World Cup 1970

[Lalloq]

Map Name: World Cup 1970
Mapmaker(s): Lalloq
Map Size: 49
Your aims/design style: A medium size map with objectives and special regions. You have to hold the opponent goal (2 of 3 regions) for one round to win.
There are not lots of sportive maps (only baseball I think) and I wanted to propose one which is about Soccer. The game Brazil vs West Germany didn't happen on 1970, because of the elimination of germans by italians. It's a dreamt final.
The game can be played in all situations, but is more balanced with 2,4,6 or 8 players. The idea is to score a goal to adverse goalkeeper. Only midfielders and strikers can score, but you'll be helped by defenders, goalkeeper, fans, trainers or referee to bombard your opponent or reinforce your team. There is a kind of collaboration, even in standard game, because of the tactic to lead with the X players of the same team.
Every player begins with a defender, which autodeploys, and some fans. All the others begin neutral.
The other rules are on the map. They can obviously be rectificated with your critical arguments
Uniqueness: That's soccer !
Relevant Experience: First map. I did a quick draw on InDesign. I will do better if people are interested in it. I have no knowledge in XML language and I speak english like a french...



Here is the small map. The big one will be, I hope, easier to understand...



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I'm waiting for your commentaries

[Victor Sullivan]

Very nice match-up, though if I recall correctly, these two didn't face each other in the finals - wasn't it Italy or France? Anywho, if you choose to use these teams, maybe just call the map "World Cup" and not specify a year. Some thoughts/suggestions:

1. It's very wordy. Wordy is bad in the sense that it scares a lot of people away.
2. The gameplay you've incorporated is very nice and very accurate (or rather, as accurate as it can be), though it is a tad complex and therefore complicated. I'm not saying you necessarily need to cutback the gameplay, but you have to at the very least make things as clear as possible.
3. This brings me to point #3: People don't necessarily know what/who the "wings"/"forwards"/etc. are, so maybe some sort of symbol could be used to denote each type.
4. The soccer/footballs have to be labeled somehow, unless you choose to name them by the adjacent player, I suppose that would work.
5. The tribunes - are they necessary? I feel like that's a way you could un-complicate things well, though the coaches would have to be accessed by something else.
6. Do you really need three goal territories? Or do you suppose 1 would work just as well?
7. Army circles are bleh - I say drop 'em.
8. The Brazil goalkeeper - I thought Brazil's goalkeeper wore green?
9. I assume you're neglecting the territory bonus for this map? I think you can adjust it, so you have a concrete bonus instead of just all autodeploys. You could consider +3 flat then +1 for every territory (player) over 3.

Keep up the good work! This is great stuff!

-Sully

EDIT: Lol, just saw the "The game which never happened" at the top...

[natty dread]

It's very wordy. Wordy is bad in the sense that it scares a lot of people away.

This. You'll want to represent as much of the gameplay dynamics as possible visually. For example, when possible, use arrows to indicate one-way assaults, don't write in the legend "X can assault Z".

[Teflon Kris]

I've partly ignored some of Victor's comments due to lack of time - will come back to them, although my points may deal with some of the same stuff.:

Overall, this is quite similar to an idea I posted ages ago.

Setting

The first problem is that s-word. Most of the non-US-world play football (which in the US seems to have nothing much to do with a foot or a ball, more hand -oval, or United-Statesian Rugby).

The point is, many lovers of Futbol hate the s-word. Given the demographics of CC members, Futbol may be the best name for the map to avoid confusion and the fact that genuine football-lovers may be put off by the s-word.

Whilst Brazil v Germany is a classic, it is perhaps too specific. A general football map with reds and blues would be preferable for us fans. We can then use it to re-enact any match we like, and for World Cup & Champions League tournaments etc.. Plus, having generic red and blue teams means you could have the players named as positions (e.g. Red Striker 1), solving Victor's ansd others' lack of tactical knowledge.

Gameplay
Your gameplay is involved and interesting, and to anyone who knows about football , iwe can see you are trying to recreate some essential features of the world's game. However, here are some bizarre things:

(a) Team-mates attacking each other !
(b) How many balls on the pitch? !
(sc) The goalie can bombard his own goal? Who is this goalie, Bruce Grobelaar?

I'll post a link to my equally-complicated idea soon.

The problem I had, and the problem with all sports team-game maps is that we really need a couple of new xml features for them to really play like the game - for example, 'team starting positions', and not to mention 'map-specific battle vocabulary' - see here. Without team starting positions, the team (i.e. Brazil or Germany) of the players is almost irrelevant, you'd end up attacking and holding players from both (just as whether the bonuses you are going in D-Day are American or German is irrelevant).

Having said all that, I would like to support your efforts.

[Lalloq]

Very nice match-up, though if I recall correctly, these two didn't face each other in the finals - wasn't it Italy or France? Anywho, if you choose to use these teams, maybe just call the map "World Cup" and not specify a year.
EDIT: Lol, just saw the "The game which never happened" at the top...

Italy won semi-final versus West Germany...

1. It's very wordy. Wordy is bad in the sense that it scares a lot of people away.
2. The gameplay you've incorporated is very nice and very accurate (or rather, as accurate as it can be), though it is a tad complex and therefore complicated. I'm not saying you necessarily need to cutback the gameplay, but you have to at the very least make things as clear as possible.
3. This brings me to point #3: People don't necessarily know what/who the "wings"/"forwards"/etc. are, so maybe some sort of symbol could be used to denote each type.
4. The soccer/footballs have to be labeled somehow, unless you choose to name them by the adjacent player, I suppose that would work.
5. The tribunes - are they necessary? I feel like that's a way you could un-complicate things well, though the coaches would have to be accessed by something else.
6. Do you really need three goal territories? Or do you suppose 1 would work just as well?
7. Army circles are bleh - I say drop 'em.
8. The Brazil goalkeeper - I thought Brazil's goalkeeper wore green?
9. I assume you're neglecting the territory bonus for this map? I think you can adjust it, so you have a concrete bonus instead of just all autodeploys. You could consider +3 flat then +1 for every territory (player) over 3.

1. Wordy : the next answer bring some idees to prevent that, maybe arrows.
2. Complex gameplay : Same answer than before. Arrows will avoid words and make map clearer.
3. Complex vocabulary and label: to change the real names with positions will be better.
4. Tribunes : I had idea that the game is on yhe field, but also in tribunes. If the stadium is full of your fans, you will be stronger, no ? I don't know if it helps, but I like this idea !
5. One or three goal territories ? i don't know. I imagined situation where two people assault the goal. But, reading while I'm wrinting, maybe it is more simple to have only one territory, because these territories can't be respectively assaulted.
6. Army circles are bleh : Exactly right It was a clu for the size of the shirts I draw. They are not necessary. I will do others shirts, they will be lovely !
7. The Brazil goalkeeper - I thought Brazil's goalkeeper wore green? I didn't know. Taffarel wore green, Dida black and Felix is blue on pictures I found.
8. Territory bonus : Only tribunes (if they stay here) can bring bonus territories. I like your proposition (+3 flat then +1 for every territory-player) over 3).

Keep up the good work! This is great stuff!
-Sully

Thanks for ideas

This. You'll want to represent as much of the gameplay dynamics as possible visually. For example, when possible, use arrows to indicate one-way assaults, don't write in the legend "X can assault Z".

I had this idea, but I feared to put some new lines on a heavy map. I will try nevertheless...
Thanks for helping

The first problem is that s-word. Most of the non-US-world play football (which in the US seems to have nothing much to do with a foot or a ball, more hand -oval, or United-Statesian Rugby).
The point is, many lovers of Futbol hate the s-word. Given the demographics of CC members, Futbol may be the best name for the map to avoid confusion and the fact that genuine football-lovers may be put off by the s-word.

I'll change it.

Whilst Brazil v Germany is a classic, it is perhaps too specific. A general football map with reds and blues would be preferable for us fans. We can then use it to re-enact any match we like, and for World Cup & Champions League tournaments etc.. Plus, having generic red and blue teams means you could have the players named as positions (e.g. Red Striker 1), solving Victor's ansd others' lack of tactical knowledge.

This is a very good idea which helps to solve "wordy" and s-word. Nevertheless, I would prefer not to put just red and blue shirts. Maybe I keep the colors, but not name the teams...

Gameplay
Your gameplay is involved and interesting, and to anyone who knows about football , we can see you are trying to recreate some essential features of the world's game. However, here are some bizarre things:

(a) Team-mates attacking each other !
(b) How many balls on the pitch? !

(a) and (b) - There is no ball on the pitch. The little balls enable players to do specific action. And yes a defender conquers a midfielder, who conquers a striker, who conquers the goal. It's my way to make the attack built.

(sc) The goalie can bombard his own goal? Who is this goalie, Bruce Grobelaar?

The striker scores. The goalie can do stops. To prevent ball from going to his goal, he can bombard the goal. If he reaches to do it, no danger...

I'll post a link to my equally-complicated idea soon.

I would be pleased to see that !

The problem I had, and the problem with all sports team-game maps is that we really need a couple of new xml features for them to really play like the game - for example, 'team starting positions', and not to mention 'map-specific battle vocabulary' - see here. Without team starting positions, the team (i.e. Brazil or Germany) of the players is almost irrelevant, you'd end up attacking and holding players from both (just as whether the bonuses you are going in D-Day are American or German is irrelevant).

It's the same problem in army race, and it's not a problem
Here you begin with only one player-territory (defender) and some random tribunes' territories...

Having said all that, I would like to support your efforts.

Thanks ! Nice from you !



Thanks everybody for helping
I come back very soon with new proposition !

[Teflon Kris]

Wickerd - thanks for taking all our points on board.

In a rush again, sorry, but your responses to my stuff are cool - good point about the keeper bombarding the goal.

Another potential future xml feature mentionned in the thread linked to above is 'Reinforcement -Only Links' - this would be cool if players could fort (pass) to their team-mates but couldn't assault them. Not something that is likely to happen soon though.

Anyway, glad you are up for dropping the specific (Brazil-W Germany) match idea, and, yes, yellow and white shirts are as good as any for colour - anything but pink and orange spots

[MrBenn]

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.