We need a proper map popularity thread

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We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby mibi on Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:53 pm

I would love to see some rankings on which maps are popular and which have largely failed to attract the publics attention.

I used to compile such a list but based on total pages of active games. Cairnswick also had a thread about map movement stats but it sorted by total games played.

Given that the number of territories on a map has an effect on the length of play involved, and the number of active games going on, i think someone should come up with a formula that is based on the number of active games, but weighted to factor in larger maps.

i.e There are 259 active Super max games and 148 active Doodle earth games, however I would say that doodle is more popular, its just that its way smaller so games end quicker. so doodle would have to be handicaped in the scoreing.

anyways, i think that with so many maps out there, we really need to know what is popular and what people are attracted to.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby The Neon Peon on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:45 pm

An easy method to determine popularity is: (number of games on the map)/(days the map has been available to play).

It would be interesting to see the results.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby owenshooter on Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:39 pm

mibi wrote:I would love to see some rankings on which maps are popular and which have largely failed to attract the publics attention.

yeah, that might be something the foundry should look into doing and housing with a sticky at the top of that forum...-DDB
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby mibi on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:06 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:An easy method to determine popularity is: (number of games on the map)/(days the map has been available to play).

It would be interesting to see the results.



that is still skewed towards smaller maps as a player can start and finsh 10 doodle games in the same period of time they start and finish 3 supermax games.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Incandenza on Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:36 am

mibi wrote:that is still skewed towards smaller maps as a player can start and finsh 10 doodle games in the same period of time they start and finish 3 supermax games.


Seems like there could be some sort of variable that takes into account map size: .5 for tiny maps, 1.5 for huge maps.

Better yet, with some hard-core data mining, the constant could simply be the average number of rounds per game per map (tho one of the problems with supermax, at least in team games, is that the last several rounds tend to be mopping-up of cell blocks when the outcome is no longer in doubt).
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby e_i_pi on Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:07 am

Incandenza wrote:
mibi wrote:that is still skewed towards smaller maps as a player can start and finsh 10 doodle games in the same period of time they start and finish 3 supermax games.


Seems like there could be some sort of variable that takes into account map size: .5 for tiny maps, 1.5 for huge maps.

Better yet, with some hard-core data mining, the constant could simply be the average number of rounds per game per map (tho one of the problems with supermax, at least in team games, is that the last several rounds tend to be mopping-up of cell blocks when the outcome is no longer in doubt).

Hard core lol, you've obviously never done 3-year recursive analysis on 10000 stock tickers :P But yeah something along the lines of:
P = R / (G * D)
...where...
P = popularity
R = Total number of rounds played in all games
G = Number of games played
D = Days since the map went live
...that would be pretty easy to implement. Each map might need one more variable in the SQL tables, but since everything can be done by PHP/SQL, it wouldn't even need to be updated manually. It could be updated on refresh, or to reduce server load, updated via a cron job once a week / month. Now where's a coder when you need one?

As an example, here's some easy to understand stats:
Small Doodle-Like map: avg 5 rounds per game, 100 games played, since it went live 5 days ago
Medium Europe-Like map: avg 10 round per game, 100 games played, inception 10 days ago (same # of games, over twice the time, as it takes twice as long to play)

P(S) = 500 / (100*5) = 1
P(M) = 1000 / (100*10) = 1

That takes out the time per game factor, bringing it down to strict popularity...
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby e_i_pi on Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:15 am

Hmm, you might need to take into account number of players, and teamsize as well though lol...
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Incandenza on Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:44 am

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was talking about. :D
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby AAFitz on Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:27 am

Well, after looking at this briefly, I think perhaps any formula like this will more define what popular means, rather than define what map is actually popular.

I think Popular, can only really mean, How many unique individuals play a particular map to be the exact definition of popular. If a small map is handicapped, then the formula is essentially penalizing the map for perhaps the very reason it is Popular, and then the number doesnt really mean Popular...though I suppose it could mean Relatively Popular.

Also, The fact that Ive played world well over 1000 times does not make it more popular...so I should only count as 1.

True Popularity = the number of people that play a given map. (thouogh even this does not account for people that played it once, and hate it.

I suppose a complex formula that accounts for true popularity, and relative popularity could produce the closest thing to what might be considered the most popular...It will be subjective...but if both numbers are shown, it will be close enough to be useful

True Pop= # Unique Players Playing 1 game on map
Relative Pop= # Games played on map / #Days available to play
Daily Popularity= # Games played on map / Day since map was established
Relative Popularity = # games Played on map/ # Days available * Size factor of map(or speed factor ie, AOR is a big map, but you get dropped 2 places, and its over quick usually.

Total Estimated Popularity = Combining all of these factors together in some weighted formula
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Gypsys Kiss on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:56 pm

Would you discount tournament games, seeing as you dont always get a choice of what map you play(i.e.Map Blaster)? Being forced to play a map shouldn't make it more popular.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Supermarioluigi on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:58 pm

Gypsys Kiss wrote:Would you discount tournament games, seeing as you dont always get a choice of what map you play(i.e.Map Blaster)? Being forced to play a map shouldn't make it more popular.


And not to mention Random Map as well, which we have no idea which games were Random...which throws a big problem into the mix.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Incandenza on Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:47 pm

I doubt that tourney or random games would significantly change the outcome, as they don't represent more than a relative handful of games compared to the 5.6 million or so total games.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby MrBenn on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:35 pm

A popular map will be played by lots of people, lots of times...

I'm too tired to think how to calculate it, but surely the map with the highest number of different people playing games on it each day = Most popular ?
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:37 pm

I like pi's equation, but it rewards build games too much.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:39 pm

Don't forget about how spoils will effect the length of games. flat rate/no spoils games can easily last 100+ round while escalating rarely go over 30.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby chipv on Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:26 pm

MrBenn wrote:A popular map will be played by lots of people, lots of times...

I'm too tired to think how to calculate it, but surely the map with the highest number of different people playing games on it each day = Most popular ?


Yup and dead easy for someone to knock up a tool for but the results won't be ... popular necessarily.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:27 pm

chipv wrote:
MrBenn wrote:A popular map will be played by lots of people, lots of times...

I'm too tired to think how to calculate it, but surely the map with the highest number of different people playing games on it each day = Most popular ?


Yup and dead easy for someone to knock up a tool for but the results won't be ... popular necessarily.



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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby mibi on Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:58 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:Don't forget about how spoils will effect the length of games. flat rate/no spoils games can easily last 100+ round while escalating rarely go over 30.


but wouldn't this cover all maps a speople can play those settings on any map. unless there is a certain map that people don't use cards on.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby MrBenn on Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:02 am

I'm sure the settings would even out to some degree - perhaps what would be good would be some sort of "Map Popularity" ranking, which could be filtered for specific preferences... OR to have a "Most Popular Settings" for each map...

I'd imagine that 8p Freestyle Assassin games are most popular on Doodle Earth, for example...
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Esn on Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:21 pm

mibi wrote:I used to compile such a list but based on total pages of active games. Cairnswick also had a thread about map movement stats but it sorted by total games played.

Does anyone have a link to either of those lists? I'd love to see the results myself.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Scott-Land on Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:00 am

mibi wrote:I would love to see some rankings on which maps are popular and which have largely failed to attract the publics attention.

I used to compile such a list but based on total pages of active games. Cairnswick also had a thread about map movement stats but it sorted by total games played.

Given that the number of territories on a map has an effect on the length of play involved, and the number of active games going on, i think someone should come up with a formula that is based on the number of active games, but weighted to factor in larger maps.

i.e There are 259 active Super max games and 148 active Doodle earth games, however I would say that doodle is more popular, its just that its way smaller so games end quicker. so doodle would have to be handicaped in the scoreing.

anyways, i think that with so many maps out there, we really need to know what is popular and what people are attracted to.


I would assume a large percentage, a very large one, of Doodle's success is via Speed games. It's crippled the 8 man speed Classic freestyle games.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby porkenbeans on Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:46 pm

I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. :roll: Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular. ;)
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby mibi on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:16 pm

porkenbeans wrote:I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. :roll: Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular. ;)


if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.
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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby Beckytheblondie on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:30 pm

mibi wrote:if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.


Yes. The player who player crossword 100 times a month has played against 100 opponents, too.

Also, he needs to clip a lot of newspapers to find that many damn crosswords.

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Re: We need a proper map popularity thread

Postby porkenbeans on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:30 pm

mibi wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. :roll: Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular. ;)


if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.
YES it does. Besides, it is NOT a question of "fair". It is only a question of fact. I think that you and others, are confusing the "most popular" with the "best" map. There are thousands of people that play here. Any single player, is NOT going to corrupt the numbers.
If you want a list of the "best" maps, then I suggest that you use a poll , where each player is only allowed to cast a single vote. Then I believe that you will get the list that you are looking for. ;)

I will take a guess right now as to what is the top map in popularity. I see an awful lot of Feudal's started. That and Age of Realms.
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General Contribution (1)

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