Open letter to Lack, Twill and Andy

[barterer2002]

Dear Lack, Twill and Andy

I tried to send you a private PM yesterday but you ignored it so I'm turning to the next place-here.

Let me start by saying that I love Conquer Club. I enjoy playing most of the maps, love seeing what the foundry is going to turn out next and jumping in for 3-4 games every time a new map comes out. I enjoy the G1 forums particuarly those times when I can't keep up with the posts because there are so many coming at once. I enjoy running tournaments and meeting people from all over the world.

That being said, I'm very disappointed in the things that have happened over the past week. Its not even so much the things that have happened. Servers crash, I think everyone understands that. Lawsuits can cause changes and I think that everyone who has a reasonable perspective can understand that as well. The thing that has bothered me though is the lack of communication on where we're going from here.

We don't have a CC forum for G1 (as well as numerous other forums such as whatever you're calling Off Topic these days) which sucks and takes at least half my enjoyment from the site. Probably more. Worse than that though, there has been absolutely no word from anyone on how long this is going to continue. If you don't know you need to let us know that and let us know that you're at least working on it. From what I can see you're not.

The handling of the Classic and Middle Earth maps has been a fiasco. I totally understand that you needed to pull down the existing maps and that you threw up something temporary in the meantime. There needed to be an announcement thread on this. Yes there was something on the home page. However taking every discussion that was started on this and throwing it into one unmanageable poorly named thread in the Q&A subforum was not a good idea. There was enough speculating and accusations going on in there that there needed to be a definative thread about why this happened and where CC is going from here that people could be pointed to. Twill, I know you posted a couple times in there but lets be honest, those posts are now lost under the tide of unhappy customers that are coming in.

To date there has been no confirmation as to why the maps had to be taken down because of actions by Hasbro. That's certainly the rumor and expectation of the CC community but none of the Admin staff have confirmed it and one of you needs to either confirm it or correct that impression.

The Map Foundry has been consistently told that they're going to have to make new maps but that they can't make new maps because nobody knows what the parameters are going to be. This needs to be cleared up.

The focus has been on the Classic Map but the Middle Earth/Centerscape map needs to be addressed too. It is much less clear as to why this has been taken down although the speculation is that its too similar to Hasbro's LOTR risk version. There is no clear ideas as to what can and can't be done to fix/replace the current lucky charms version.

The idea yesterday to put a vote up for an hour as to which of the two "classic" maps to go with was a joke. Going with both of them was the right decision in the end but the idea that we're going to put a poll up for an hour, and an hour when many people aren't around but are working or in class or where ever was a pretty poor decision.

So here's what I'm asking for.

I would like to see you have a locked thread in the announcements forum that one of you will update daily telling us what's going on and what we can expect moving forward. I'd like to know how long we're looking at for a forum return (days, weeks, months, never?)
I'd like to know the official reason that the Classic and Middle Earth maps were removed. This may be a confirmation of the general wisdom and may not be.
I'd like to know what the process going forward for Classic and Middle Earth is.

that's fairly simple and, to my mind at least, not unreasonable.

People are passionate about things they care about and only want to make it better. Most of us want to see CC succeed and are reasonable folks so stop hiding from us and talk to us. You've already cost the CC community two of its best members (RJbeals and Optimus Prime)and if you think that quality people like that are easily replaced you're sadly mistaken.

Sincerely
Bryan Ellis
aka barterer2002

[OliverFA]

May I sign the post with you, barterer2002?

And let me summarize it in one sentence: "Communication with your customers."

[MOBAJOBG]

(^allow me to continue^)..."is the gold standard".

[jpcloet]

I very much agree with Bart and have sent him my thoughts and comments via pm. There are several players looking to step up and help the site. Please allow these players to make some positive changes and give them the necessary control/powers to do so. I would completely support Bart. If the management team is so overwhelmed with tickets etc., I'm sure you could find some solid trustworthy volunteers to help out, even if it's only temporary to ease said team's workload.

[clapper011]

OP has not left due to "troubles" here on cc. He left for personal reasons. Nothing to do with the site or any changes.

[barterer2002]

OP has not left due to "troubles" here on cc. He left for personal reasons. Nothing to do with the site or any changes.

Optimus did not leave Team CC due to the changes that is true. He was clearly moving make to becoming a tournament organizer and had several tournaments in sign ups. When the ridiculous poll came out for an hour the other day he announced that he wasn't starting any more tourney, was going to finish off what he had and would be just hanging out in the forums. He cancelled three tournaments that were in sign ups in protest including the one that he'd started in support of the new classic map. Here they are

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=66740
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=67026
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=66239

He's too good a person and too responsible to just abandon those that have already started so he'll be around to finish them off and I for one hope that he gets over his disgust and comes back to organizing but these cancellations had nothing to do with his personal time and everything to do with the way Admin has been handling things.

[pimpdave]

Dear Lack, Twill and Andy


So here's what I'm asking for.

I would like to see you have a locked thread in the announcements forum that one of you will update daily telling us what's going on and what we can expect moving forward. I'd like to know how long we're looking at for a forum return (days, weeks, months, never?)
I'd like to know the official reason that the Classic and Middle Earth maps were removed. This may be a confirmation of the general wisdom and may not be.
I'd like to know what the process going forward for Classic and Middle Earth is.

that's fairly simple and, to my mind at least, not unreasonable.

People are passionate about things they care about and only want to make it better. Most of us want to see CC succeed and are reasonable folks so stop hiding from us and talk to us. You've already cost the CC community two of its best members (RJbeals and Optimus Prime)and if you think that quality people like that are easily replaced you're sadly mistaken.

Sincerely
Bryan Ellis
aka barterer2002

Okay, I'm going to try to be nice. I'm really going to try. But honestly, what's up dude? Are you huffing gas? Or just markers and model airplane glue?

Daily updates? I don't even have to do that with my BOSS. Weekly updates if that. And I get paid an awful lot more than $25 a year in order provide such updates.

Demanding that rumors get straightened out? That's really up to the person or entity about which the rumors are circulating. Let's say I started a rumor about you, but you had no problem with it (let's assume it's a positive rumor, to keep the analogy simple). Would it honestly be necessary for either you or me to correct the rumor? It is Conquer Club's prerogative, and Conquer Club's alone, as to whether or not to settle rumors about itself. If the rumors themselves are part of the planning involved in the objective they are pursuing, then for them to subvert that just so your little feelings are assuaged is tantamount to CC suicide. Meaning, we don't know what's at stake here, and we're only seeing one piece of the play.

I know it's condescending of me to assume that you are young, but maybe you're just inexperienced in life. So I'll try to give you a little help. Dude, you're never going to know the whole story about anything. When you start dating, you'll learn this. When you dump a girl and try to let her down easy, you won't tell her all the reasons why you can't stand her or her 5,000 cats. And if you get dumped, you won't hear the truth. It is this kind of uncertainty in life that you must learn to accept, if not embrace.

And hey, I'd like to know the official reason why the maps were dumped too. But there's a lot of things I'd like to know, and I've learned in life that one of two things will happen A) it'll all come out in the wash eventually or B) it's so trivial and inconsequential to the spinning of the planet on it's axis that eventually I will come to grips with it's (and my own) insignificance in the universe and will then be able to pursue true happiness.


So, in conclusion, SIMMA DOWN NOW. This is a small, independent company that provides a strikingly awesome product for a bargain price. In doing so, and in doing their best to provide it, they run into problems that beset many small independent companies (especially those run by what medical professionals call "youths").

I could blithely say here that you should just try running a company yourself and maybe that'd give you some perspective [CUE SFX: Hot Air Being Blown Out of Whistle], but instead I'll appeal to your better nature and just say, "Dude, if you can put yourself in their shoes, wouldn't you really appreciate some patience and support?"

Daily updates. Man, that got me laughing out loud. That sounds like something Queeg would demand (don't be like Queeg, dude):



If they put all that time into keeping you informed of their struggles, setbacks, and perhaps days of no progress whatsoever, when are they ever going to get anything done? Or, if it's just something quick and thoughtless, that will attract even FURTHER derision and complaint from you and yours.

Just chill out. Take a few deep breaths. Try to remember what this site really is, instead of focusing on what it isn't. Hell, do that with most things in life. I think you'll find yourself generally happier and more content.

That is all.

[Nephilim]

dave, you are an ignorant douchebag and you need to stfu. barterer is trying to make something positive happen for this website in one of its darkest hours. quite obviously to almost everyone but you, he is expressing the true thoughts of many CC diehards.....and we are customers with every right to express our opinions on the current state of things. only a childish fool would post like you did. leave the conversation to the grown ups until you have something to contribute. pm me your ideas for a post and i'll let you know if it passes muster, you fucking tool

barterer, you're right on. this whole thing is a fucking shammockery. lack and twill, get yer heads out of yer asses and let us know what's up. i have no clue how to run anything computer related and yet i swear to god i will start a rebellion and completely eclipse your website with one of my own. it won't be hard--all the work here is done by volunteers. and as much as i can be a dickhead, i at least know the value of open communication and respect. get a fucking clue, for real


PS: i am slightly drunk and reserve the right to take all this shit back. except for the stuff about that ignorant twat anti-pimp dave

[Hath]

You offer advice by flaming.

Because that always works. People like you just don't understand pimpdave.

You have no idea who barterer is, what his life experience have been, etc...

Yet you choose to make faulty assumptions to make your point. That's just downright low. I think you owe and apology. One that he'll probably never get because you're too arrogant to admit you were wrong. Your argument maybe isn't wrong, but the way you made it? That's just being unnecessarily mean. That was totally uncalled for, and an example of one of the reasons I hate reading these forums.

Now to avoid getting too off topic...Daily updates would be nice, but I think it is somewhat unreasonable. However they should be more often than uh...the about never it is now. The only time I see anything about what's going on its after something went wrong (Server outtages, etc.) Would be nice to not be completely in the dark about what's going on...

Other than that...I really have no qualms about the way the site is being run... I try not to expect too much from a basically ($2.00 a month is nothing) free service.

[jiminski]

OP has not left due to "troubles" here on cc. He left for personal reasons. Nothing to do with the site or any changes.

Optimus did not leave Team CC due to the changes that is true. He was clearly moving make to becoming a tournament organizer and had several tournaments in sign ups. When the ridiculous poll came out for an hour the other day he announced that he wasn't starting any more tourney, was going to finish off what he had and would be just hanging out in the forums. He cancelled three tournaments that were in sign ups in protest including the one that he'd started in support of the new classic map. Here they are

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=66740
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=67026
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=66239

He's too good a person and too responsible to just abandon those that have already started so he'll be around to finish them off and I for one hope that he gets over his disgust and comes back to organizing but these cancellations had nothing to do with his personal time and everything to do with the way Admin has been handling things.

I noticed that too .. you can't much argue with the conclusion bart came to.

This must be a tough time for Lack and it looks as though he may have been advised to make no official statement on the matter. I think this could surely be handled better though! no?
This is the perfect case of something, anything being better than nothing! Nothing is what we have at present.

Come and tell us we are all beautiful and you love us Lackattack! To avoid legal issues, use the following code:

Code (Real Meaning in Brackets)

Hello Site (What a Shit Week)
I hope you are all still enjoying Gaming here (Next Week will be Shit too)
You Really are very important to me and the site (Please Please shut up about the Classic map)
We are working tirelessly to maintain and improve your experience all the time (We are screwed and Hasbro has my tiny turtle nuts in a vice!)
Please bear with us and with me, (This shit really isn't worth it)
one day I hope to be able to explain the situation (I will never be able to explain the situation)
but for the moment I am unable. (I really don't give a tiny rats-arse about your map, this is my frigging life here)
Thanks for your patience (Please shut up about the maps)
Lack (All weeks for the foreseeable future will also be Shit)

[pimpdave]

You offer advice by flaming.

I wasn't flaming, I was attempting to understand the impetus behind the work of literary genius contained in the OP. Then I presented a possible alternate response to the one exhibited by the OP, one in which there was far less histrionics, crying, gnashing of teeth, and pounding of fists and feet upon the ground.

You have no idea who barterer is, what his life experience have been, etc...

No, but I know how he reacts to adversity and minor disruptions, all of which underscore at the very least, an emotional/maturity level of a child.

And then sending in his goons to flame me just for speaking the truth in love? Just underscores my point even further. Thank you Hath, you hath substantiated my claims.

Well, kiddies, keep whining, it just might actually leave you self-fulfilled and happy someday!

[hwhrhett]

i think that temporary forums and some of the forum issues definately could have been remedied faster, however about whatever made them take the classic and lotr maps down, have any of you considered that they legally may not be able to tell us without hurting themselves and cc in the process? it obviously had to happen in a hurry, so........

[pimpdave]

dave, you are an ignorant douchebag and you need to stfu. barterer is trying to make something positive happen for this website in one of its darkest hours. quite obviously to almost everyone but you, he is expressing the true thoughts of many CC diehards.....and we are customers with every right to express our opinions on the current state of things. only a childish fool would post like you did. leave the conversation to the grown ups until you have something to contribute. pm me your ideas for a post and i'll let you know if it passes muster, you fucking tool

barterer, you're right on. this whole thing is a fucking shammockery. lack and twill, get yer heads out of yer asses and let us know what's up. i have no clue how to run anything computer related and yet i swear to god i will start a rebellion and completely eclipse your website with one of my own. it won't be hard--all the work here is done by volunteers. and as much as i can be a dickhead, i at least know the value of open communication and respect. get a fucking clue, for real


PS: i am slightly drunk and reserve the right to take all this shit back. except for the stuff about that ignorant twat anti-pimp dave

Quoted to prevent you from taking anything back. This post is full of WIN, including the classic "Drunk Defense"


"But Judge, I was drunk when I committed that vehicular homicide!"

"Oh. Why didn't you just say so?"

[Nephilim]

dave, you are an ignorant douchebag and you need to stfu. barterer is trying to make something positive happen for this website in one of its darkest hours. quite obviously to almost everyone but you, he is expressing the true thoughts of many CC diehards.....and we are customers with every right to express our opinions on the current state of things. only a childish fool would post like you did. leave the conversation to the grown ups until you have something to contribute. pm me your ideas for a post and i'll let you know if it passes muster, you fucking tool

barterer, you're right on. this whole thing is a fucking shammockery. lack and twill, get yer heads out of yer asses and let us know what's up. i have no clue how to run anything computer related and yet i swear to god i will start a rebellion and completely eclipse your website with one of my own. it won't be hard--all the work here is done by volunteers. and as much as i can be a dickhead, i at least know the value of open communication and respect. get a fucking clue, for real


PS: i am slightly drunk and reserve the right to take all this shit back. except for the stuff about that ignorant twat anti-pimp dave

Quoted to prevent you from taking anything back. This post is full of WIN, including the classic "Drunk Defense"


"But Judge, I was drunk when I committed that vehicular homicide!"

"Oh. Why didn't you just say so?"

weakest response ever, and highly offensive to anyone who has lost a friend to a drunk driver.

[Nephilim]

This must be a tough time for Lack and it looks as though he may have been advised to make no official statement on the matter. I think this could surely be handled better though! no?
This is the perfect case of something, anything being better than nothing! Nothing is what we have at present.

Come and tell us we are all beautiful and you love us Lackattack! To avoid legal issues, use the following code:

Code (Real Meaning in Brackets)

Hello Site (What a Shit Week)
I hope you are all still enjoying Gaming here (Next Week will be Shit too)
You Really are very important to me and the site (Please Please shut up about the Classic map)
We are working tirelessly to maintain and improve your experience all the time (We are screwed and Hasbro has my tiny turtle nuts in a vice!)
Please bear with us and with me, (This shit really isn't worth it)
one day I hope to be able to explain the situation (I will never be able to explain the situation)
but for the moment I am unable. (I really don't give a tiny rats-arse about your map, this is my frigging life here)
Thanks for your patience (Please shut up about the maps)
Lack (All weeks for the foreseeable future will also be Shit)

post of the year!

[pimpdave]

Quoted to prevent you from taking anything back. This post is full of WIN, including the classic "Drunk Defense"


"But Judge, I was drunk when I committed that vehicular homicide!"

"Oh. Why didn't you just say so?"

weakest response ever, and highly offensive to anyone who has lost a friend to a drunk driver.

Yes genius, because the Judge's response is considered in favor of the drunk driver in this instance? Me thinks not, MENSA-man. Look at the context and obvious sarcasm in the first line about the post being full of WIN.

Clearly, the sentence would be MORE harsh for the drunk driver. You keep assuming you receive automatic absolution for your drunken ranting and that leads you to extrapolate in the completely OPPOSITE direction of where the train of thought was obviously leading.

Which, to get back on topic, just further underscores the real issue here. (And this is for the OP as well) It is not an issue with CC and not telling you enough or whatever it is you want to hear. The issue is YOU. So, learn to cope. Drop it. Move on. Whatever you have to do, but complaining ad nauseum as both an OUTSIDER and someone UNABLE TO PROVIDE ANY SERVICE OR AID TO THE SITUATION amounts to accomplishing nothing at best, and creating damage at worst.

Suggesting daily status reports doesn't make the site any better, as Hath even pointed out.

So please, beat this dead horse some more. Because I'm enjoying watching you get all sweaty and tired accomplishing something with your time.

[black elk speaks]

Okay, I'm going to try to be nice. I'm really going to try. But honestly, what's up dude? Are you huffing gas? Or just markers and model airplane glue?

That would be a first, and yet, you failed in the very first paragraph.

Daily updates? I don't even have to do that with my BOSS. Weekly updates if that. And I get paid an awful lot more than $25 a year in order provide such updates.

I think that you are talking about an employer / employee relationship, however this is a provider / customer relationship. service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Demanding that rumors get straightened out? That's really up to the person or entity about which the rumors are circulating. Let's say I started a rumor about you, but you had no problem with it (let's assume it's a positive rumor, to keep the analogy simple). Would it honestly be necessary for either you or me to correct the rumor? It is Conquer Club's prerogative, and Conquer Club's alone, as to whether or not to settle rumors about itself. If the rumors themselves are part of the planning involved in the objective they are pursuing, then for them to subvert that just so your little feelings are assuaged is tantamount to CC suicide. Meaning, we don't know what's at stake here, and we're only seeing one piece of the play.

Here you are out of context. The rumors in question, i believe, are in relation to the relationship between OP and CC. There should be an action to keep the record straight as this OP fellow seems to have the respect of a lot of players here.

I know it's condescending of me to assume that you are young, but maybe you're just inexperienced in life. So I'll try to give you a little help. Dude, you're never going to know the whole story about anything. When you start dating, you'll learn this. When you dump a girl and try to let her down easy, you won't tell her all the reasons why you can't stand her or her 5,000 cats. And if you get dumped, you won't hear the truth. It is this kind of uncertainty in life that you must learn to accept, if not embrace.

WTF are you on about here? dating? I applaud barterer2002 for his open and honest dialog. You would have him pipe it because he can never know the whole truth? If everyone thought that way, there we might still believe that the world was flat.

barterer2002 is way more mature than you and the lame ideas that you are pointing out just for the sake of being argumentative.

And hey, I'd like to know the official reason why the maps were dumped too. But there's a lot of things I'd like to know, and I've learned in life that one of two things will happen A) it'll all come out in the wash eventually or B) it's so trivial and inconsequential to the spinning of the planet on it's axis that eventually I will come to grips with it's (and my own) insignificance in the universe and will then be able to pursue true happiness.

The maps were dumped because they were direct violations of copyright law. you can't take hasbro's game and put it online and say that its yours. It was obviously a rip off of the board game. Have you EVER looked at the sites meta data?

<meta name="keywords" content="conquer club,risk online,risk game,free,board game,multiplayer,global wars,play risk,global domination" />
<meta name="description" content="An online multiplayer variation of the RISK board game. Free to play." />

Come on dude, you really don't know that this site stole its content from hasbro?

So, in conclusion, SIMMA DOWN NOW. This is a small, independent company that provides a strikingly awesome product for a bargain price. In doing so, and in doing their best to provide it, they run into problems that beset many small independent companies (especially those run by what medical professionals call "youths").

You simma down and let the man seek out his answers. This site is second rate, not worth the $25 at all, as I have said before. Its entirely hosted on open source technologies, which I support, but when you get to the part where its content it pirated, that is a problem. I miss the classic map, don't get me wrong, but lets face it, it was only a matter of time before Hasbro twisted the arm of CC to take that shit off the site.

I could blithely say here that you should just try running a company yourself and maybe that'd give you some perspective [CUE SFX: Hot Air Being Blown Out of Whistle], but instead I'll appeal to your better nature and just say, "Dude, if you can put yourself in their shoes, wouldn't you really appreciate some patience and support?"

wow... the guy was just asking for information and complaining that there was no forewarning about the issues that lead the loss of some content and some players. Its a good think you don't work for the company. Your stupid approach to communicating with site members would chase everyone away.

Daily updates. Man, that got me laughing out loud. That sounds like something Queeg would demand (don't be like Queeg, dude):

yes, its much better to be a sheep like you and don't ask any questions.

If they put all that time into keeping you informed of their struggles, setbacks, and perhaps days of no progress whatsoever, when are they ever going to get anything done? Or, if it's just something quick and thoughtless, that will attract even FURTHER derision and complaint from you and yours.

it would take all of about three minutes to keep your customer base informed of what is going on with the produce that they pay for. in a forum based environment, its not too much to ask.

Just chill out. Take a few deep breaths. Try to remember what this site really is, instead of focusing on what it isn't. Hell, do that with most things in life. I think you'll find yourself generally happier and more content.

That is all.

beeeee a sheeeeeeep liiiiike meeeeee.
beeeee a sheeeeeeep liiiiike meeeeee.
beeeee a sheeeeeeep liiiiike meeeeee.
beeeee a sheeeeeeep liiiiike meeeeee.

you really don't have a reason to make the post that you did except to be argumentative and insulting to a paying site member that asked a few good questions.

thats all i have to say on the matter.

[pimpdave]

service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Yes, yes of course. And they might lose you as a customer then, huh?

Oh wait.

[black elk speaks]

service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Yes, yes of course. And they might lose you as a customer then, huh?

Oh wait.

Most excellent! you see, this is why I won't pay for an account.

I see you agree with everything else I wrote, as obvious by your no comment approach.

[jiminski]

come on you 2.. this will only get the thread locked or moved .. it was quite nice not being in the 90 pages of indecipherable mulch in Q&A ..
heh ahh what the hell! we are all just taking crap about stuff we have no frigging idea about .. even if we were to hit the nail on the head our opinions are completely inconsequential.

[comic boy]

service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Yes, yes of course. And they might lose you as a customer then, huh?

Oh wait.

Most excellent! you see, this is why I won't pay for an account.

I see you agree with everything else I wrote, as obvious by your no comment approach.

You mean that you wont pay a THIRD time for an account Mr ex_Lion who has been busted twice

[black elk speaks]

yeah? got any original things to say? I think you have beaten that horse to death.

[pimpdave]

service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Yes, yes of course. And they might lose you as a customer then, huh?

Oh wait.

Most excellent! you see, this is why I won't pay for an account.

I see you agree with everything else I wrote, as obvious by your no comment approach.

Well, see, I'm not going to comment, except in this post here, because you're the one taking this into ad hominem territory and away from the OP. Perhaps you hope this thread will be moved to flame wars, or locked. But either way, I'm not going to bite.

However, I must point out one major self-contradiction in your post. Calling me a sheep? Could you please point to all the other people in this thread taking the same position as myself? I'm pretty sure I'm alone here, so far. You're the sheep, if we're going to be accurate.

But honestly, there was just so much idiocy and thorough bullshit in your post, there's nowhere to even begin to engage it.

See, this is why people mostly don't respect you AT ALL on the forums. Because you make no sense but think that you do. That's called crazy person logic. So here you are, once again, trying to jump on the bandwagon to get some respect, but anyone with half a brain will look at your post and think "Wait, what?" while when they look at my posts, I receive PM comments semi-frequently saying things to the effect of "pimpdave, you made a good point, albeit a bit abrasively in delivery."

So, I'm trying to be less abrasive, sarcastic, cynical and acerbic, all at once. I guess I have a lot more to work on.

And that's the major difference between you and me. I'm actually trying to contribute, whereas you're just trying to post. There's a difference, but I sincerely doubt you see it.

Everything I've posted in this thread is a standard to which I hold myself, and I am very hard on myself. You are a different story, trying to beat the "customers might leave" drum when you aren't even a customer is the kind of hypocrisy that makes ___________* look like virtuous behavior.

*(this was going to be a metaphor about either Catholic pedophile priest hypocrisy or Islamo-Fascist hypocrisy, but since I can't determine which is a greater anathema to me, I'm just going to leave this blank. Besides, I don't want to allow for any tangents for someone to go off on, when they further derail this thread into the ad hominem.)

And that's it. I won't take your bait any further, nor will I repeat my claims here in another thread. You've heard what I think of you BES, in response to what you think of me, now please get back on topic. Since I have nothing else to say on the topic that I haven't already, you can expect not to see me in this thread anymore.

[jiminski]

let's be realistic around here!

the site is never going to be able to give us a world map with classic gameplay. (unless this is in fact part of a Hasbro take-over attempt .. we have some kick-arse maps on here and just to own the copyrights of many of them would allow them to make good money out of Board manufacture.... in passing do the map-makers own the copyright of does Lack?)

I have seen a lot of good ideas for replacement maps (which incidentally will not happen either, due to Lacks desire to chose the absolute safest option! I do not blame him for that, he is gambling with his livelihood and we are not!)

what we are left with to replace the map with are indeterminate blob maps with Classic gameplay...

For me, if we can not have the world map, the Classic Gameplay may as well die.
That is not a bitter statement, it is just the realisation of the limitations before us.

Classic holds resonance for thousands of CC users who sat around a board in their child-hoods.
We know it, we take visual reference from it, we smell it and feel the plays in the context of a 1,000 others we made before.

that is not just about gameplay, it is a cultural reference.

So i will stay here! I will play all the other beautiful maps and let the Classic die.
The Dog-Poo Molecule or the Blocks with artists names in them are an insult to its memory, so that is the death of Classic for me.

It is the reality and why bother wasting time on chasing ghosts!?

My point is that without all the luggage of being able to invade Kamchatka; as you did when you were 8 to break your dads bonus in Asia.. and if you can not crush the last remaining force in Madagascar; just like you did to upset your older brother for your first ever sibling victory! ....Without those connotations, we are just playing around with false hope.

That really is not me feeling all melancholic, it is just the conclusion i have arrived at.

[black elk speaks]

service providers should always communicate with their clients. otherwise, they lose their customers.

Yes, yes of course. And they might lose you as a customer then, huh?

Oh wait.

Most excellent! you see, this is why I won't pay for an account.

I see you agree with everything else I wrote, as obvious by your no comment approach.

Well, see, I'm not going to comment, except in this post here, because you're the one taking this into ad hominem territory and away from the OP. Perhaps you hope this thread will be moved to flame wars, or locked. But either way, I'm not going to bite.

However, I must point out one major self-contradiction in your post. Calling me a sheep? Could you please point to all the other people in this thread taking the same position as myself? I'm pretty sure I'm alone here, so far. You're the sheep, if we're going to be accurate.

But honestly, there was just so much idiocy and thorough bullshit in your post, there's nowhere to even begin to engage it.

See, this is why people mostly don't respect you AT ALL on the forums. Because you make no sense but think that you do. That's called crazy person logic. So here you are, once again, trying to jump on the bandwagon to get some respect, but anyone with half a brain will look at your post and think "Wait, what?" while when they look at my posts, I receive PM comments semi-frequently saying things to the effect of "pimpdave, you made a good point, albeit a bit abrasively in delivery."

So, I'm trying to be less abrasive, sarcastic, cynical and acerbic, all at once. I guess I have a lot more to work on.

And that's the major difference between you and me. I'm actually trying to contribute, whereas you're just trying to post. There's a difference, but I sincerely doubt you see it.

Everything I've posted in this thread is a standard to which I hold myself, and I am very hard on myself. You are a different story, trying to beat the "customers might leave" drum when you aren't even a customer is the kind of hypocrisy that makes ___________* look like virtuous behavior.

*(this was going to be a metaphor about either Catholic pedophile priest hypocrisy or Islamo-Fascist hypocrisy, but since I can't determine which is a greater anathema to me, I'm just going to leave this blank. Besides, I don't want to allow for any tangents for someone to go off on, when they further derail this thread into the ad hominem.)

And that's it. I won't take your bait any further, nor will I repeat my claims here in another thread. You've heard what I think of you BES, in response to what you think of me, now please get back on topic. Since I have nothing else to say on the topic that I haven't already, you can expect not to see me in this thread anymore.

You're not fooling anyone. you are abrasive to the core, so much so that you don't even realize that you were flaming barterer2002 in your post when you even started the post by saying that you were going to be nice.

and where I call you a sheep is where you tell barterer to simply accept the site as is without bothering to ask questions about what is going on. Yours is a book burners mentality, and nothing less.

True, I don't own a premium membership, but I have explained this before. It is not worth it to me to buy a second rate membership to a site that has a name only "premium" account status when it doesn't buy me anything other than access to endless games when I barely have time to play 4 at once. The argument that I would put cash to support copyright infringement is entirely another issue. Certainly you understand the "legal" stance on this issue? oh, wait... maybe not.

Finally, it is obvious to me that you enjoy "respect" on this site by sucking up to those that you believe have clout or "respect". Do not be fooled, you don't have respect here any more than I do.