Hungary in 16th century

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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:20 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:Natty uses Paint.net and does a reasonably good job


Only reasonably? :cry:

;)

...anyway. The key for working with Paint.net, as I have advised anyone using it, is getting the right plugins.

The most important (the ones I use most) of them being these two:

Plugin pack containing selection bevel, object outline, horiz./vert. flip
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22819

Drop shadow
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22881

And more can be found on the paint.net forums.

Then some general advice: use the layers to your advantage. Whenever you add anything to the map, create a new layer for it. Sometimes I even use multiple layers for the same object. This will pay off later on, whenever you need to change anything...


easy, easy .... im just a begginer i dont even know whats the use of layers or how to use them :(
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:38 pm

Layers are basically how the image is built. They're just images stacked on top of each other. For example, you'll have the background on one layer, outlines on second layer, the land area on another layer, text on another layer... The background usually is fully opaque, the other layers are partially transparent. The layers together form the final image.

The opacity of the layers can be adjusted, so that you can have semi-transparent objects on the image, where background shows through... the army circles are usually made this way.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:45 pm

alright, i deleted some rivers and transformed them into borders , i believe the regions are still too big but this is all i could do right now , i will make more regions soon
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to be honest , i dont like what i see ... it still needs alot of improvements but i have no idea of what to do :? :(
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 pm

OK... I'll break this down as best I can. Natty hit the nail on the head when he described layers. Everything you do, borders, colors, rivers, ect are going to be in different layers.

The first thing to do is fix those rough borders.

Create a new layer and label it borders.
Zoom in to about %600.
Select the brush tool, black color and size 3 px.
Systematically trace over the borders. It doesn't have to be exact but close will do. You will ultimately be deleting your original image, so don't worry about it.

Once you've done that create a new layer and label it rivers.
Do the exact same as the above with a bluish color of your choice.
Trace over the rivers.

One of the big problems with this map, imo, is that the tri-colors of the empires contrast with each other too much. Make the Ottoman Empire various shades of red, make the Austrian's various shades of white, make Hungary shades of Green. (or colors of your choice). That way the regions have some sort of graphical unity.

Next, you're going to want to apply these colors...

Create a new Layer and label it Ottoman Hungary.
Get your brush tool and change the color to something like burgundy.
Increase the size of the brush to about 20.
Color in the regions that comprise Ottoman Hungary.
Shrink the brush to maybe a 5 px and get in the little nooks and crannies of the border.
When you're done you should have a much clearer map of Ottoman Hungary.

Repeat the above step for all your regions, including the sea. When you're done, you'll have a better looking map.

Since I've got a mac I can't get myself Paint.net... but since Natty does perhaps he can point out how to make a new layer and what the brush looks like, how to change size and color, ect.

Once you've done this, post it and we'll go from there.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:21 pm

Well here's something I put up quick:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:21 am

wow, thats alot of help , thank you i'll try to improve it but it seems like it will take alot of time
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:07 am

i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:22 am

usamatnt wrote:i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?


What format did you save the image in?

When you're editing the image, you work on the .pdn file. This is the layered image, and you need to keep one to keep working on the image. But when you want to publish the image, you need to save a copy that is non-layered. For this you need to save the image in .png format, this will merge all the layers into one and save the image in a format that can be viewed on web pages.

Then just host the .png file on imageshack, and keep the .pdn file for further editing.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:45 am

natty_dread wrote:
usamatnt wrote:i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?


What format did you save the image in?

When you're editing the image, you work on the .pdn file. This is the layered image, and you need to keep one to keep working on the image. But when you want to publish the image, you need to save a copy that is non-layered. For this you need to save the image in .png format, this will merge all the layers into one and save the image in a format that can be viewed on web pages.

Then just host the .png file on imageshack, and keep the .pdn file for further editing.

and how do i make it a png? :D

EDIT: sorry that was a retarded question, anyway i found out how to do it

Image

this is what happens when i zoom to 600% and put the brush on 3 ........... :o
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:45 am

ok heres a better one, this time i zoomed to 600 and made the brush 1

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still terrible -.-
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:16 am

Well... don't worry about the border pixelation. It can be fixed later. I usually create a drop shadow for the borders, it makes them look neat.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:31 am

natty_dread wrote:Well... don't worry about the border pixelation. It can be fixed later. I usually create a drop shadow for the borders, it makes them look neat.


how do i make shadows ?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:39 am

usamatnt wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Well... don't worry about the border pixelation. It can be fixed later. I usually create a drop shadow for the borders, it makes them look neat.


how do i make shadows ?


Install the plugins I posted on this thread earlier.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:58 am

it doesnt work
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:04 am

What are you having problems with, installing the plugin or using it?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:28 am

it isnt a tool , it uses coordinates and it doesnt work
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:00 pm

You're map image is also kind of small. You may want to take a look at this:

viewtopic.php?f=466&t=40463

Increase the size of the image and perhaps a 3 will work much better as a border. My advice is to make the map at small for the initial border drawing and coloring, just to make sure everything is legible on the small map scale. Then enlarge the map to the large map size and do the rest of the graphics there. Later just downsize the map when you need a small map and save it as a different file.

Natty... doesn't paint.net have a rounded brush? It looks liek these borders have been drawn with a square brush.... or is that the round brush?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:10 pm

Erm. You need to learn how to use it.

Take the layer that has your borders, and duplicate it. Put the duplicate layer below the borders layer.

Select the duplicate layer, then select drop shadow effect. Now you get the drop shadow window. There are several options:

X & Y: these define how far the shadow is cast. For example, if you put X in 3 and Y in 2 then the shadow goes from the original object 3 pixels to the right and 2 pixels down. Negative coords are possible to use.

Widening radius: this defines how much the shadow grows. 0 is the same size as the original object. 1 is 1 pixel more, 2 is 2 pixels more, etc.

Blur radius: this defines how much the edges of the image are blurred.

Opacity: 0 is fully transparent (invisible), 255 is fully opaque

Colour: the colour of the shadow. If you set it to white, you can use it to make glows around objects.

Keep original image: check this to preserve the object that is casting the shadow. Since we made a duplicate of the layer, this should be unchecked.

Now, when I apply drop shadow on borders, I usually set the first 4 values each to 1. Opacity I set somewhere around 190-200, and colour black, and uncheck "keep original image".

Note that the drop shadow is an object effect, ie. it works on opaque elements surrounded by transparent pixels, such as border layers, text layers, etc. If you try to use it on a fully opaque layer, like your background layer, it will not work.

The reason I usually duplicate the layer I'm using it on, then uncheck the "keep original" box, is because this way I will have the object on one layer, and it's shadow on a separate layer, I can then edit and modify these independently of each other.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:13 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Natty... doesn't paint.net have a rounded brush? It looks liek these borders have been drawn with a square brush.... or is that the round brush?


The default brush is round. However there is a plugin that makes it possible to use custom brushes.

However, when the brush size is less than 3 the brush is square, as pixels are square too ... ;)
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:26 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:Natty... doesn't paint.net have a rounded brush? It looks liek these borders have been drawn with a square brush.... or is that the round brush?


The default brush is round. However there is a plugin that makes it possible to use custom brushes.

However, when the brush size is less than 3 the brush is square, as pixels are square too ... ;)


Wow... that seriously sucks. You guys need better small brushes cause a square head that small looks bad. Can you download the photoshop brush set for paint.net?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:36 pm

I don't think so, but there are loads of custom brushes on the paint.net forum and you can make your own.

I didn't mean that the brush is square in small brushes, it's still round, but in practice that doesn't make a difference, since there's only 1-2 pixels.
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