Africa II [SoS Africa Reward Map]

[thenobodies80]

Map Name: Africa II
Mapmaker(s): thenobodies80 (Graphics) - koontz1973 (xml) - iancanton & Victor Sullivan (gameplay)
Number of Territories: (15 continents, 47 territories)

XML: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/1/27/3255536/Africa3.xml
Map Images:

Click image to enlarge.

show: OLD

Link to SOS Africa Charity Drive http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=166898

Special Thanks to AndyDufresne

[natty dread]

Ok first of all, I have to say this map looks great otherwise, but I really dislike the font.

[fluffybunnykins]

interesting map but the link from the home page seems to be broken:-

http://www.conquerclub.com/www.conquerc ... 4&t=167953
..........^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[thenobodies80]

yeah going to fix it

edit:fixed

[IcePack]

Ok first of all, I have to say this map looks great otherwise, but I really dislike the font.

I agree, my only complaint is the font on territory names.

[chapcrap]

Can we post the images of the map so they can actually be seen in the thread?

[Gilligan]

Can the elephant look a bit more like an elephant? Like stick his trunk out or something?

[ironsij0287]

I find the region colors around the animals a bit hard to see.

[Gillipig]

Can the elephant look a bit more like an elephant? Like stick his trunk out or something?

Yeah give the elephant his trunk back !
This map looks so much better than the other special maps! I don't like the border around the hippos and elephants though. Try with a grey tone.
How long did time have you worked on this map? When did the ideas around it start?

[PL]

I find the region colors around the animals a bit hard to see.

agreed.

[thenobodies80]

Ok first of all, I have to say this map looks great otherwise, but I really dislike the font.

I agree, my only complaint is the font on territory names.

Suggestions? What font would you like to see on teh map?

Can the elephant look a bit more like an elephant? Like stick his trunk out or something?

Yeah give the elephant his trunk back !
This map looks so much better than the other special maps! I don't like the border around the hippos and elephants though. Try with a grey tone.
How long did time have you worked on this map? When did the ideas around it start?

Will do!

I find the region colors around the animals a bit hard to see.

agreed.

I know that for someone could be hard to see colors (during the development we tried stronger colors but they look terrible/clash with the rest), that's why we have different animal icons on the map!

[cairnswk]

Good start everyone.

However, given the recent discussion about special maps that in the past have not gone through the foundry process, why is this map in Final Forge, and not going through the gameplay and graphics process like every other map has to do? Simply because a couple of guys have looked at gameplay and there are some nice graphics, the map doesn't yet have foundry stamps, so i am a bit a bit of a quandry on why this has been allowed to jump to final forge. Once again, i could say it would have the same "odour" about it if it is allowed to have this "jump" status.

I beleive it should be going through the process and gain stamps just like every other map has to.

Here are some other concerns I have.

1. I have to say I'd prefer to see "Nations" instead of "States", even though i see that both mean almost the same thing, however i feel "Nations" has more a whole feeling to it, whereas "States" also has a within whole connotation to it meaning it can be part of another nation...semantics i know, but i feel Nations would be more appropriate. Also the word community seems out of place when indeed these are also nations.

2. your design brief at the top seems incomplete....
Your aims/design style?
Uniqueness?


3. The title is too close to the right hand border, and doesn't have the same spacing that it has on the top side. I can appreciate that it is probably trying to be fit on the land mass there, but it simply looks odd to me.

4. I agree also some of the animal images could be improved in size, especially the giraffes, they are smaller than the elephants and rhinos and monkeys.

5. The bridges could be done better, perhaps in a different "African graphic flavour" rather than being a rectangle

6. the bonus legend border seems incomplete given that the nice frame doesn't go all the way around and yet there is plenty of room to fit it.

7. Why are the what appears to forests so large? Some of them take up the space of almost entire countires, and look like clumps of moss rather than forests.

8. i had to really squint to read the "specal thanks" text.

9. what are the shadow graphics inside the legend? one looks like giraffes up top and a man running down bottom, but the middle one looks like i don't know what....are these also really needed?

10. i think the sub-bonus numbers could be a little larger.

11. I realise there may also be some space problems, but putting some nations in and leaving others out i think is a no-no...Malawi, Burundi, Rwanda etc. i think there is space to include them, even if they have to be combined like you have done with Ghana and Togo...but what happened with Equitorial Guinea - it has mainland territory also. You've also included the Seychelles etc, but what about Cape Verde? The Gambia could be included with Senegal - yes?

12. my knowlege of the Nile says that it connects to Lake Victoria...yours doesn't, yet you have a good representation of the Congo in place, why not the Nile? There is also no Blue Nile.

"The Nile has two major tributaries, the White Nile and Blue Nile. The White Nile is longer and rises in the Great Lakes region of central Africa, with the most distant source still undetermined but located in either Rwanda or Burundi. It flows north through Tanzania, Lake Victoria, Uganda and South Sudan. The Blue Nile is the source of most of the water and fertile soil. It begins at Lake Tana in Ethiopia at 12°02′09″N 037°15′53″E and flows into Sudan from the southeast. The two rivers meet near the Sudanese capital of Khartoum."...wiki

The main reason i say all this is that you seem to have included some rivers fully and tributaries which act as impassables but then one tributary in DR Congo has no use and creates a piece of land that has no name...esp. if the forest in Zambia connects with Lake Tanganyika

13. what is the white clump between Kenya and Tanzania sitting above that forest?

14. tbh..i think you could also give graphic representaton to the impassables since there appears to be room. i initally looked at the Sahara and thought "why the magets?" until i read the impassables about dunes...Oh

Overall, some improvement needed.

PS...i have no issues with the fonts used

[thenobodies80]

why is this map in Final Forge, and not going through the gameplay and graphics process like every other map has to do?

This map is in the forge because special maps, developed behind the scenes under request of admins, will be always placed in the final forge, like contest maps. I'm tired to discuss again a thing that is decided by the owner of this site.

1. I have to say I'd prefer to see "Nations" instead of "States", even though i see that both mean almost the same thing, however i feel "Nations" has more a whole feeling to it, whereas "States" also has a within whole connotation to it meaning it can be part of another nation...semantics i know, but i feel Nations would be more appropriate. Also the word community seems out of place when indeed these are also nations.

I used states for this reason --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_C ... can_States

2. your design brief at the top seems incomplete....
Your aims/design style?
Uniqueness?

See my first answer.

3. The title is too close to the right hand border, and doesn't have the same spacing that it has on the top side. I can appreciate that it is probably trying to be fit on the land mass there, but it simply looks odd to me.

Debatable...I think the title is ok in the current position

4. I agree also some of the animal images could be improved in size, especially the giraffes, they are smaller than the elephants and rhinos and monkeys.

Agree with who? The others are speaking about the colored glove around them. (elephant excluded)

5. The bridges could be done better, perhaps in a different "African graphic flavour" rather than being a rectangle

Reasonable, I will see what I can do.

6. the bonus legend border seems incomplete given that the nice frame doesn't go all the way around and yet there is plenty of room to fit it.

Again debatable....i really prefer in that way.

7. Why are the what appears to forests so large? Some of them take up the space of almost entire countires, and look like clumps of moss rather than forests.

No comment, this one is just because you're angry for the map developed behind the scenes, in any case i really like the forest as they are so i won't change them without a valid reason that is not just matter of opinion.

8. i had to really squint to read the "specal thanks" text.

So? Now signatures and special thanks are an issue?

. what are the shadow graphics inside the legend? one looks like giraffes up top and a man running down bottom, but the middle one looks like i don't know what....are these also really needed?

Yes they are needed, the legend was really empty without them, ask to those who see it without them.

10. i think the sub-bonus numbers could be a little larger.

Space is tight and they are readable imo. Anyway noted, if others complain about them I'll find a solution.

11. I realise there may also be some space problems, but putting some nations in and leaving others out i think is a no-no...Malawi, Burundi, Rwanda etc. i think there is space to include them, even if they have to be combined like you have done with Ghana and Togo...but what happened with Equitorial Guinea - it has mainland territory also. You've also included the Seychelles etc, but what about Cape Verde? The Gambia could be included with Senegal - yes?

Gameplay was discussed a lot behind the scenes, but I'll ask to iancanton or Victor Sullivan to explain why we decided to do things in this way.

12. my knowlege of the Nile says that it connects to Lake Victoria...yours doesn't, yet you have a good representation of the Congo in place, why not the Nile? There is also no Blue Nile.

To make thing clear, I had it on a first draft, removed for better understanding of the map.

13. what is the white clump between Kenya and Tanzania sitting above that forest?

Never heard about killimangiaro?

14. tbh..i think you could also give graphic representaton to the impassables since there appears to be room. i initally looked at the Sahara and thought "why the magets?" until i read the impassables about dunes...Oh

As you said there's a legend.


Now, feel free to think what you want...but as I explained in past the special maps now are posted in the forge in case we have big gameplay issues or heavy graphics problems, not to go throught the whole process. I state this clear from now, I'm not going to redraw teh whole map because you don't like a thing. So if there's a serious issue, that's fine and I'll try to improve things, like the elephant icon or the font.
But if I have to read post like yours I will ignore them, since i think that are written just because you don't like the idea someone can be asked by admins to develop a map outside the foundry process (I would like to remind you the reason because i did this). I worked really hard to create the best possible map (that imo is much much better than many other maps we have quenched recently) as reward for a charity drive and i really think you don't think the 99% of what you wrote about the map.

Again, if you can't live with the idea that sometimes maps can developed behind the scenes (specially for a such reason), with a different system....then i don't know what to say except "learn to live with it ".

Now, it's really late here I'll re read your post again tomorrow, maybe I misunderstood "the mood" behind your post, but right now I don't read words that can come from the cairnswk i know, right now you sounds more like DiM on your rail asia thread to give you an idea.
But if you're serious and there's no angry/revenge in what you wrote....let me say sorry for my words, I'll try to do my best to solve the reasonable and real issues (not saying i'm going to do a whole revamp, since final forge is supposed just for nitpicks).

As said learn to live with this special maps thing, things change with time, mate.

Nobodies

[cairnswk]

...
Now, it's really late here I'll re read your post again tomorrow, maybe I misunderstood "the mood" behind your post, but right now I don't read words that can come from the cairnswk i know, right now you sounds more like DiM on your rail asia thread to give you an idea.
But if you're serious and there's no angry/revenge in what you wrote....let me say sorry for my words, I'll try to do my best to solve the reasonable and real issues (not saying i'm going to do a whole revamp, since final forge is supposed just for nitpicks).

As said learn to live with this special maps thing, things change with time, mate.

Nobodies

Mmmm. Well mate! What do i make of that. That's not the same helping tnb80 that i know either, regardless of how late it is and how hard you've worked.
Perhaps i missed the boat on the special maps policy, and i certainly have no issue with special maps if the owner of the site wants them, but i don't think that excludes you regardless of your status from having the map combed through.
I'm sorry that you had to attach rail asia and dim to this, cos that was furtherest from my mind when i posted and i had hoped we had moved on from that since i had fixed those issues, but there you go, obviously some haven't.

You must've been in one hell of a fowl mood, either that or you don't like your maps being "gone through" like the rest of us have to experience. Otherwise i have to say that why didn't you just put the map up for beta and forget final forge.

I hope you re-read my post with a touch of helping hand idealism that i can see these things that i posted could do with improvement.

[natty dread]

Suggestions? What font would you like to see on teh map?

A handwritten font is fine if that's the style you want to go with but try to find something a bit less comic sans like. I don't remember the name of this particular font you're using, I remember it's one Pork&beans used to use in every map attempt of his, and I think it's a really crappy font that shouldn't be used anywhere - it's one of those "attempts to be fun & whimsical" type of fonts that really fit in better to a church newsletter than any serious graphical work...

But anyway. If you want suggestions I could suggest something like these:

http://www.dafont.com/designer-notes.font
http://www.dafont.com/marker-sd.font

[koontz1973]

But anyway. If you want suggestions I could suggest something like these:

http://www.dafont.com/designer-notes.font
http://www.dafont.com/marker-sd.font

The Designer Notes is not very nice, also; the extra details would be lost. Marker SD is so similar, is it really worth changing it over?

[Hatchman]

Congrats on a very gorgeous map!

[natty dread]

But anyway. If you want suggestions I could suggest something like these:

http://www.dafont.com/designer-notes.font
http://www.dafont.com/marker-sd.font

The Designer Notes is not very nice, also; the extra details would be lost. Marker SD is so similar, is it really worth changing it over?

You're wrong, they're not similar at all, and both are much better than the current font.

[koontz1973]

But anyway. If you want suggestions I could suggest something like these:

http://www.dafont.com/designer-notes.font
http://www.dafont.com/marker-sd.font

The Designer Notes is not very nice, also; the extra details would be lost. Marker SD is so similar, is it really worth changing it over?

You're wrong, they're not similar at all, and both are much better than the current font.

This is the one great thing about the foundry. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is right.

Only politics can equal the foundry in this.

[natty dread]

But anyway. If you want suggestions I could suggest something like these:

http://www.dafont.com/designer-notes.font
http://www.dafont.com/marker-sd.font

The Designer Notes is not very nice, also; the extra details would be lost. Marker SD is so similar, is it really worth changing it over?

You're wrong, they're not similar at all, and both are much better than the current font.

This is the one great thing about the foundry. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is right.

Only politics can equal the foundry in this.

No, I'm saying I'm objectively right and you're wrong. Objectively. There's no opinion involved. It's just a simple fact, a truth if you will, that I am absolutely, 100% right.

[koontz1973]

And, I'm saying I'm objectively right and you're wrong. Objectively. There's no opinion involved. It's just a simple fact, a truth if you will, that I am absolutely, 100% right.

[thenobodies80]

I like marker-sd more

Here an update, also with a different elephant.
For the rest we will see, right now I'm not in the right mood to spend my free time on this for a while (this is the 40th version i think, but yes, just because you can't see the others you can think i did everything in 5 minutes).
Anyway , i don't want to be a pita so I shut up now, as said I'm in a bad mood.

Let me know if you like the new font, I'll update also the legend accordingly (or is it ok?)........... when I have time.

Click image to enlarge.

Nobodies

[natty dread]

The new font looks much better.

Objectively.

[AndyDufresne]

I liked the old font, but if people prefer this one, go for it.


--Andy

[koontz1973]

I liked the old font, but if people prefer this one, go for it.


--Andy

Same here, but here is my reasons why,

E in Egypt looks funny.
Small e looks like a funny c as there is no space at the top.
Small i, the dot is so small it cannot be seen clearly, so on the small map, will look even worse.
Small s looks like a bad c, just like the e.
The & in Ghana and Togo looks like a different font completely.
Small t is as small as the small letters.

And there are many more issues with this font. nobodies had a great font that worked. Go back please or find another.