The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow Wolves win

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Wait I missed d3/d4 but if AWF power moved on then that's so unfair for town. I get balancing things because we got the lucky shot d1 but knowing theres no conversions we cant safely have confirmeds, knowing the AWF power was passed on (which is a reasonable thing to do imo, as long as you announce it).

Town imploded d5 because with Dev confirmed seer who could not be converted with the AWF dead, we got another confirmed Pix. It explains why Dev didnt die and if Town knew that AWF was in the game I dont think we speedlynch based on a Seer who should by all accounts not be alive.

I'm kind of upset about this.

Yeah considering how things happened probably announcing it would have changed things. Certainly I did not saw some things happening so I learned a few things as mod as well

[degaston]

I could see BBW retaining his kill even after Strike's death, but having 2 kills is a bit much, along with LC being able to attack villagers. It didn't make sense to me, but I couldn't figure out any changes that would have made sense either, so I was still suspicious of Vot, otherwise I might have protected him instead of Rag.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Impressed with some Votani reading he almost always suspected a lot of the things that happened.

Also best Sonic game so far imo

[Extreme Ways]

we live and learn

[swang918]

Boooooo

I was at first kind of disappointed about town fumbling an incredible start, but now i dont think we even had a chance after the second wolf buff.

I get that wolves were down big in the beginning and i could see buffing them one time but 2 extra conversions is just too much. Especially when they can convert a confirmed seer who was guaranteed to survive to the end.
Think of it this way, on the last day, all wolves needed to win was for one villager to vote any other villager, and theyd have enough to pile on and win.
But im not gonna hate too much. I get that its hard to get the right nalance. If you hadnt done anything then town probably would have just run away w it in the other direction. And it was a blast up until the end

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Boooooo

I was at first kind of disappointed about town fumbling an incredible start, but now i dont think we even had a chance after the second wolf buff.

I get that wolves were down big in the beginning and i could see buffing them one time but 2 extra conversions is just too much. Especially when they can convert a confirmed seer who was guaranteed to survive to the end.
Think of it this way, on the last day, all wolves needed to win was for one villager to vote any other villager, and theyd have enough to pile on and win.
But im not gonna hate too much. I get that its hard to get the right nalance. If you hadnt done anything then town probably would have just run away w it in the other direction. And it was a blast up until the end

Yeah Town was just gonna stomp. Had DDS not died would have been no need of another AWF unfortunately he died befere converting, certainly a lot of chaos that made the way one way or another

[Ewebasher]

First game for me and initially far too much 'previous game chat'. As a wolf was delighted you gave us 3 bites (pun intended) at the AWF but do think it gave us a big (unexpected ) advantage.

To be fair to Traf he'd watched strike get confessed upon on D1 and DDS get cupid'd out on D2?...

[Extreme Ways]

Loose attacked DDS as the wolves kill, then Pixar used the AWF power to turn him. Therefore DDS was infected but he was not aware of this

Wait how did this happen. Arent they both in awoo chat?

[Votanic]

Anyway I barely played this game so I wasnt too emotionally invested, just felt like this game was basically confirmed won 6v2 and wanted to play it out cleanly rather than speedvoting as I wasnt in thread two days in a row. There's no way Sonic knows that if he votes wrong, wolves can end the game. Sonic played such a "clean" game too, changing up his meta.

You bring up another good point, EW.

Thor60 snatched the Worst Player Gold Medal out of Maxleod's paws. leaving him holding the Silver.
...and I'm going to give the Worst Player Bronze to you because you were gone a lot.

And that leaves Sonic not even placing on the Worst Player podium. Amazing!

[Extreme Ways]

nvm I just read that AWF is not a separate kill/convert

[Extreme Ways]

Anyway I barely played this game so I wasnt too emotionally invested, just felt like this game was basically confirmed won 6v2 and wanted to play it out cleanly rather than speedvoting as I wasnt in thread two days in a row. There's no way Sonic knows that if he votes wrong, wolves can end the game. Sonic played such a "clean" game too, changing up his meta.

You bring up another good point, EW.

Thor60 snatched the Worst Player Gold Medal out of Maxleod's paws. leaving him holding the Silver.
...and I'm going to give the Worst Player Bronze to you because you were gone a lot.

And that leaves Sonic not even placing on the Worst Player podium. Amazing!

I think Max triumphs over Thor and it was also Thor's first game, so I dont fault him. I dont fault myself much too RL just got too intense but I was hoping I was able to contribute more to this d5, I was ready to get back into things. I'll take my silver medal over Thor because all I did was cast some doubts and refresh your power.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

First game for me and initially far too much 'previous game chat'. As a wolf was delighted you gave us 3 bites (pun intended) at the AWF but do think it gave us a big (unexpected ) advantage.

To be fair to Traf he'd watched strike get confessed upon on D1 and DDS get cupid'd out on D2?...

Really great first game. I hope you stick for more mafia games.

Loved the way you used the Bear tamer fake claim

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Loose attacked DDS as the wolves kill, then Pixar used the AWF power to turn him. Therefore DDS was infected but he was not aware of this

Wait how did this happen. Arent they both in awoo chat?

They Are, wolves send an attacker, but then the AWF converts them

[Votanic]

Anyway I barely played this game so I wasnt too emotionally invested, just felt like this game was basically confirmed won 6v2 and wanted to play it out cleanly rather than speedvoting as I wasnt in thread two days in a row. There's no way Sonic knows that if he votes wrong, wolves can end the game. Sonic played such a "clean" game too, changing up his meta.

You bring up another good point, EW.

Thor60 snatched the Worst Player Gold Medal out of Maxleod's paws. leaving him holding the Silver.
...and I'm going to give the Worst Player Bronze to you because you were gone a lot.

And that leaves Sonic not even placing on the Worst Player podium. Amazing!

I think Max triumphs over Thor and it was also Thor's first game, so I dont fault him. I dont fault myself much too RL just got too intense but I was hoping I was able to contribute more to this d5, I was ready to get back into things. I'll take my silver medal over Thor because all I did was cast some doubts and refresh your power.

Yeah, I know it was his first game... but...
1) Not contributing for days & days.
2) Making fake, crazy-wolf noises for no reason.
and then...
3) Misreading & misclaiming his role.

That was a lot of badness, even for a new player.

[Extreme Ways]

Loose attacked DDS as the wolves kill, then Pixar used the AWF power to turn him. Therefore DDS was infected but he was not aware of this

Wait how did this happen. Arent they both in awoo chat?

They Are, wolves send an attacker, but then the AWF converts them

Followup quiestion, was DDS not aware due to how you executed game mechanics (ie only waking up the subsequent nights) or because he just... didnt notice?

In rulebook he'd be made aware immediately so not sure if it was on DDS or just mechanics change

[Extreme Ways]

Anyway I barely played this game so I wasnt too emotionally invested, just felt like this game was basically confirmed won 6v2 and wanted to play it out cleanly rather than speedvoting as I wasnt in thread two days in a row. There's no way Sonic knows that if he votes wrong, wolves can end the game. Sonic played such a "clean" game too, changing up his meta.

You bring up another good point, EW.

Thor60 snatched the Worst Player Gold Medal out of Maxleod's paws. leaving him holding the Silver.
...and I'm going to give the Worst Player Bronze to you because you were gone a lot.

And that leaves Sonic not even placing on the Worst Player podium. Amazing!

I think Max triumphs over Thor and it was also Thor's first game, so I dont fault him. I dont fault myself much too RL just got too intense but I was hoping I was able to contribute more to this d5, I was ready to get back into things. I'll take my silver medal over Thor because all I did was cast some doubts and refresh your power.

Yeah, I know it was his first game... but...
1) Not contributing for days & days.
2) Making fake, crazy-wolf noises for no reason.
and then...
3) Misreading & misclaiming his role.

That was a lot of badness, even for a new player.

ok but I probably did 1) as well so at least have me be worse than him. I also think that misreading/misclaiming is a genuine new player mistake and he coudlve been pardoned/given time to explain. The nightnoises and such I'll give you that

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Loose attacked DDS as the wolves kill, then Pixar used the AWF power to turn him. Therefore DDS was infected but he was not aware of this

Wait how did this happen. Arent they both in awoo chat?

They Are, wolves send an attacker, but then the AWF converts them

Followup quiestion, was DDS not aware due to how you executed game mechanics (ie only waking up the subsequent nights) or because he just... didnt notice?

In rulebook he'd be made aware immediately so not sure if it was on DDS or just mechanics change

Yeah, he was not aware as I altered game mechanics. They got bitten but only converted on the next night. not aware they had been infected

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I apologize to everyone if the ending was upseting I can understand it, and not sure was the best way to hanlde thing. it was an easy town win due to abd luck of Strike and DDS dyeing early. But maybe something else could have been done better.

[Ragian]

LOL. You're away from one concert and everything turns to shit.

Thanks for hosting, Traf <3

[*Pixar*]

Go Wolves. I will say once we converted Devante we knew it was game over lol

[Votanic]

I apologize to everyone if the ending was upseting I can understand it, and not sure was the best way to hanlde thing. it was an easy town win due to abd luck of Strike and DDS dyeing early. But maybe something else could have been done better.

But was it even an 'easy' town win'?
Even if the wolves hadn't been given a second third chance to use the AWF power, I think everything would have looked exactly the same up until Day 5. The only difference would have been that Dega wasn't a wolf.
Any supposed bad luck by the wolves was more than made up for by Town's bad luck (Max, Thor, Charle being poisoned)...
And even if Thor played decently it wouldn't have been particularly bad luck for the Wolves, because it would have helped keep suspicion off Ewebasher, not that he ever got that close to being lynched anyway.

Some will argue that Townies playing badly isn't Town's bad luck , but then I would argue that when Townies play well, it shouldn't be considered as the Scum's bad luck either.

I'm also torn about provided safe claims, I suppose it depends on the particular game dynamics... but I might argue that creating one's own false claims (safe or not) is part of playing Scum.

I know this was an experimental game... but I think game mechanics should not be modified or reset after a game begins.
Subbing in players is fine, as long as they don't have intel.

[degaston]

I realized the wolves were gonna lose easily so I wanted to give a fighting chance and decided to grant another target for the AWF as the fake claims I gave them were probably not the strongest. (Lesson learnt)

I think wolves were very unlucky at the beginning and were sure to lose the game if they didn't get some help.

I appreciate you modding Traf. I know it's challenging.

But IMO, the umpire should just call balls and strikes, and try to stay out of helping one side or the other once the game has started.
You never know what will happen.

[degaston]

Even if the wolves hadn't been given a second third chance to use the AWF power, I think everything would have looked exactly the same up until Day 5. The only difference would have been that Dega wasn't a wolf.

I wasn't a wolf. That was Dev.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I apologize to everyone if the ending was upseting I can understand it, and not sure was the best way to hanlde thing. it was an easy town win due to abd luck of Strike and DDS dyeing early. But maybe something else could have been done better.

But was it even an 'easy' town win'?
Even if the wolves hadn't been given a second third chance to use the AWF power, I think everything would have looked exactly the same up until Day 5. The only difference would have been that Dega wasn't a wolf.
Any supposed bad luck by the wolves was more than made up for by Town's bad luck (Max, Thor, Charle being poisoned)...
And even if Thor played decently it wouldn't have been particularly bad luck for the Wolves, because it would have helped keep suspicion off Ewebasher, not that he ever got that close to being lynched anyway.

Some will argue that Townies playing badly isn't Town's bad luck , but then I would argue that when Townies play well, it shouldn't be considered as the Scum's bad luck either.

I'm also torn about provided safe claims, I suppose it depends on the particular game dynamics... but I might argue that creating one's own false claims (safe or not) is part of playing Scum.

I know this was an experimental game... but I think game mechanics should not be modified or reset after a game begins.
Subbing in players is fine, as long as they don't have intel.

Disagree.

D5 Dev would be dead. So it would be Vot, Rag, Deg, EW, Sonic confirmed with Ewe, Pixar, Swang not confirmed. It was a matter of time. Lets say u all guessed wrong and lynched Swang and the wolves get a good kill. So its 4v2 anyway. Thats assuming best case scenario for wolves

But I agree probably it just happens and not all games have to gone to a lynch or lose situation

[Votanic]

First game for me and initially far too much 'previous game chat'. As a wolf was delighted you gave us 3 bites (pun intended) at the AWF but do think it gave us a big (unexpected ) advantage.

To be fair to Traf he'd watched strike get confessed upon on D1 and DDS get cupid'd out on D2?...

Those are just events in the game, the first wasn't even random, the second moderately so, but in any case, Sonic had the right to choose any two lovers he wished.
Traf shouldn't have decided to restack the deck like that.
Basically anytime Town had any sort of win in the game, it was treated as being unfair to the wolves.