Vietnam Conflict Map, Ver.1 [Abandoned]

[t-o-m]

Abandoned to maybe start up again sometime.

[TaCktiX]

It looks like Indochina with military thingamajigs added. Seriously.

Suggestion A: Narrow down the map scope to be near purely Vietnam and a little bit of its neighbors. The neighbors themselves should have no territories, but should contain Viet Cong supply routes or some-such. Add some gameplay twist to that.

Suggestion B: Now that you have more "space" to do your map, rotate Vietnam a little bit so that you don't end up squishing the thin corridor in middle Vietnam into nothingness just to meet the 600px by 600px expectation.

[t-o-m]

It looks like Indochina with military thingamajigs added. Seriously.

Thats what i was worried about

Suggestion A: Narrow down the map scope to be near purely Vietnam and a little bit of its neighbors. The neighbors themselves should have no territories, but should contain Viet Cong supply routes or some-such. Add some gameplay twist to that.

Suggestion B: Now that you have more "space" to do your map, rotate Vietnam a little bit so that you don't end up squishing the thin corridor in middle Vietnam into nothingness just to meet the 600px by 600px expectation.

thanks for those suggestions, i'll create an update over the next few days and see what they look like.

[InkL0sed]

I know qwert is gonna say it, so I'll beat him to it:

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

[t-o-m]

I know qwert is gonna say it, so I'll beat him to it:

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

lol

[oosik]

I'm liking this so far ... both the idea and the look.

[t-o-m]

i think i need some more feedback, i will make a poll to see if i should clip it down to 'nam itself and rotate it as tactix suggested, or whether i shouldkeep it at that region.

even if i dont clip the map down, i think i will clip thailand down a little bit to save some room, then maybe rotate it.

--tom

[Qwert]

by InkL0sed on Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:45 am

I know qwert is gonna say it, so I'll beat him to it:

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

You say these before me,its not fair,these is mine words.

Well you have map without any names,only terittories. If you want to create good historical map then you must to do what InkLOsed say( i want back these words)
One more things,you dont need to open new topic,just procede where you start in old topic.

[t-o-m]

Well you have map without any names,only terittories.

i have names, they're just not on this Version.

[greenoaks]

you do not appear to know what you want. you have declared this is a map of a vietnam conflict and then provide a map of multiple countries.

what do the multiple countries have to do with the conflict ?

[t-o-m]

they were involved,

i have to call it a conflict because owenshooter says that its not a war it is a conflict/police action.

[Qwert]

Its these Vietnam War,or Indochina Conflict(these is war with france)?

[t-o-m]

it was the second indo-china war
the french were leaving, but the USA was trying to stop the spread of communism into vietnam, so its the vietnam 'war' or 'conflict'.
communism 'supporters' against 'anti-communist supports'

but that is put very basically

[greenoaks]

it has always been known as the Vietnam War in Australia and we participated.
i have never heard of involvement from those others countries on your map so you might want to explain what they did.

[t-o-m]

it has always been known as the Vietnam War in Australia and we participated.
i have never heard of involvement from those others countries on your map so you might want to explain what they did.

Belligerents

anti-Communist forces

South Vietnam
United States
South Korea
Republic of China Taiwan
Australia
Philippines
New Zealand
Cambodia Khmer Republic
Thailand
Kingdom of Laos

Communist forces

North Vietnam
People's Republic of China
Viet Cong
Cambodia Khmer Rouge
Soviet Union
North Korea
Laos Pathet Lao

im still researching what they exactly did, but i might, as suggested, clip the map down to just vietnam.

[gdeangel]

TOM - You're biting a lot off with that list. Let's keep it a little simpler if you would. Not every country that ever sent troops to the area will be represented on the map... e.g., I don't see how you can include Austrailia, even through they had significant presence in certain operations.

Here are some thoughts for the map-making dept:

here's about what the scope of the map could be (with a large swath of the Tailand being coverred by the instructions, etc.:


there are/were a lot of provinces of both north & south vietnam, so you don't need to worry about needing more physical territories in Laos, Cambodia, China, Thailand, etc. Here are maps of the provinces circa the time period:



As for prison camps, there were a lot of them in the North as well as Laos and (**perhaps**) other "communist" sympathetic nations. The most popularly portrayed camp, of course, would be in Hanoi. Here are a few names of camps you can research if you want to be historically accurate (probably don't try to include all, but say 6-12 camps): Son Tay, Bat Bat Prison, Xom Ap Lo PW Camp, Pho Lu Prison, Reeducation Camp 1 Hoang Lien Son Province, Ha Tay Reeducation Camp, Tra Noc Reeducation Camp, Ha Son Binh, Lai Xa Prison, Dan Hoi Barracks, Yen Bai Camp, Tan Lap Reeducation Camp, Thanh Phong Prison and Quyet Tien Prison.

Where you have fighter jets off shore, I suggest you put in aircraft carriers. Here are a few that were active in the area during the time period: USS Constallation, USS Ticonderoga, USS Forrestal, USS Ranger.

As to bases, I would not put any in the North. The north essentially waged a guerrilla war and surreptiously moved around their materials and troops in ways specifically designed to avoid bombing / US air strikes.

For the south, here a map of US bases:


and here's an image of US bases in Thailand:


That's my 2c for the mapmaking dept. I'm going to put stuff relating to gameplay mechanics below in a seperate post.

[t-o-m]

btw gdeangel is working with me on this project!
if you didnt guess!

[gdeangel]

Here's my much delayed post on gameplay:

Proposal, based on a rough plan to end up somewhere along the lines of the province maps above, would be for a total of +/- 90 territories on the map broken down as follows:

26 territories in N.Va comprised of three "continents" & 1 special zone - Viet Bac (+1), Tay Bac (+1), Coastal Provinces (+8), and Hanoi (see below for Hanoi bonus idea)

43 territories in S.Va comprised of four "continents" - Lowlands (+2), Highlands (+2), Saigon/South East (+5), Mekong Delta (+3).

Other territories to be located within or around N.Va and S.Va.

LAOS: starts neutral; borders N.VA and S.Lowlands.; contains three special territories representing POW Camps. Any army occupying Laos will get -5 autodeploy down to 1 unit each turn.

In addittion to the POW Camps in Loas, there should be 1 inside of N.VA near Hanoi (not part of the N.Va Bonus). POW Camps will have a two part bonus. All camps = +6. However, there will be a -1 bonus for each camp/<"US" staging territory> pair. This is not autodeploy, but will come out of the troops available to deploy each round.

CAMBODIA: will start neutral and will contain five territories comprising the Ho Chi Min Trail. Trail territories will have one way attack into S.Va. Cambodia will have -5 autodeploy for any units there (other than units on the trail.) "Supply Line" Bonus will be +4 for the trail + China + Hanoi.

CHINA: Just one continuous border area to the north with nothing special but being part of said supply bonus. China starts neutral and like Cambodia and Laos, has -5 autodeploy for any player untis there.

Thailand: Same deal... starts neutral with -5 autodeploy. Will contain three Air Base special territories with bombardment ability as described below.

One caveat re: above is that if you hold Hanoi, you would get a +5 autodeploy on any of Laos, Cambodia or China held (i.e., to cancel out the -5 described above).

Gulf of Tonkin: starts neutral, but no negative autodeploy. Instead, it will start with a high neutral count so that carriers cannot be used as staging to attack anything... and basically just bombard. I'm thinking 30 neutral in the gulf to start.

There will be three type of "US" staging territories:

Air bases (3): Located within Thailand, these will have ability to bombard any territori in N.Va, + Laos and Cambodia. Cannot bombard the camps or the trail. Can only be attacked in and out of Thailand.

Aircraft Carriers(3): work just like Air Bases as to bombardment, but can only attack in and out of the Gulf of Tonkin.

Air Cavalry Units(4): located one in each of the S.Va "continents", these special territories would have the ability to attack (not bombard) any territory up to 3 spaces away, including into Laos, Cambodia (but not Thailand... they'd need to be >4 spaced from Thailand).

Air bases and Carriers would not be part of any continent bonus. Air Cav would be part of whatever southern provence it was respectively physically located in. I'm thinking using something like the recognizable US 1st Cavalry Insignia would work for Air Cav...

In the north, there would be fixed "dotted line" tunnels connected certain territories to allow for a limited number of attack possibilited in the range of 2-3 spaces away.

Wow... I think that's everything. TOM, take it away my friend... if you want me to post up my chicken scratch that roughs out all this stuff visually, I will... but unfortunately due to being compu-graphic design challenged, it won't be pretty.

[greenoaks]

are you planning on doing all that on one map or two like the WW2 East & West maps ?

[gdeangel]

One map.

It all fits, even the legend, if we can size it like Bamboo Jack. (Is it me, or is the Jack map bigger than most?) Problem is that it's tall and skinny area... and in some areas the actual provences are pretty squished together, so the hardest thing is going to be getting the names to fit in the territories. After sketching things out, unless TOM is a miracle worker, it's probably have to come down to 60-70 territories on the map.

So whose going to sign up to help with the XML??

[t-o-m]

ok, we need great discussion!
lol
XML - we'll cross that when we come to it, as suggested, we will rotate the map so we can fit more things on and make 'nam bigger,

if this works out, this will be a great map, especially the gameplay, with the -5 bonuses if you go out of vietnam, this will be good, especially with ajacent forts, you will need great stratigy to get in there, use the advantage, and get out alive!
with the other countries starting neutral - infected neutral (or zombie neutrals - whatever you want to call them), anyway that would make it good, protecting your boarders from the 'invading countries' - invading countries being the 'zombies'.

hope we can pull this 1 off.

--tom

[Qwert]

So whose going to sign up to help with the XML??

Its a very long travel to Land of XML.

[greenoaks]

wouldn't it be better if you designed a map first so we can see what it will look like before you hunt down an xml guy ?

[t-o-m]

that is what i was thinking lol,

hope we do get to that stage though!

[gdeangel]

Well TOM has an updated pencil sketch and is going to parse out precise layout, coloration, boundries and other stuff. It would be nice though to have a complete project team before we go investing tons of time. At least someone in the XML dept who can do a proof-of-concept at this point, even though we don't have anything to code yet.