Czecho Slovak Fragmentation [Quenched]

[Oneyed]

updated legend.

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Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

Files have been sent!

Nobodies

[Jippd]

will reducing the praha and bratislava neutrals from n3 to n2 help the negative bonus to play a bigger part? should we risk damaging the successful tournament experience that chapcrap has had?

ian.

I agree that it is important to try to have all aspects of the map come into play. I see that a lot of research regarding whether or not these regions come into play for 1 v 1 has been done but what about standard and team games?

I don't think changes should be made just based on a 1 v 1 aspect. I think it is best to try to think about each type of game play including 1 v 1, standard with multiple players and team games.

I personally do not have the time to do this research but I think it is something good to think about.

[Oneyed]

will reducing the praha and bratislava neutrals from n3 to n2 help the negative bonus to play a bigger part? should we risk damaging the successful tournament experience that chapcrap has had?

ian.

I agree that it is important to try to have all aspects of the map come into play. I see that a lot of research regarding whether or not these regions come into play for 1 v 1 has been done but what about standard and team games?

I don't think changes should be made just based on a 1 v 1 aspect. I think it is best to try to think about each type of game play including 1 v 1, standard with multiple players and team games.

I personally do not have the time to do this research but I think it is something good to think about.

well I did not any research for results, but I think now is map set up fine. not even for 1v1 because when I played it with more players the capitals were not important.

thanks for help

Oneyed

[iancanton]

the difficulty with trying to analyse multi-player games is that, of the few games that are created each day on this map, there are more 1v1 games than all of the rest put together. trench seems to be relatively more popular here than on other maps, so maybe i can put together some figures for trench.

of the previously-analysed format (1v1, auto-placement, sequential, escalating, chained, sunny, non-trench games), only 5 games so far have used the xml with n2 for the two capitals, starting from Game 13091761, so we cannot draw any firm conclusions yet. bratislava was the sole capital taken in 2 games and neither capital was occupied in 3 games; praha was ignored in every game. no-one received a bonus from the drop. player 1 won 4 out of 5 (80%).

in Game 13091761, the game log shows: 2013-08-19 16:14:01 - pamoa received 2 troops for holding Bratislava and 4 Towns. pamoa held 8 towns, so u'll have to think of a way to describe this bonus in the xml that makes more sense.

ian.

[Gilligan]

in Game 13091761, the game log shows: 2013-08-19 16:14:01 - pamoa received 2 troops for holding Bratislava and 4 Towns. pamoa held 8 towns, so u'll have to think of a way to describe this bonus in the xml that makes more sense.

ian.

Good catch...I'd say "Bratislava and Towns" would be sufficient (same for Praha)

[Oneyed]

hm, in xml is wrote "Bratislava and 4 Towns". do not know why it not works...

ian, thanks for analyse. do you think that in this stage could be bonuses changed? to make capitals more popular, more needed?

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

oneyed, the xml works as it is, they are jsut saying to change the bonus name in the xml.
"Bratislava and 4 Towns" must be changed into "Bratislava and Towns"
"Praha and 4 Towns" must be changed into "Praha and Towns"

in few words remove the number from the bonus name so it is consistent with games where player has more than 4 towns. It's just a name thing because the name is unique for the whole collection and the collection could be bigger than 4 towns.

Nobodies

[Oneyed]

thanks nobodies. here is edited xml.

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.

Oneyed

[Dukasaur]

what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.

Oneyed

Yeah, either of those might make the capitals more desirable.

[DoomYoshi]

I know my opinion is super minority on this site. But I always vote for not having starting neutrals except in rare cases. Don't adjust the bonus, adjust let me start with a capital. Not envy map should be like Pearl Harbor, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more.

[Dukasaur]

I know my opinion is super minority on this site. But I always vote for not having starting neutrals except in rare cases. Don't adjust the bonus, adjust let me start with a capital. Not envy map should be like Pearl Harbor, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more.

That would be my preference too, but the blue hats won't hear of it.

[chapcrap]

what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.

Oneyed

I would make it an autodeploy. But, I'm not sure that +1 is enough. I think that +2 is better.

[puppydog85]

Just dropping in to say that I like the map a lot- Play on it is nice.

Uneducated opinion is that I like the capital bonus but I have not played it a lot

[Oneyed]

I know my opinion is super minority on this site. But I always vote for not having starting neutrals except in rare cases. Don't adjust the bonus, adjust let me start with a capital. Not envy map should be like Pearl Harbor, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more.

That would be my preference too, but the blue hats won't hear of it.

the capitals are key for bonus, so if any player will start with capital it is possible (most probably in 1v1 or 3, 4 players games) that that player will has also bonus from start.

what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.

Oneyed

I would make it an autodeploy. But, I'm not sure that +1 is enough. I think that +2 is better.

+2 looks a little much, I think.

Just dropping in to say that I like the map a lot- Play on it is nice.

Uneducated opinion is that I like the capital bonus but I have not played it a lot

thank you.

well, with Jippd and Dukasaur we will play some games and try find the best way for bonuses.

Oneyed

[iancanton]

when u did the 8.9.13 xml update, why did u change the neutrals for praha and bratislava from n2 to n3? i think the neutrals changed from n2 to n3 at about Game 1360000. this makes the capitals useless again.

ian.

[Oneyed]

when u did the 8.9.13 xml update, why did u change the neutrals for praha and bratislava from n2 to n3? i think the neutrals changed from n2 to n3 at about Game 1360000. this makes the capitals useless again.

ian.

I didn´t ian. in the very first post is long time updated current xml with n2 for capital.

Oneyed

[iancanton]

all games from Game 13613296 onward have started with praha and bratislava having n3 neutrals, so i think we uploaded the xml file that u attached to the post dated 2013-10-05. is that the wrong one? Game 13613296 started on 2013-11-21.

ian.

[Oneyed]

all games from Game 13613296 onward have started with praha and bratislava having n3 neutrals, so i think we uploaded the xml file that u attached to the post dated 2013-10-05. is that the wrong one? Game 13613296 started on 2013-11-21.

ian.

the very first post was edited on 6. 10. 2013 and here is what is wrote in xml:

show

Oneyed

[iancanton]

the xml in the first post has n2 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and 4 towns. Game 13612253, initialised on 2013-11-18, was the last game to use this xml.

the current xml, which is the one on page 43 that is attached to ur post of 2013-10-05, has n3 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and towns. Game 13613296, initialised on 2013-11-21, and all later games use the bratislava and towns xml.

ian.

[thenobodies80]

Now, which xml needs to go live?
Give me a link and I will make sure that the file is uploaded asap.

Nobodies

[Oneyed]

the xml in the first post has n2 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and 4 towns. Game 13612253, initialised on 2013-11-18, was the last game to use this xml.

the current xml, which is the one on page 43 that is attached to ur post of 2013-10-05, has n3 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and towns. Game 13613296, initialised on 2013-11-21, and all later games use the bratislava and towns xml.

ian.

let´s help me to understand this. so both xml mentioned by you are wrong, yes? one because n3 for capitals, the second because Bratislava and 4 towns?...

Now, which xml needs to go live?
Give me a link and I will make sure that the file is uploaded asap.

Nobodies

thanks nobodies, just give me a little time to have clear in this

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

this should be fine xml. capitals are codded as n2 and their bonus is codded as Capital and Towns.
thanks ian for help.
so nobodies here is xml:

Oneyed

[Jippd]

I think if you want the capitals to come into play more oneyed you should make them into a +1 autodeploy and keep the rest of the bonus structure the same.

In the 3 player game we are in right now it seems holding kraj's will come into play. The more people you add the harder it will be to get bonues. If you have an autodeploy (1 defensive position) it is easier to hold and will be appealing to more players. This might encourage people to take and try to hold the capitals more thus bringing them into play.

Out of the changes you suggested I prefer making the capitals +1 AD and keeping the rest of the bonus structure the same.