Thota vs BpB - the final chapter

[Robinette]

So what is the story with Thota vs the BulletProofBandits?

The thread has been locked for 2 weeks,
but the title has been updated a few times, currently listed as:
[CC2]-THOTA vs. BPB [20-17 of 41]

So i assume there are 4 games to go.. and the Bandits would need all 4 to actually win.

Now i am very new to all this clan warfare stuff, this in fact was the 1st thread of it's kind i had ever followed.
I mentioned earlier that i found it all to be most fascinating.. and i was particularly intrigued by the personality of the 2 clans in that thread... i am soooo disappointed that it was locked and has remained locked for 2 weeks, possibly forever? or at least until the challenge itself is over?

Why would that be? Thota is sure to win. Wouldn't they be happy to post "in your face" in that thread?

Or is it that this is an embarrassingly close victory? my prior impression was that this would have been a rout... That Thota would have dominated and destroyed them...

so what gives? are the Bandits really THAT GOOD? or is Thota that weak without Blitz?
Or were my prior impressions all wrong? and for how long?
In the most basic sense, i had assumed Thota was THE dominate (and maybe even undefeated) clan,
while the Bandits were nothing more than a social clan...
Evidently, my prior assumptions were far from accurate.

So the Bandits are good enough to come that close to beating the best clan,
or is there a stronger clan than Thota?

in any case... I really enjoyed the difference between the two...

It was like the disciplined Roman Army meeting the wild warriors of Boudicca...
or the dignified British Army defending against the guerrilla warfare tactics of the American Colonists...

[lord voldemort]

llong story short...blitz is great...thota is a good clan...though arguably not the best anymore

and bpb have the best double team on this site

[jefjef]

That thread was locked for unsportsmanlike baiting. It did go a bit over and it's probably best that it doesn't get opened.

[Commander62890]

Or is it that this is an embarrassingly close victory? my prior impression was that this would have been a rout... That Thota would have dominated and destroyed them...

so what gives? are the Bandits really THAT GOOD? or is Thota that weak without Blitz?
Or were my prior impressions all wrong? and for how long?
In the most basic sense, i had assumed Thota was THE dominate (and maybe even undefeated) clan,
while the Bandits were nothing more than a social clan...
Evidently, my prior assumptions were far from accurate.

So the Bandits are good enough to come that close to beating the best clan,
or is there a stronger clan than Thota?

First of all, many people would agree that any of the top 4-5 clans could beat each other on any given day. Most of the next 10 clans could probably win 1 out of every 3 series, or at least 1 out of every 4. The thing about THOTA is that even though a lot of us know it's mostly luck that decides series when the best play the best, THOTA was somehow able to do it many times. For me, the old untarnished record almost defied logic; if it's mostly luck, then how did THOTA win every time? After a while, one has to face the fact that he may be wrong and it may not be all luck at the top... anyway, that was all before Nemesis and KoRT. I don't know exactly what the final score will be in this one, but I doubt it will hurt as much as the Nemesis win or the KoRT loss did. THOTA isn't really the clear #1 any more - sure, one can make a case for it, but it isn't going to be clear-cut.

As for BPB, they like to say that they are still a social clan, but they have some very good players. That is not news for the clan world. Didn't BPB finish in second place or something in Season 2? They had to have been ranked in the top 10 after that. They performed poorly in Season 3, which is why they were ranked so low in CC2. I suspect they'll get a slight bump after a nice performance against THOTA.

In conclusion, I'd say the war improved BPB's image a bit; well, at least with regard to their gameplay.
It may have lowered THOTA's a bit, but after the recent loss to KoRT, it was already low enough to make little difference. Either way, the final score will be insignificant enough to warrant far less attention (for THOTA) than did the Nemesis win or (especially) the KoRT loss. THOTA will move on; BPB has put up a damn good fight and should probably be ranked 2-3 slots higher than 16. That's pretty much all I can say about the actual gameplay. There will be far more legacies set by the THOTA-BPB thread than by the final score.

P.S. yes, Robin, THOTA was missing Blitz and I.
Additionally, Inc missed the first batch; he then came back for the second batch and went 4-0 with 1 game still active.
Those missing players may have been a factor in the outcome, but I wouldn't have mentioned that if you didn't bring it up.
It can sometimes come off as rude to tell your opponent you would have beat them even worse if you had your full team.

P.P.S. my last thought was that one could make the exact opposite argument that Robinette did; that THOTA did not play below expectations. But, in that case, one would have to have very low expectations. Mine were not that low... yet they were not nearly as high as Robinette's.

[Mr Changsha]

Well now that the war is basically over we can all be reasonably chummy again. That thread was pure theatre, I for one have no real animosity towards THOTA, or Blitz, or really anyone in the CC world. Should the thread have stayed open? Well from my point of view I had pretty much run out of material, so I was quite pleased to get a free pass to laziness.

How good are the BpB? We have some top players (and teams), but lack depth. Our top teams have to play too many games over even a reasonably long challenge and will always struggle in 40+ game series. The CLA should suit us...I don't know what happened in CLA 3 (I wasn't around), but I think we probably weren't at full-strength...and if we are all in-form for CLA 4 we could go on a run again. I would place us overall in the top 10. I think we have our fair share of top, top players (more than others outside of the top 5) but lack enough colonel-level players (like me) to challenge teams like Thota properly.

Well that's my view anyway...not the official bandit line to take I am sure.

Remember that bandits aren't chosen primarily for their playing-ability, though we have been going more in this direction of late. We like writers, thinkers and humourists. I think we do very well considering that we are the kind of clan that sees the inclusion of Robinette as far more important than finding more players for competitive purposes.

As a whole I think we are continuously torn between being the quite unique clan that we are (and really...there is nothing else like us) and actually trying to challenge to become a top 5 competitive clan. But to do so would almost certainly lead to us becoming 'just another clan' (if a more successful one) and therefore the general consensus is, at least for now, to leave well alone.

Finally, the bpb has always been perfect home for me....and not just in a posting-sense. In a gaming-sense as well I'm much happier being a reasonably crucial part of the bandits line-up, than a bit-part player for an LOW or THOTA.

[Great-Ollie]

Well i know that the war thread between Thota and BPB was crazy! As for the game play, i was i little disappointed in THOTA for sure. I think they may be slipping a little with all the drama that they have encountered this last year. It would be hard to stay on top, and my hat is off to all THOTA players. In my opinion i think the clans are getting stronger in general, so don't be surprised to see a new number 1 soon. I too was dismissed from a top level clan early in my CC life. I am glad I was now that i have the best group of guys in my clan. We have a lot of fun, enjoy kicking ass, and compete at the highest level. Our goal is one day to be considered by THOTA for a challenge. So the recent close battles and losses by THOTA make this a more realistic option one day i hope. BPB have some great guys but i do not think they belong in the same context as THOTA, just my opinion.

[Mr Changsha]

Well i know that the war thread between Thota and BPB was crazy! As for the game play, i was i little disappointed in THOTA for sure. I think they may be slipping a little with all the drama that they have encountered this last year. It would be hard to stay on top, and my hat is off to all THOTA players. In my opinion i think the clans are getting stronger in general, so don't be surprised to see a new number 1 soon. I too was dismissed from a top level clan early in my CC life. I am glad I was now that i have the best group of guys in my clan. We have a lot of fun, enjoy kicking ass, and compete at the highest level. Our goal is one day to be considered by THOTA for a challenge. So the recent close battles and losses by THOTA make this a more realistic option one day i hope. BPB have some great guys but i do not think they belong in the same context as THOTA, just my opinion.

While I would happily admit Thota are stronger than the BpB, this competition has shown that if we get our collective arses together we are perfectly capable of beating them over a 41 game challenge. However, and i would say quite wonderfully, the BpB arses aren't always in gear.

To say we don't belong in the same 'context' is simply innaccurate. To use a footie analogy if I may, Thota are a top 4 champions league side, the bandits are something of a challenging for the top 10 (maybe a cup run) kind of team. We aren't at their level...but we aren't exactly a million miles away either. A couple of 'big signings' and we could really challenge them..we aren't that far off...and I doubt any members of Thota would say the bandits aren't a strong clan.

Finally, any clan that has fruitcake, mojo, the spaniards (+ assorted others) is always going to be dangerous. We have very strong dubs, trips and quads teams and are plently strong enough to challenge for the CLA in a serious way again. Our lack of depth is to some extend exposed by larger challenges (though we still did rather well in this cup), but the bandits are perfectly capable of winning the CLA (as are a number of other clans of course).

Don't suppose that just because we are a bunch of mad writers that we somehow can't play a bit too. We can do both...and this has been proven, not just in this cup, but also in CLA 2.

[Master Fenrir]

Thota is sure to win. Wouldn't they be happy to post "in your face" in that thread?

I mean no offense, but "in your face posts" from a 1st seed clan to a 16th seed clan would appear a bit sad. If the BpB were a top 5 clan, I could see that happening, but beating anything less and the 1st seed clan needs to act like it's just business as usual to keep up appearances.

Or is it that this is an embarrassingly close victory? my prior impression was that this would have been a rout... That Thota would have dominated and destroyed them...

Nah. People remember who won and the war threads themselves, but the margin of victory or defeat, unless extraordinary, is pretty much forgotten in a month. That thread will probably never be forgotten, though.

so what gives? are the Bandits really THAT GOOD? or is Thota that weak without Blitz?
while the Bandits were nothing more than a social clan...

This is a contradiction that is kinda hard to reconcile. The BpB are good. I played against them in CL2 and have played several games against the BpB quads teams in tourneys and random pub games, and they have always been very tough, very enjoyable battles. Despite your clan's presence in the forums, I consider the BpB a competitive clan, and I think that everybody else does as well. Saying that the BpB are a social clan seems like it would set the bar low, but nobody believes that the bar is that low in the first place, so it's a false expectation. I don't think the fact that you were able to put up a respectable showing against Thota comes as a surprise to anybody.

[General Mojo]

A lot of it also has to do with what other things some of the BpP members have on their plates while a particular challenge is ongoing. For example, I have spent the last six weeks largely in a drunken stupor, so I certainly haven't been much of an asset recently (except on the forums obviously).

I think Mr. C speaks the truth in that we don't lack in the talent category but rather in the depth department. Plus, lets face it...we simply don't care as much as certain other folks around here about random imaginary internet wars.

I wonder how long before they lock this thread, btw...

[Fruitcake]

Personally I cannot imagine what has been going on, what with being away. I did wonder why the challenge thread was locked completely.

Then received this just before I left so I think I kind of get the picture now.

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/movie ... 6ef11.html

[JoshyBoy]

I for one, was very disappointed when that thread was locked, as it was one of the best threads Conquer Club has ever seen. Sad to see the mods doing their usual and just leaving it locked, with false promises of unlocking it when the issues had been resolved. It would take a day or two to resolve all the issues if the mods got their collective finger out, but somehow it remains locked.

[keyborn]

If things don't change drastically, its looking like THOTA will win the last four games of this challenge. That will make the final score 24-17 THOTA.


EDIT: I want to be the first to congratulate BPB on a great challenge. Your clan played well and made every game very tough.

[laughingcavalier]

A 24-17 scoreline may be flattering to the bandits. Oftentimes a number 1 seed will not be 100% focused on a game against a 16 seed.
Bandits are probably happy to have won the flame wars this time round.
Having said that there are some very good players in the bandits. I'm not sure how much effort they put into all the boring stuff that goes into being a "top clan" like choosing the best games & teams, making sure not to miss turns... You've got to at least make an attempt at all that stuff if you want to beat a THOTA or a KORT. o

[Mr Changsha]

A lot of it also has to do with what other things some of the BpP members have on their plates while a particular challenge is ongoing. Plus, lets face it...we simply don't care as much as certain other folks around here about random imaginary internet wars.

It is certainly true that most of us are married, have kids, jobs, busy lives..etc etc.

A 24-17 scoreline may be flattering to the bandits. Oftentimes a number 1 seed will not be 100% focused on a game against a 16 seed.

I would just point out that few match-ups will excite the CC community more than the bandits vs. thota. It is fine to claim we aren't all that strong, organised etc etc, but you might want to consider that we manage to maintain a strong presence and reputation without having to bother ourselves with actually playing all that many games. There is a reason for that, you know? It is because the clan is full of some very bright people indeed.

Also, that 16th seed is basically a slap for our refusal to play one-off clan challenges. The idea that we are actually the 16th strongest clan (in terms of actual ability) is ludicrous. The BpB made the finals of CLA 2...that wasn't a fluke.

I would happily admit that in terms of ability we are outside the top 5. No issue with that. Your clan, for instance, is stronger. But we are comfortably a top 10 clan with regards to talent. I suppose one can make the claim that all talent and no results = all mouth and no trousers. But I point you to CLA 2. We are quite capable of doing well in CLA 4 as well.

One of the issues is depth. I can't understand why challenges need to be over so many games. 61? 81? We have lives...as a clan we can't handle that many games. But it is bloody ridiculous to base a clan's strength on how many games they can fill. One needs to look at the win percentages of the individual players.

I'll give you an example:

Imaginary Clan A has 40 members (active) average ability around lieutenant.

Imaginary Clan B has 15 members (active) average ability around decent-major.

Clan A challenges Clan B to a 101 game challenge.

I'd put my money on Clan A. But wouldn't mean they are the stronger clan. Over a 41 game challenge Clan B would whip them.

[squishyg]

Bandits do not do well at things that reek of effort.