Darts

[MrBenn]

It would be easier if attacks weren't able to go diagonally.

How about for a gameplay quirk, you could have it so that you can only attack other territories in the same number, or with the same value... thus all the 1s could attack each other (double, triple, inner, outer), double-1 could attack inner/outer 2; triple-1 could attack inner/outer 3 etc...

That's probably a bit too complicated though, to be honest.

Perhaps it would be easier if the Inner/Outer bits only bordered the double/treble/outer bull; with the doubles/trebles bordering their neighbours.

It would be interesting to have a win objective of having a score of 501 (or 301 if it's too hard)

[RedBaron0]

It would be easier if attacks weren't able to go diagonally.

How about for a gameplay quirk, you could have it so that you can only attack other territories in the same number, or with the same value... thus all the 1s could attack each other (double, triple, inner, outer), double-1 could attack inner/outer 2; triple-1 could attack inner/outer 3 etc...

That's probably a bit too complicated though, to be honest.

Perhaps it would be easier if the Inner/Outer bits only bordered the double/treble/outer bull; with the doubles/trebles bordering their neighbours.

It would be interesting to have a win objective of having a score of 501 (or 301 if it's too hard)

If it's code-able, this could be an interesting objective map. Each area has a certain point value, if you can gain the appropriate value AND say hold the bull you would win. I think it would fit very well into the dart board theme since usually you are trying to get to a certain point value(501 or 300) playing darts. Each lane has a point value equal to the lane number value x 7(1=7; 2=14; 3=21, etc.) giving a total board value of 1470 points. Of course the backfire is gonna be there is tons of different combinations that make, for example, 501. Unless there is a way to code adding up territory values to equal a victory condition, its kinda a mote point. T'would be interesting though...

It'd be really interesting to see play if someone was OVER the point victory condition.

Benn, is something like this codeable in the current XML?

[Silent Killer]

Good looking start!
Graphical:
The board is beautiful, couple things though: the checker border overlaps the dart board on the bottom and on the left side.........

Gameplay:
Explain the movement to me a little bit. The way I interpret it is that , first you can attack......

Oh, would the entire inner ring be able to attack the Outer Bull?

Ok.. Ill address each point from each post individually I s'pose..

Graphics >>
1. Checker Border >> I agree, its horrid looking. I rushed it onto the map just so I could get it posted, but this is a definite change. A wooden-look border may do the trick, but it'll be the last thing I do, hopefully!
2. I actually had the board centered originally and moved it too far down and left, Ill correct this in the next update
3. Part of my plan was to always add errant darts to the map, I just never got around to doing that bit yet, but they shall appear at a later stage.
4. Darts >> Most dart boards Ive ever come across had this image on either side... but if its hindering the numbers, which I agree they do, then Ill try moving them or removing them altogether.
5. Bonus Stars >> Agreed, they look ugly, it was another case of placing indicators in their respective beds, this is also a definite change. Maybe a glow inside each bed of the bonus' colours perhaps??

Gameplay >>
1. I had a good read through on the link Sully provided on his attempt at creating a dart board, and it became clear very quickly that diagonal would limit the gameplay, as of from now, it will not be diagonal movement.
However, Ive not come up with a solution as to how to counter the 4-way corners yet...
This, from a gameplay pov is the biggest stumbling block imo, and will need some serious thought.
2. Re: the bull being able to attack every other terit...
I havent thought about this yet, initially I planned on having this board objective based...
Starting the game would see the outer bull with 25 neutral, and the inner bull with 50 neutral...
Maybe having the inner bull, once captured, being able to attack every other terit is a good idea, like in the Arms Race map, where once the missile is taken, it can attack all other teris..
This is a good idea me thinks...

Tnx for the feedback and suggestions Red
SK

[Silent Killer]

How about for a gameplay quirk, you could have it so that you can only attack other territories in the same number, or with the same value... thus all the 1s could attack each other (double, triple, inner, outer), double-1 could attack inner/outer 2; triple-1 could attack inner/outer 3 etc...

That's probably a bit too complicated though, to be honest.

Perhaps it would be easier if the Inner/Outer bits only bordered the double/treble/outer bull; with the doubles/trebles bordering their neighbours.

It would be interesting to have a win objective of having a score of 501 (or 301 if it's too hard)

1. Gameplay Quirk >>
I love it!!!
This is exactly the sort of "out of the box" thinking I was looking for, and it instantly cuts out the problem of the 4-way corners....
If this is possible, it would be perfect!!
Also, I think for the sake of the game not being too linear, and again, if this is doable, then players should also be allowed to attack in this way, and in reverse...

2-way attacks, instead of just 1-way...
Maybe this was part of your idea originally Benn?

Anyways, I like it... alot!!
Perfect solution.

2. Only trebles and Doubles border other continents >>
If the idea above doesn't work, then this is a valid solution, it wouldn't make a continent as hard to hold, and it reduces its borders.
This method also cuts out the 4-way corner issue.

Tnx for the feedback & suggestions Benn
___________________________________________

I have an additonal idea.....

How does everyone feel about Doubles and/or Trebles starting with neutrals, as well as the inner and outer bulls???

These are the numbers behind my thinking...
At the start of a game, in 2, 4, 5 & 8 player games, there would be 40 terits occupied by players, *none bordering each other.*
(*Based on utilising one of the above methods suggested by Mr. Benn)

The other 42 terits would be occupied with neutrals....
For example, Doubles at +2 neutral, and trebles at +3 neutral.
The Outer bull at +25 neutral and the Inner bull at +50 neutral.

Basically, it would cut straight away, the chance of one or more players picking up a bonus fresh out of the blocks.


SK

[john9blue]

viewtopic.php?f=242&t=38695&p=1001234&hilit=dartboard#p1001234

I had a dartboard thread too back in the day. Good luck on your version.

[Silent Killer]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=242&t=38695&p=1001234&hilit=dartboard#p1001234

I had a dartboard thread too back in the day. Good luck on your version.

Exactly how many times has this been attemped????


One things for sure, unless the public dont want this map to go ahead, I will complete it!!!

[mattosaurus]

OK, I really like this map idea, and the graphics are just great, (excusing the starts of course).
A couple of suggestions:
I don't think this map will need army circles. The territories are well defined enough and army circles in most cases would screw up the graphics, looking just as out of place as the stars.

Second: I would use direct on images of high class darts (not those cheap plastic ones) as the markers, and make them different colors. They wouldn't take up that much room, and you wouldn't have to add extraneous darts to the outside of the board.

[Silent Killer]

OK, I really like this map idea, and the graphics are just great, (excusing the starts of course).
A couple of suggestions:
I don't think this map will need army circles. The territories are well defined enough and army circles in most cases would screw up the graphics, looking just as out of place as the stars.

Second: I would use direct on images of high class darts (not those cheap plastic ones) as the markers, and make them different colors. They wouldn't take up that much room, and you wouldn't have to add extraneous darts to the outside of the board.

1. Army Circles >>
Im not so sure yet, Ill need to test the colours against the red and green terits particularly.
They may clash...
But if they're not needed, it would be better to save on potential clutter on the smaller map.

2. Using Darts as bonus markers >>
I want the board to be realistic, and anything around/on it will have to have realistic dimensions.
I couldn't use Darts as markers simply because they would be too big if placed on the board, they would hinder other terits and such...

Tnx for the feedback
SK

[mattosaurus]

Well, maybe you could change the color of the wire around the territory instead of having a symbol. It may look tacky, but maybe it'll look good if done well. I'd recommend shifting the color, as opposed to drawing in the color, that way it still looks like the wire.

[Silent Killer]

Well, maybe you could change the color of the wire around the territory instead of having a symbol. It may look tacky, but maybe it'll look good if done well. I'd recommend shifting the color, as opposed to drawing in the color, that way it still looks like the wire.

Colouring the wire is one option Im toying with, as well as another method of placing inner glows inside each bed.
Either one or both will be in the next update.

[MrBenn]

Personally I think the 'out shot' idea overcomplicates things - particularly if you're going to have to colour-code the segments etc.

For the gameplay, the things you need to think about are tentative bonuses for regions, and how things are going to connect.

[Tupence]

I'm in agreement with Mr B...I think the normal territory bonuses will be plenty on this map as it's already unique enough in itself due to the layout

[MichelSableheart]

Personally, I believe you should try to keep things relatively simple.

Mr. B's idea of territories with the same value being able to attack each other may sound nice, but it seems to me it will be extremely difficult when playing to figure out what can attack what. The "only cross to other numbers on doubles and trebles" idea seems a lot better.

I am not so sure if it's a good idea to make each number it's own continent. 20 continents is a lot, and each of them is relatively easy to acquire, with only one opponents starting there. It seems to me that people will just be building in the beginning, without reason to fight each other, possibly leading to stalemates later in the game, especially in no spoils or flat rate. It may be better to reduce the number of continents somewhat, possibly by combining numbers into continents (1-2. 3-4 etc, or 1-11, 2-12 etc)

There must be something very special about the bullseye. The outer bull can attack each of the continents, making it strategically extremely important, but the bullseye has no strategical relevance on it's own, as it only borders outer bull. It seems to me you should either make it an objective, or you should make it able to attack/bombard all other territories.

[Silent Killer]

Personally, I believe you should try to keep things relatively simple.

Mr. B's idea of territories with the same value being able to attack each other may sound nice, but it seems to me it will be extremely difficult when playing to figure out what can attack what. The "only cross to other numbers on doubles and trebles" idea seems a lot better.

I am not so sure if it's a good idea to make each number it's own continent. 20 continents is a lot, and each of them is relatively easy to acquire, with only one opponents starting there. It seems to me that people will just be building in the beginning, without reason to fight each other, possibly leading to stalemates later in the game, especially in no spoils or flat rate. It may be better to reduce the number of continents somewhat, possibly by combining numbers into continents (1-2. 3-4 etc, or 1-11, 2-12 etc)

There must be something very special about the bullseye. The outer bull can attack each of the continents, making it strategically extremely important, but the bullseye has no strategical relevance on it's own, as it only borders outer bull. It seems to me you should either make it an objective, or you should make it able to attack/bombard all other territories.

I like the idea of doubles and trebles being the only terits able to attack each other, but as you say, a stalemate could ensue in differing types of games.

20 continents may be alot.
But maybe a bonus can be acheived for holding any 4 numbers on the board?
Perhaps a +5 bonus...?

I think it may be better this way.

Regarding the Bullseye issue, I'd love it if we could introduce something not currently used in any of the other games... With such a big board it would be great for a unique gameplay hook.
Im not familiar with coding whatsoever, so Im already out of ideas as to what we can achieve.
Some feedback from guys in the know would be great as to how we can create a unique piece of gameplay here

Thank you for your feedback Michel
SK

[MichelSableheart]

I must admit I'm not very familiar with what has been done and what can be done. I would imagine that most obvious idea's would already be implemented on a map somewhere. Getting something completely unique will be difficult, I would imagine. Nevertheless, how do you like the following?

Armies on the bullseye defend all of your territories. Whenever one of your territories is attacked, the armies on the bullseye are effectively located in the territory under attack. You can go two ways with this. Either it means that the bullseye referts to neutral before any other territory of yours can be captured (seems interesting if the bullseye is an objective), or 1 army will always remain behind on the bullseye (the bullseye will be much easier to hold, and should probably not be an objective, but will be very important strategically).

[sully800]

Gameplay idea:

• Each wedge is a continent, but gives a bonus of only 1.
• Wedges do not connect to each other. The only way to travel to another numbered wedge is through the outer bull.
• Outer bull resets to a single neutral each turn. This ensures that no one can hold a single territory to block a bunch of continents.
• Holding the inner bull could be the objective - everyone would be very close to it and able to attack it, especially since the outer bull resets to a single.

[thenobodies80]

...Armies on the bullseye defend all of your territories. Whenever one of your territories is attacked, the armies on the bullseye are effectively located in the territory under attack...

It isn't possible to do with the current xml.

[Silent Killer]

Gameplay idea:

• Each wedge is a continent, but gives a bonus of only 1.
• Wedges do not connect to each other. The only way to travel to another numbered wedge is through the outer bull.
• Outer bull resets to a single neutral each turn. This ensures that no one can hold a single territory to block a bunch of continents.
• Holding the inner bull could be the objective - everyone would be very close to it and able to attack it, especially since the outer bull resets to a single.

Could be onto something with this....
Especially with each continent offering only 1 bonus..

However, it does make the game very restrictive, movement-wise...

[neanderpaul14]

Gameplay idea:

• Each wedge is a continent, but gives a bonus of only 1.
• Wedges do not connect to each other. The only way to travel to another numbered wedge is through the outer bull.
• Outer bull resets to a single neutral each turn. This ensures that no one can hold a single territory to block a bunch of continents.
• Holding the inner bull could be the objective - everyone would be very close to it and able to attack it, especially since the outer bull resets to a single.

Could be onto something with this....
Especially with each continent offering only 1 bonus..

However, it does make the game very restrictive, movement-wise...

I like it however I agree with SK, perhaps to make it less restrictive the outer ring, I believe it's the double area, could attack the adjacent doubles.

[MichelSableheart]

Ok, appearantly the XML is a lot more restrictive then I thought.

Personally, I like the idea of each number being worth a +1 bonus.

If you don't want the bullseye to be the objective, you could also say that the bullseye doubles your income from bonusses. In other words, if you hold a wedge, you'll get +1; if you hold a wedge+bullseye, you'll get +2.

That should be possible. For each number, make a continent of that number+bullseye, which overrides the original continent.

Movement between wedges only being possible through the bull also seems like a logical idea to me. Should you choose to implement that, you could also connect all doubles to the bullseye instead of to their neighbours. Perhaps you should do that anyway, simply to make the two of them equally relevant.

[skillfusniper33]

I like the idea a lot, and looking at this, what if the bulls eye could possibly bombard like the doubles ring, and the bulls eye would start out neutral.

[Silent Killer]

Tnx for the idea's guys, keep 'em coming.

Ill take a good look at each one and give feedback on my thoughts.

I'd really like to move to the next phase on this, so Im hoping we can come to an arrangement regarding gameplay soonish.

Tnx
SK

[thenobodies80]

Hey SilentKiller
Nice work...absolutely the right way
A question:
All regions are in the starting pot or there're some starting neutrals?

[captainwalrus]

the bull's eye should start nutural.

[thenobodies80]

Reading your first post, i think you want to code the bull and the bull's eye as starting neutral...it's good.

i think: pink +3 instead of +4 and maybe the blue +4 instead of +5 (but it could be different with a big neutral)

Gameplay idea:

• Each wedge is a continent, but gives a bonus of only 1....

Agree.