Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[jak111]

Not going to let you slide on the mis vote thing,first I dont see you making that mistake,second I dont see Edoc letting that slide.

Nor am I going to let you slide on this claiming I did or did not do a night action crap. You can't even claim a role to back up your story. So if this slides through it's pretty pathetic attempt of a scum claim.

"I checked with Edoc and he confirmed" whatever you're even saying. First you say I was in on the kill, then you say I didn't do anything. Tsk, tsk. Get your story straight bud.

I think the reason why you didn't want to say anything yesterday is because you had to talk it over with your scum buddies. That's the only thing I can think of when you let a town be lynched if you had evidence on a baddie. But instead you let that town get lynched, talked with your buds, and now going to try to get another town lynched in a 4-1 trade off. (2 town lynches and 2 night kills).

Also, you never addressed my comment on the "you were made to use your role last night" quote. If that doesn't seem scummy to anyone else, either I'm insane or everyone else is.

[vodean]

oh, yes. me and JG are scumbuddies, and we are outing both of us to kill one townie... or you are outed...

[jgordon1111]

Not going to let you slide on the mis vote thing,first I dont see you making that mistake,second I dont see Edoc letting that slide.

Nor am I going to let you slide on this claiming I did or did not do a night action crap. You can't even claim a role to back up your story. So if this slides through it's pretty pathetic attempt of a scum claim.

"I checked with Edoc and he confirmed" whatever you're even saying. First you say I was in on the kill, then you say I didn't do anything. Tsk, tsk. Get your story straight bud.

I think the reason why you didn't want to say anything yesterday is because you had to talk it over with your scum buddies. That's the only thing I can think of when you let a town be lynched if you had evidence on a baddie. But instead you let that town get lynched, talked with your buds, and now going to try to get another town lynched in a 4-1 trade off. (2 town lynches and 2 night kills).

Also, you never addressed my comment on the "you were made to use your role last night" quote. If that doesn't seem scummy to anyone else, either I'm insane or everyone else is.

Jak dont try to twist what I am saying please. And if I made it difficult to grasp, Here it is simply put. You lied about mis voting,you are likely a joat
ergo the lie about mis voting. Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,yes I ensured with Edoc my role was used on you last night. Under no circumstances do I believe Edoc would have let you slide on a (mis Vote) therefore you saying you did is a lie. You covered your role by saying Mis vote. when in Reality you were compelled to do something and your not claiming any other actions it leads me to believe you a SCUM joat who had to help kill last night.

What I said was you didnt mis vote,what I am saying is you are a Scum Joat who was compelled to use your role and had to kill with it.

Next twist please.

[jgordon1111]

My guess is that Mr. Squirrel is also a human who has investigative powers. I believe that Jak is human also. The reason he probably said angel, is because his role pm may say something like, "you win when all demon's have been eliminated." That is pure speculation- but to me, it seems that's the only reason why he would say angel.

This would be correct, William of York sounded like some Angel so I said Angel, plus it doesn't mention anything besides killing the demons. Though if I am human and I am town, it makes me question what the angels are. My original thought was I was an angel, humans were third party and demons were mafia, but as this progresses and I am human apparently I question whether the angels are town or if they are the ones who are third party.

Unvote

I will say that I think the idea of a cult is rather farfetched. Humans recruiting Angels/Demons/Both?

Perhaps I can shed some light on to how there may be cult in the game. This game is based around some form of christianity one form or another, so a "non believer" or another religion could be recruiting people to their side. Take me in real life for example, I don't believe in any religion and if people listen I'll tell them up front what I think about it, hence someone preaching to unfollow chrisitanity making a cult likely in this game not a far fetched idea as Safari may have you believe, in fact, it almost fits into it perfectly. What does the cult follow or not follow? I don't know, but a cult is definitely a possibility.

Religion and Cults go hand and hand. If one only has a few members in it it is known as a "cult" but if one has many members it is a "religion". Sorry for those it offends but if I do not bring this to light we may let a cult slip under our grasp just because someone wants to hold onto a belief in a game.

Ebwop: I'd suggest testing this. Starting with Victor's vote.

Hmm, I'm sure jak said this earlier but it must have got lost in this saint debate. I do agree the two vote stealers are probably not the same alignment.

I did mention it

Though I think I have some information from last night as to who is what... Victor, make a vote, Iiliad, use both your votes, you'll both retract them once they are tested but for now I want to see who is missing their vote. Iiliad said he is, but Victor is the one who should be missing his, so I want to see if there's someone lying or if there's another person who can affect votes.

Funny how it was skipped and people act like it's a new idea
I even mention to find out if there's a SECOND person who can effect votes, if anyone cares to read that.



From what I am gathering + the link I quoted a few pages back all point to this new theory.

Demons = mafia (obviously)
Humans = Town AND Cult (there may be a cult amongst us)
Angels = Town AND Mafia (The quote mentioned that some angels followed Satan and hence they were Demons)

Any counters? Any angel claims to have a comparison? Any demons who want to add to this?

Fastposted by StrikeWolf

Why are we assuming there's two vote stealers atm? We haven't even tested to see if Illiad/VS is missing a/their vote. Do you got insider information we should know about about what's happening to Illiad's claim of missing a vote?

Sorry about double post but I had to go find this tidbit. Show of hands how many of the rest of you are confused about who your role is and what your alignement was from Day 1,Jak is because he needs to explain how a Vote stealer is not a scum role. Notice the line where he says william of york sounds like an angel so I said angel. If he was william of york his role would have told him, Saint or Angel and would have stated his alignment.
Therefore taking any guess work out of it.
The rest of you know your role is Saint or Angel and your alignment. Why does jak have to make assumptions on his?

[pancakemix]

Jak, you say that you mistargeted but you're making a big deal out of vodean saying you "were made to use your role". Am I missing something? Because that doesn't seem to add up.

@JG: I'd say I'm fairly clear on my role.

[jak111]

Because all it told me was that I was William of York not "saint william of york" or any other variation of that.

Another TWO posts without a claim JG. Your credibility is lowering with everyone else and it's not there with me. You can't even me specific, how are is it to say;

"I am a _____(tracker/watcher/cop/etc)" "With my action Jak did this ____ (Visited, stayed at home, etc)"

Jak dont try to twist what I am saying please. And if I made it difficult to grasp, Here it is simply put. You lied about mis voting,you are likely a joat
ergo the lie about mis voting. Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,yes I ensured with Edoc my role was used on you last night. Under no circumstances do I believe Edoc would have let you slide on a (mis Vote) therefore you saying you did is a lie. You covered your role by saying Mis vote. when in Reality you were compelled to do something and your not claiming any other actions it leads me to believe you a SCUM joat who had to help kill last night.

What I said was you didnt mis vote,what I am saying is you are a Scum Joat who was compelled to use your role and had to kill with it.

Next twist please.

Back up your accusations JG, you're not saying why you think this or that, just that you think I lied about mis voting. A scum JoaT.. please, tell me, where have I heard that one before? JoaT's are normally sided with town, not scum, so you'd be further proving my innocence, however, I am no JoaT.

Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,

So you are saying you can force people to use their roles? That's a bit fishy, especially since Edoc confirmed no such thing to me of using my role and no ??? votes are popping up on the vote counts.

Your claim, weak. Your story, false. Come out with a full claim in your next post, this dilly dallying is just proving your role wrong. What? Do you have to think about what to claim?

Fastposted once.

I'm making a big deal about it, because unless there's a bus driver or framer going on, JG's story isn't adding up to his claim, his hesitance to claim what he supposedly had done is weak. Unless he made me visit the dead with his role it's impossible for me to have visited them. So, the quicker he's pressured to claim, the quicker we can see what's going on.

Another reason why it's a big deal is because I have no second vote, hence I couldn't have been made to use my role, hence, JG is lying.

[vodean]

Because all it told me was that I was William of York not "saint william of york" or any other variation of that.

Another TWO posts without a claim JG. Your credibility is lowering with everyone else and it's not there with me. You can't even me specific, how are is it to say;

"I am a _____(tracker/watcher/cop/etc)" "With my action Jak did this ____ (Visited, stayed at home, etc)"

Jak dont try to twist what I am saying please. And if I made it difficult to grasp, Here it is simply put. You lied about mis voting,you are likely a joat
ergo the lie about mis voting. Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,yes I ensured with Edoc my role was used on you last night. Under no circumstances do I believe Edoc would have let you slide on a (mis Vote) therefore you saying you did is a lie. You covered your role by saying Mis vote. when in Reality you were compelled to do something and your not claiming any other actions it leads me to believe you a SCUM joat who had to help kill last night.

What I said was you didnt mis vote,what I am saying is you are a Scum Joat who was compelled to use your role and had to kill with it.

Next twist please.

Back up your accusations JG, you're not saying why you think this or that, just that you think I lied about mis voting. A scum JoaT.. please, tell me, where have I heard that one before? JoaT's are normally sided with town, not scum, so you'd be further proving my innocence, however, I am no JoaT.

Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,

So you are saying you can force people to use their roles? That's a bit fishy, especially since Edoc confirmed no such thing to me of using my role and no ??? votes are popping up on the vote counts.

Your claim, weak. Your story, false. Come out with a full claim in your next post, this dilly dallying is just proving your role wrong. What? Do you have to think about what to claim?

Fastposted once.

I'm making a big deal about it, because unless there's a bus driver or framer going on, JG's story isn't adding up to his claim, his hesitance to claim what he supposedly had done is weak. Unless he made me visit the dead with his role it's impossible for me to have visited them. So, the quicker he's pressured to claim, the quicker we can see what's going on.

Another reason why it's a big deal is because I have no second vote, hence I couldn't have been made to use my role, hence, JG is lying.

you could be chosing not to use your second vote. or a scumbuddy double-voter, who backed you up yesterday, isnt here today, or doesnt have your back. it means nothing.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I think it should be mentioned that we shouldn't disregard the possibility that humans and angels have different win conditions, since if the subvert-thing is in the angel role pm but not in the human role pm. It's not in my role pm anyway, I found out about it through Lsu's and jgordon's posts, so I suppose it is also not in Jak's (or violet's, or other claimed humans') role pms.

All of that is not relevant if Jak is lying about his night actions, though. jgordon, you'll have to tell us at least what you found out last night, or you should claim a role/name because at the moment we have only your word for it. Jak is correct to say that you should claim what you know and(/or) what you are before anyone can judge.

I believe you would be right in that assumption Aage.

[jgordon1111]

Because all it told me was that I was William of York not "saint william of york" or any other variation of that.

Another TWO posts without a claim JG. Your credibility is lowering with everyone else and it's not there with me. You can't even me specific, how are is it to say;

"I am a _____(tracker/watcher/cop/etc)" "With my action Jak did this ____ (Visited, stayed at home, etc)"

Jak dont try to twist what I am saying please. And if I made it difficult to grasp, Here it is simply put. You lied about mis voting,you are likely a joat
ergo the lie about mis voting. Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,yes I ensured with Edoc my role was used on you last night. Under no circumstances do I believe Edoc would have let you slide on a (mis Vote) therefore you saying you did is a lie. You covered your role by saying Mis vote. when in Reality you were compelled to do something and your not claiming any other actions it leads me to believe you a SCUM joat who had to help kill last night.

What I said was you didnt mis vote,what I am saying is you are a Scum Joat who was compelled to use your role and had to kill with it.

Next twist please.

Back up your accusations JG, you're not saying why you think this or that, just that you think I lied about mis voting. A scum JoaT.. please, tell me, where have I heard that one before? JoaT's are normally sided with town, not scum, so you'd be further proving my innocence, however, I am no JoaT.

Yes I COMPELLED you to use your role,

So you are saying you can force people to use their roles? That's a bit fishy, especially since Edoc confirmed no such thing to me of using my role and no ??? votes are popping up on the vote counts.

Your claim, weak. Your story, false. Come out with a full claim in your next post, this dilly dallying is just proving your role wrong. What? Do you have to think about what to claim?

Fastposted once.

I'm making a big deal about it, because unless there's a bus driver or framer going on, JG's story isn't adding up to his claim, his hesitance to claim what he supposedly had done is weak. Unless he made me visit the dead with his role it's impossible for me to have visited them. So, the quicker he's pressured to claim, the quicker we can see what's going on.

Another reason why it's a big deal is because I have no second vote, hence I couldn't have been made to use my role, hence, JG is lying.

Thank you for the next in your series of Lies Jak, Edoc didnt inform me I was forced to use MY role,and as far as dilly dallying about. The reason no ???? are popping up on the vote counts is you didnt steal a vote,because as a joat you can only do it once. Not the story of I mis voted,and Edoc didnt correct me on it. Still got to meta that Edoc would not have let that slide.

Edoc told everyone out the gate unique roles,I have already said what mine is,and I think you knew what it was already as soon as I called you on some obvious lies,and the way I stated it. You Have been Compelled. Clear enough for you? Hence you had to use your role,but yet above you claim you couldnt have been made to use your role,yet you still try to make out that you mis voted,which is it did you mis vote or were you not compelled to use your role. It has to be one or the other Jak,you dont get it both ways.

[jak111]

Well like I said JG, you're scum for obvious reasons to me.

All I gather from your claim right now is that you target someone and it says if they used their power or not (hence, a tracker mechanic) which tells me you fail to fake claim.

But let's say you are telling the truth, I'll humour you for a moment that you aren't scum trying to kill me. The only other possible explanation is framer, busdriver, or the night deadline broke the game partially.

To your one or the other, no, there is no one or the other. If my action was used last night it was used without my knowledge. I know my action didn't get through because I targeted Ghostly (Was looking at the wrong game of the two I'm currently in) and he didn't get back to me until deadline.

Also, no. "you have been compelled" is not clear enough for me.

Although, if this is a fight between two town, I hope Edoc will admit to any breaks caused. Otherwise, I have you pinned in my head JG. You wont even fully claim, just mention compelled and other useless things. You're scum, and I'll keep that thought process until either you're dead and proven me wrong (or right which I suspect it shall) or an investigative role can clear you 100% somehow. Otherwise, as long as I live in this game, your scum days are out numbered and I will find the faulty in your claim. So you better make sure to have every bit of detail right whenever you post from now on.

[vodean]

Well like I said JG, you're scum for obvious reasons to me.

All I gather from your claim right now is that you target someone and it says if they used their power or not (hence, a tracker mechanic) which tells me you fail to fake claim.

But let's say you are telling the truth, I'll humour you for a moment that you aren't scum trying to kill me. The only other possible explanation is framer, busdriver, or the night deadline broke the game partially.

To your one or the other, no, there is no one or the other. If my action was used last night it was used without my knowledge. I know my action didn't get through because I targeted Ghostly (Was looking at the wrong game of the two I'm currently in) and he didn't get back to me until deadline.

Also, no. "you have been compelled" is not clear enough for me.

Although, if this is a fight between two town, I hope Edoc will admit to any breaks caused. Otherwise, I have you pinned in my head JG. You wont even fully claim, just mention compelled and other useless things. You're scum, and I'll keep that thought process until either you're dead and proven me wrong (or right which I suspect it shall) or an investigative role can clear you 100% somehow. Otherwise, as long as I live in this game, your scum days are out numbered and I will find the faulty in your claim. So you better make sure to have every bit of detail right whenever you post from now on.

hey, jak. just saying, but i dont really think anyone believes you anymore. except maybe vio. and she's probably pissed that you outed yourself

[jgordon1111]

Still trying to turn it Jak,wrote it out for you several times and yet you still try, Compeller Jak. COMPELLER no variation of tracker or any other sort. THE ROLE IS COMPELLER.

AND you still cannot explain away,how it seems you did not know your faction,your alignment,your team,william of york. Because you are sticking with as you just again stated all you got in your pm was apparently was your name.

Second now you state Edoc,got back to you at deadline,why did you not make the change at that time,you were thinking of someone at some point,the first round you took a shot in the dark,why not this time?

Now on the other hand I asked Edoc if my role had been used he said it had.

How could my role be used Jak if you mis voted? And edoc informed you at deadline you would have had to change that vote for my role to activate.

so per Edoc you used your role because I compelled you to. Yet you didnt steal a vote,but now for the first time I believe you add that Edoc informed you of your mistake and you didnt alter that mistake. This I dont believe at all.

No you were compelled to use your role and you did.

[samgrossy]

All this is great between Jak and JG, but we do have an agenda as town here.

I am more than willing to use Jak as our target now instead of Vodean. This guy is scummy, and I think we let the list do the talking. If Jak flips town, not only do we have the information from Chap, but we also have JG as a target and vodean as a target for tomorrow.

I think the best target is the one we think is most scummy.

I am not on the list to vote today, but I think it is best to vote Jak at this point. We just need to get this done.

[safariguy5]

I have to say that jak has used the idea of a role that is usually town aligned as defense twice now.

First time was when he was talking about vote manipulation roles. Second time was just now when he claimed that mafia don't have a JOAT role.

Any role can be any alignment. With 25 people, mafia having roles like JOAT's or other non standard mafia roles can signify a third party threat. Certainly, the game is large enough to accommodate that. If jgordon is indeed a compeller and jak lied about either his night action or his target, I think that's a pretty good lead right there.

unvote vote jak

[vodean]

ok jak, time to fess up. we know you are lying thanks to JG. why are you lying. what are you hiding?

[jgordon1111]

If we get to the point of lynching jak, I say again short lists are better. 4 people from the last lynch are for sure aligned wrong. So again we can do this the safest way if the majority says lynch Jak,then before deadline everyone removes their vote and I keep mine there Which will show my alignment automatically,with chaps help.

If anyone jumps and suddenly votes someone else well that is a dead giveaway.

[vodean]

*me jumps and votes someone else*
oops. damn.

[jonty125]

Well the writing's on the wall for jak, vote jak

[jgordon1111]

you know what vodean, everytime it seems you might not be scum,you say something. And it usually something along the lines of your last post and it makes me want to rethink this entire game and just lynch you for the hell of it.

You have played alot of games and yet you seem to have not grasped the concept of not looking like scum every game even when you are not.

I happen to think this is one of those few times you may not be,and yet you keep saying stuff that my 8 yr old granddaughter would know better than to say at this point.

I am making a case on jak and you keep interjecting the dumbest shit possible into it.

If your role is saint stupid you are doing a great job.

Should I step back on my case against Jak and let him proceed to lynch you on the flimsy made up crap he has. The reason I mostly think your not scum is Jak seemed hell bent on lynching you.

or are you now going to save your posts for logical positive input?

Are you drinking as you play? If so try it sober for a minute,read your last 10 posts and see what you have actually said and brought to this arguement.

I thought about saying something earlier,but I was focused on locking Jak down on what he has said and done.

Fluff and one liners get you lynched in this game,and you should know that.

I do have a question beings I dont follow games I am not in anymore,have you ever made it to endgame?

So what I am saying is please dont say anything unless it is important or useful.

[vodean]

oh yeah, i make it to endgame when ut interests me. yewah, sory tonight it was probably not a good idea to logg on at all. one to many

[aage]

I think it should be mentioned that we shouldn't disregard the possibility that humans and angels have different win conditions, since if the subvert-thing is in the angel role pm but not in the human role pm. It's not in my role pm anyway, I found out about it through Lsu's and jgordon's posts, so I suppose it is also not in Jak's (or violet's, or other claimed humans') role pms.

All of that is not relevant if Jak is lying about his night actions, though. jgordon, you'll have to tell us at least what you found out last night, or you should claim a role/name because at the moment we have only your word for it. Jak is correct to say that you should claim what you know and(/or) what you are before anyone can judge.

I believe you would be right in that assumption Aage.

And you of all people should know too bad there's principles, but I'll take this for a sort of confirmation.

Still trying to turn it Jak,wrote it out for you several times and yet you still try, Compeller Jak. COMPELLER no variation of tracker or any other sort. THE ROLE IS COMPELLER.

AND you still cannot explain away,how it seems you did not know your faction,your alignment,your team,william of york. Because you are sticking with as you just again stated all you got in your pm was apparently was your name.

Second now you state Edoc,got back to you at deadline,why did you not make the change at that time,you were thinking of someone at some point,the first round you took a shot in the dark,why not this time?

Now on the other hand I asked Edoc if my role had been used he said it had.

How could my role be used Jak if you mis voted? And edoc informed you at deadline you would have had to change that vote for my role to activate.

so per Edoc you used your role because I compelled you to. Yet you didnt steal a vote,but now for the first time I believe you add that Edoc informed you of your mistake and you didnt alter that mistake. This I dont believe at all.

No you were compelled to use your role and you did.

The role doesn't sound very common nor legitimate, but you correctly say that there's some strange roles in the game (like Chap's). And since I have you down for angel more than anyone in the game, I believe you enough to vote Jak if that's okay with Chap's strategic team.

I wonder what the extent of your power is though. Did you just force Jak to use the role, or did you force him to use it on someone specifically? This doesn't really matter to your claims, though; I doubt Edoc'sil would let him cheat out of your ability so easily.

[jak111]

Without directly quoting Edoc, I received an action last night (a gift of sorts I guess) that I could only use last night, but it was forwarded so I could use it tomorrow because of DEADLINE and late actions already.

So unless your role gives me that gift (which I doubt because I was given a choice to use it) or you sent your action in around deadline JG I look forward to your head on a spike when I flip town.

Although I'm loving how fellow townies are turning on me when we have 100% non town today, that's something worth checking into at a later date (with two unknown non towns on the list still).

I will send a message to Edoc about this situation, because IF JG is telling the truth and I was compelled to use my action (which I did already use it anyway just hit wrong person) then it'd be a mod error which hopefully he could state in a general post something like "due to late actions some things never went through". But if he doesn't post that, then JG, tomorrow you will be exposed for the scum that you are this game.

(also here's a thought to those joining the Jak wagon, JG thinks I'm some sort of JOAT, give me the night to prove that I am Vote Stealer and steal JG's vote since scum don't need their votes)

[aage]

Although I'm loving how fellow townies are turning on me when we have 100% non town today, that's something worth checking into at a later date (with two unknown non towns on the list still).

Who exactly are you referring to? Or is this another mention in the endless line of everyone of us knowing that obviously you must be town because of obvious reasons, and therefore jgordon obviously must be scum? Because that tires. I think we would appreciate it if you brought any evidence to the table but apparently you can't. Jg is calling you out on lying about your night action and all you seem to be doing is OMGUS. Repetitively.

[jak111]

Although I'm loving how fellow townies are turning on me when we have 100% non town today, that's something worth checking into at a later date (with two unknown non towns on the list still).

Who exactly are you referring to? Or is this another mention in the endless line of everyone of us knowing that obviously you must be town because of obvious reasons, and therefore jgordon obviously must be scum? Because that tires. I think we would appreciate it if you brought any evidence to the table but apparently you can't. Jg is calling you out on lying about your night action and all you seem to be doing is OMGUS. Repetitively.

What evidence can I bring? Besides quoting every single pm I have I can't bring anything against the bullshit he's bringing forth. All I can give you is my word that I wasn't even forced to use my action elsewhere because of the deadline and there's no mention of being forced to. If I was forced I'd have my 2nd vote, but I do not. So then he twists it and says I'm some sort of JoaT, if I'm a JoaT let me prove otherwise tonight by stealing his vote.

[jgordon1111]

Although I'm loving how fellow townies are turning on me when we have 100% non town today, that's something worth checking into at a later date (with two unknown non towns on the list still).

Who exactly are you referring to? Or is this another mention in the endless line of everyone of us knowing that obviously you must be town because of obvious reasons, and therefore jgordon obviously must be scum? Because that tires. I think we would appreciate it if you brought any evidence to the table but apparently you can't. Jg is calling you out on lying about your night action and all you seem to be doing is OMGUS. Repetitively.

What evidence can I bring? Besides quoting every single pm I have I can't bring anything against the bullshit he's bringing forth. All I can give you is my word that I wasn't even forced to use my action elsewhere because of the deadline and there's no mention of being forced to. If I was forced I'd have my 2nd vote, but I do not. So then he twists it and says I'm some sort of JoaT, if I'm a JoaT let me prove otherwise tonight by stealing his vote.

Jak the point is not only about the mysterious mis vote,but also how you didnt know your alignment somehow,the fact that out of the blue you keep clearing vio,now another fantastic twist(last night I recieved a gift of sorts)whoops no mention of that prior to now and me calling you out as a joat.
But let me live so (I can kill the shit out of some more of you) I told you Jak if you slipped I would be there.