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owenshooter wrote:sometimes they roll off the edge of my laptop and i have to have to have lack make an official call, as to whether i get a re-roll or just get what they landed on... oh, and my kid swallowed one, once... but he pooped out a 6, and i took that instead of a re-roll... true stories.-0
Twill wrote:Owen, that was one of the few funny posts you've ever made - I actually smiled this time
owenshooter wrote:sometimes they roll off the edge of my laptop and i have to have to have lack make an official call, as to whether i get a re-roll or just get what they landed on... oh, and my kid swallowed one, once... but he pooped out a 6, and i took that instead of a re-roll... true stories.-0
-ShadySoul- wrote:owenshooter wrote:sometimes they roll off the edge of my laptop and i have to have to have lack make an official call, as to whether i get a re-roll or just get what they landed on... oh, and my kid swallowed one, once... but he pooped out a 6, and i took that instead of a re-roll... true stories.-0
that was good
Twill wrote:They are still random
Twill wrote:Owen, that was one of the few funny posts you've ever made - I actually smiled this time
and moo-lol, we run out about ever 17 hours or so.
Our dice file holds 500,000 unique rolls, right now we are averaging over 800,000 rolls a day I think.
when they run out, they cycle over again.
They are still random
Bean_ wrote:This is bad.
If they cycle over, this is a definitive admission that the dice are obviously not random. This is actually somewhat disconcerting. There is a systemic bias in the dice (i.e., the outcomes will not match the exact probabilities that they should, and there are never "new" dice that are, a priori, random). Also, in theory someone who auto attacks 10,000 on 10,000 might be able to get a significant portion of the dice sequence and use it for later. (Yes -- it isn't easy to game the system that way, but that's how people win at blackjack, in essence.)
Twill wrote:
Without saying too much about how the system works...it doesn't work that way
The dice file is random, thus meaning that if we cycle over it is still random...it's just the same random random numbers over again.
It is also impossible to predict/reserve which number you are getting, even if you had access to the file and a millisecond timer and trigger finger (there are what, 10 dice rolls ever second?).
The system doesn't just "cycle through" the numbers. there is a bit more randomness added in and the randomness which is added in is in fact based on randomness pulled from a random source. (that makes it several layers of random deep I think)
Aaaaaaaand, the dice file is replaced from time to time just to keep things interesting and add more randomness to the system.
Hope that puts your mind at ease there a bit
Have a good one
Twill
Bean_ wrote:I don't know the details of the algorithm.
Bean_ wrote:I actually don't think so. It's very important that there be die roll independence from roll to roll. A 3v1 attack should always win approximately 65.97% of the time. That is not the same as having it be that way 98% of the time, but the 2% of the time that one is down to the last 10,000 lines, it could be anywhere from 62% to 68% depending on how the first 490,000 lines went.
In fact, if lines are really being crossed off and ineligible for a roll, that could account for some of the wildness that is being reported anecdotally. It's very easy for this to happen if someone makes rolls when the system is down to the last 1,000 rolls or so.
I don't know the details of the algorithm. The only real right way to do it is to take the die rolls once, and not reuse them. Recycling them linearly once or twice might be okay (though not perfectly random). CC shouldn't use an algorithm that by design generates black swan events, which really do ruin games if they happen more often than they should by true randomness.
iamkoolerthanu wrote:Bean, if I understand correctly, you are saying that if I take a bunch of number, pick them randomly, and then re-use tose same numbers, they are no longer random. In reality, they are. If I take 6 numbers and put them on a dice, it is 1-6. Now if I roll that dice, it is random. If I re-roll that dice, it is just as random. If I roll it 5 more times, then roll it again, it is still completely random.
Now, what you were saying before about the numbers being 'corssed off', than that would no longer be random, you are correct on that. Because if I took that dice and rolled a 5, then I no longer could roll a 5 again untill the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 were rolled, than that was not random anymore.
I'm not sure which one you are trying to get across, because form post to post your opinion seemd to change.(to me at least. )
And I hope that the usage of smaller numbers would be easier to understand for some people, because it definately(spell) helped me out.
Twill wrote:Bean_ wrote:This is bad.
If they cycle over, this is a definitive admission that the dice are obviously not random. This is actually somewhat disconcerting. There is a systemic bias in the dice (i.e., the outcomes will not match the exact probabilities that they should, and there are never "new" dice that are, a priori, random). Also, in theory someone who auto attacks 10,000 on 10,000 might be able to get a significant portion of the dice sequence and use it for later. (Yes -- it isn't easy to game the system that way, but that's how people win at blackjack, in essence.)
Without saying too much about how the system works...it doesn't work that way
The dice file is random, thus meaning that if we cycle over it is still random...it's just the same random random numbers over again.
It is also impossible to predict/reserve which number you are getting, even if you had access to the file and a millisecond timer and trigger finger (there are what, 10 dice rolls ever second?).
The system doesn't just "cycle through" the numbers. there is a bit more randomness added in and the randomness which is added in is in fact based on randomness pulled from a random source. (that makes it several layers of random deep I think)
Aaaaaaaand, the dice file is replaced from time to time just to keep things interesting and add more randomness to the system.
Hope that puts your mind at ease there a bit
Have a good one
Twill
fireedud wrote:There is more randomness than you think there is, not every time somebody attacks, 5 dice are used. Also, the dice may be broken up.
Lets say several people click the attack button within the same nanosecond( remember, it's almost impossible for something to be simultaneous). Then the first computer to connect to the server starts getting the dice it needs, but is interrupted by another computer, which in turn is interrupted by a third computer, etc.
iamkoolerthanu wrote:fireedud wrote:There is more randomness than you think there is, not every time somebody attacks, 5 dice are used. Also, the dice may be broken up.
Lets say several people click the attack button within the same nanosecond( remember, it's almost impossible for something to be simultaneous). Then the first computer to connect to the server starts getting the dice it needs, but is interrupted by another computer, which in turn is interrupted by a third computer, etc.
That is very true, and something I didn't even think of. Lol.
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