Fort of France(Vauban) -> V3

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Fort of France(Vauban) -> V3

Postby DubWarrior on Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:02 am

V3 DRAFT
Draft 3
for comment see page 4

draft 2
I worked out the left side of the map, One camp attacking a central citadel. This is a 5 star fort but I can make it a 4-star too (vauban did it too). I can also bring in more camps. I was thinking on three.

The siege contains of mainly 3 battles.
-> First, on the left, the camp. Uniting a camp would brings a bonus (let's say 3 camp-regions +1, 5 regions +3, ...) reconstructing a riot inside.

-> Second battle: the citadel (centre) itself, with its bastions, ravelins, counterguard (CG) and central buildings. uniting pieces of the fort brings a bonus (darkgrey example on the map in the left-top: a +1 for uniting 2 buildings, can be expended by adding the rampart and the ravelin (would bring a, lets say +3) reconstructing a riot inside. darkgrey is an impassable moat.

-> Third battle: area between the camp and the citadel, and on the hills behind the camp. This battle is mainly a bombardment-battle between artillery.

In detail this crossing zone consists out of a few zones (circles), each zone containing regions.
-> The closed zone is for the miners. They are connected with the next zone (foot soldiers) and with a one way to the gate, containing a neutral +5, simulating time needed to blow up the gates. The citadel has 3 gates. The miners can be attacked by the CounterGuard soldiers (CG on the map).
-> Next zone is for foot soldiers. Foot soldiers are under attack by a one-way artillery on the bastion. They are connected with the miners and the end of the trench. They can be attacked by their own close range artillery in the back.
-> next zone is for short artillery. The can attack the foot soldiers, and are under attack by a one-way bombardment on the counterguard (CG artillery) and by their own stables in the back.
-> next zone is the outpost, containing stables, regions and the entrance to the trenches. trenches can only be accessed there. The outpost is under attack by the long-range artillery on the hills, left from the camp.
-> next zone is the camp, with 2 bridges and an impassable moat. outside the camp, on the hill is a long range artillery that can attack the camp below, the bridges and the outposts.

Specials:
-> the middle of the trenches loses -1 for each round, because they are in the line of sight of the citadels canons.
-> only way to acces the short range artillery is by capturing the stables, who have a one-way connecting to the short range artillery.
-> capturing the stables in the centre of the citadel gives acces to the counterguard artillery.
-> ravelins who have no gate, have a one-way bombardment with the counterguard. Historicaly correct. Ravelins had only walls in one direction. Once the enemy captured it, they could not hide from the canons inside the citadel.
-> trenches can only be accessed by the outpost or the foot soldiers.

Hey all,
some of you know me already from the Flanders 1302 map.
I'm currently running through some ideas and the next i like the most:

For those of you who don't know Sébastien Le Prestre (de Vauban) (1633-1707):
Image
http://www.fortified-places.com/vauban.html

Vauban was an engineer and architect of fortifications around cities and of citadels.
His fortification exists out of a star-shaped contour, most of the time in different levels.
Most of the fortifications still exist today, most of them in France. He's considered the greatest military engineer of Europe.
This one is a nice example:
Image

Why would a fort be a nice idea? I think because a lot of the possibilities of the XML could be used: there are a lot of One-way attacks, bombardment from canons on the wall, there are tunnels, different levels....lots and lots of possibilities. And it would be in honor of Vauban, for his tactics and ways of defense and sieging... we all use in CC =D>
But I'm not sure and need some feedback now. Would it be nice to make a detailed map of ONE fort, where all action take place?
Or multiple fortifications, so it comes like a (bit more detailed) Feudal Epic style? The larger the environment, the less place we have to make a nice game play out of the citadels.
We could place start positions, or place citadels in a harbor...

I know these forums aren't that much visited so all feedback is welcome and necessary.
Thanks,

Dub
Last edited by DubWarrior on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:39 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:10 am

I love it. Let's see a draft :)
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby ghirrindin on Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:16 pm

Fantastic. I say focus on one fort. That way you'll really be able to tease out the intricate strategies of the siege and the details in the structure's engineering.
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby DubWarrior on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:35 am

ghirrindin wrote:Fantastic. I say focus on one fort. That way you'll really be able to tease out the intricate strategies of the siege and the details in the structure's engineering.

I fully agree but any idea's on the positions of the players or an objective? Normally a fort is in hands of one nation, while the attack is done by another nation. If all players are in the same fort, it's more a riot...(a Vauban riot...sounds awesome :D ).
But what would be the objective: Holding several places in the fort? there's also need for an attack from outdoors...
so we need more a structure of several fortresses connected together with bridges or something...

Image

something like this, you see a fort in the south, west and north, separated by a great river or moat from the great structure in the east. Could that be detailed enough?

cheers
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:57 am

Perhaps a 17th century version of castle lands?
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby grifftron on Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:10 am

A more complex version of Castle Lands. Really put some thought into it and makes lots of terts. This map would be epic.

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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:50 pm

A good idea indeed. Instead of going for the oft-used Siege mentality in some fictional area, why not a historically-based siege on one of Vauban's forts? (preferably one that survived)
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby benga on Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:18 pm

Just love those old maps.
Lets see what can you make of it!
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby MarshalNey on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:08 pm

TaCktiX wrote:A good idea indeed. Instead of going for the oft-used Siege mentality in some fictional area, why not a historically-based siege on one of Vauban's forts? (preferably one that survived)

My thoughts exactly. Surely there were one or two epic seiges of a Vauban fort. Just the few seiges I have read about in the 1600's & 1700's seemed pretty spectacular. The digging of the parallel trenches, the outpost raids, the cannon exchanges, disease, etc....
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby The Bison King on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:28 am

Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone has an automatic start location. One person gets the fort and everyone else has to attack it.......... no there are a lot of reasons this couldn't work, but it would be cool if there was a balanced way to make a game where it was all vs. a fortified one.

Any way looks like there's a lot of potential here.
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby DubWarrior on Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:47 am

The Bison King wrote:Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone has an automatic start location. One person gets the fort and everyone else has to attack it.......... no there are a lot of reasons this couldn't work, but it would be cool if there was a balanced way to make a game where it was all vs. a fortified one.

Any way looks like there's a lot of potential here.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
wow sounds great but have to think on this idea, and get some response.

I'm also in for a another round of historical gameplay, but not really for the castle lands idea.
Nothing against that map, but i would love to see a more solid gameplay.
And love those old maps too 8-) i'll check out some historic battles on a Vauban fort.
Any idea of an epic one?

cheers
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby DubWarrior on Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:08 am

I've been thinking on the all-against-one' idea but that would make the map only suitable for single-player games. What about a terminator or even an assasin. The player in the middle of the castle would have a huge advantage. And there is already a siege map. But let's combine both ideas.

What about this, the story could be like this:
A Vauban Fortres has fallen, the enemy has breached its walls. The struggle inside the walls has already been going on for days. in the middle of the fortress different players are already fighting in some riot. More soldiers are running into the fort through its gates.
Gameplay could be like this:

The fortress bonus could be something like: 'hold 3 walls for a +4, hold 4 walls for a +6 and so on.
Or 'hold barracks and smithy for a +1. In the fortress there is some sort of small bonus so a player need to capture a large part of the fortress.
Outside the fortress there are some higher bonus regions, that are connected with the gates of the fort (eventually with a one-way through the gates)

just a thought,
cheers

Dub
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Re: Map in honor of Vauban

Postby DubWarrior on Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:45 pm

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I came to the next idea:
I like the idea of "What if..." maps, such like Fractured America. After some research it became clear that the cities on borders of France were all fortified, turning France into one big citadel. freaky to see a pentagon appear, the basic shape of the citadels by vauban...it seems to be the shape of the borders of France. So "What if' France became one big citadel, with it's own (military) economy inside - historically, a fortress had its own auto-sufficient city inside with mills, barber, shop, etc. Outside, the enemy is regrouping...will the French nation be able to hold the gates closed?

little explanation:
- inside a player can get a bonus by conquering a little region (2 to 3 terr), represented by a resource (example: grain, iron, wood...). He can make more profit once a player conquer a barrack (or a smithy?) and of course capturing one of the five citadels.
- Citadels can bombard neighboring regions, inside and outside the walls.
- Fort of France can only be accessed through the 5 citadels, these are one-way tunnels.
- Outside the walls, neighboring countries (or perhaps rebelling parts of France outside the walls?) have placed camps to attack the fort. conquering these bigger regions brings a pretty high auto-deploy on the main camp, outside the reach of the bombardment.
-Paris and Bazoches can be important places...(bazoches was the castle were Vauban lived)

- could we do something with sources from rivers? If Fort of France have its own economy inside, water and sources are important.

TO DO: I definitely would like to make the walls more complex with a little more Vauban-Specialties...
based on this image:
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Re: Fort of France(Vauban) -> V1, need some comment

Postby pamoa on Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:00 am

nice idea love last image
some suggestions
5 "armée" inside attacking 3 or 4 forts
forts connect along the line of defence
5 attacking powers facing 3 or 4 forts (two-way attack)
forts connect one way to some inside land
and inside land one way to "armée"
inside land/ressources connect each other
Click image to enlarge.
image
Last edited by pamoa on Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fort of France(Vauban) -> V1, need some comment

Postby army of nobunaga on Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:52 am

very cool
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