definitely not enough opponents to guarantee deflation. I didn't run any equations prior to that posting, but will work it out and come back.

I really like the idea of a RR amnesty because the system would gain more legitimacy by including more players. And if we know that they are sufficiently "deflated", i see no need to exclude someone because they used to be a farmer. Of course any policy would have to prevent the potential for abuse.

I do agree with your attitude of forgiveness. They should indeed be forgiven for stealing the candy, but they should have to return the ill gotten spoils. Like maybe a certain % of their points, in direct correlation to their RR, would work. This way they would most likely loose a rank or 2, but they would not have to go all the way back to cook. I would go along with the idea of amnesty, and I do not want to punish them per say. I would welcome them back from the dark side with open arms.
I can not wait to see what the new changes will be. I am truly excited at the prospect of getting to compete on an even playing field. I hope that some kind of measures will also be taken to thwart multies. It would be nice to again play more multi-player games.
On one more note about Max. I do not want to gloat in this open forum. But, I must say, This is a very good day at CC. There is, I believe, a light beginning to form at the end of the tunnel. And a brighter day is just ahead for all CC fans.