Berlin 1961 [Quenched]

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Berlin 1961 [Quenched]

Postby oaktown on Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:37 pm

This is the most recent version of the map. Basic info is below. Please check the latest posts for updates, to-do lists, concerns, reflections, hopes, dreams, etc.

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40 territories.
4 territories begin neutral: those holding the airfields and the artillery.
Wall is unpassable except where indicated between checkpoint territories.
River is unpassable except where indicated by bridges.
Large map size: 750 x 580.
Small map size: 600 x 464 (see page 13 for small map).
Army shadow sizes: 24 pixels L, 20 pixels S (coordinates on page 15)
Bonuses awarded for:
• holding airfields (direct territorial bonus)
• holding all western checkpoints
• holding all russian checkpoints
• holding a MAJORITY of territories within a Sector
The russian tank gun can bombard but not occupy western checkpoints.

You're wondering, what's behind the idea of giving a bonus for holding the majority of a sector rather than the entire thing?
1. it allows me to stay with the four historically accurate sectors,
2. it will make for more open play, as players can be creative about putting their own "continent" together
3. it encourages players to actively fight over one sector, as just one territory can mean the difference between a bonus or nothing,
4. it would make for interesting doubles play, as partners could work together to secure a sector and still receive a bonus for the player with the majority of zones, and
5. it's never been done.

The idea behind the graphics is to make it look like a map that could've been printed in 1961.
Last edited by oaktown on Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:43 am, edited 55 times in total.
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Postby edbeard on Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:49 pm

Is there a bridge missing for that lower left green territory?

Will the monument bonus only go with 5, 6, or 7 held? It seems you've set it up that way. I'd like it to go a bit lower to 3 or 4.

I think the setup you have is fairly good so far. But, I really need time to reflect on it properly.

I'm guessing the bonus structure will have the lower right red being +2 or +1 with the purple and blue being +2 or +3.

I'm slightly concerned about needing to hold almost all of green and wonder what type of bonus you'll give it, but I suppose there should be tough continents like that.
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Postby misterman10 on Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:33 pm

I like the idea overall. Some quick suggestions though:
1) The landmarks and bonuses. In my opinion, I think holding 5, 6, 7 landmarks in order to get a bonus will be very tough and thus make the landmarks somewhat unnecessary. I think getting a bonus for holding 3, 4, or maybe even 2 would be better
2) As for the continents and their bonuses, I think defending yellow and green would be next to impossible. They would need huge bonuses, such as +10 or something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in green, you would have to defend EVERY SINGLE territory to hold the bonus and in yellow all but one. Those problems need to be fixed.

Other than that, I think it would be pretty fun and playable
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Postby oaktown on Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:58 pm

misterman10 wrote:As for the continents and their bonuses, I think defending yellow and green would be next to impossible. They would need huge bonuses, such as +10 or something.

Yeah, I've had it in mind for some time to do a city map, but cities are difficult in that there aren't a lot of impassable borders like rivers or mountains.

An option would be to go back in time a bit and add the wall, which would cut down from the top of the map, cross the Spree, along the east side of the park between the green and yellow sections, and off the right edge of the map.

As for giving bonuses for fewer landmarks - probably a good idea, though it means I have a lot of coding to do. :shock:
Last edited by oaktown on Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby edbeard on Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:31 am

oaktown wrote:As for giving bonuses for fewer landmarks - probably a good idea, though it means I have a lot of coding to do. :shock:

actually there's new-ish features in the XML now that allows this code to be MUCH shorter. maybe someone can find it for you, or you can take the initiative to look around the map forum. I forget where it is shown exactly (there are a couple XML threads).
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:36 pm

The Map Making Tools thread has a link to the XML Tutorial.
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Postby oaktown on Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:18 pm

right, I found the new XML options earlier... the partial territories option is a nice addition which wasn't around when I was working on my previous map. Bonuses are easily do-able for holding 3 or 4 monuments.

that said, any further thoughts on the map idea? the lack of interest doesn't bode well. I'll rework the map to represent cold war berlin and see how that looks, with the wall as impassable border.
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Postby edbeard on Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:23 pm

it's the weekend, and to be honest not many maps get tons of feedback in the map ideas forum. You'd get more feedback if your map was more "complete" bonus structure setup, landmarks made, territory names etc..


I think using the Berlin Wall is a very cool idea and look forward to seeing the update
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Postby Teya on Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:54 pm

the colours and style you have are too much like the san francisco map for me at the moment.
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Postby KEYOGI on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:26 am

I like the idea of including the wall and aiming for a Cold War theme. Perhaps you can rework your style a bit to reflect a more serious and dark time? The map is remarkably similar to the SF map in apprearance at the moment.
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Postby steve monkey on Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:24 am

I think that a Cold War theme will work well for this map. One route you could take could be on the theme of the Berlin Airlift with airfields, drop zones etc. Alternatively, you could go for a Berlin Wall theme - escape routes, guard towers etc
Hope you find these ideas helpful.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:17 am

the cold war was a sad time, yet you have bright colors and smiley faces....its a good first draft though, and a great idea!
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Postby Coleman on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:20 am

I like it.
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Postby DiM on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:38 am

the style doesn't fit the theme and doesn't fit the city

let me explain. first of all the cold war was a fight between 2 forces. i don't see those 2 forces. all i see is a bunch of semi transparent colors put over a monochromatic satellite image. so the theme is not well portrayed.
second the city. in the san francisco map this style works because the city is very easy to recognize because of it's geographical features whilst here you could put any city and claim it is berlin we won't know.


what i would do.

cold war theme is great but add a twist to it both gameplay wise as well as graphic wise.


make the berlin split in 2 the communists and the democrats.
now split each half in 2. you'll get 4 quarters.
make each quarter a continent as each side sees the other in a satirical way.

1. democratic quarter as democrats see it. the place of all possibilities where everybody has a chance to succeed.
2. democratic quarter as communists see it. a place of moral decadence with temptations everywhere that transform the hard working comrade into a decadent pig.
3. communist quarter as communists see it. a heaven for hard working comrades where everybody is equal and happy.
4. communist quarter as democrats see it. a place of misery and slavery where people are sad and gloomy


make the graphics in a bright colored cartoonish style
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Postby hulmey on Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:44 am

yep style aint right for a cold war theme111
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Postby Coleman on Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:47 am

It's the right style for the city itself during that era though. The suggestions are bit much for my fuzzy mind to wrap around right now though.
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Postby oaktown on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:22 pm

thanks for all the input, which has seemed to ignore the facts that (1.) the initial draft was not meant to reflect a cold war theme but was a contemporary tourist map of the city, and (2.) I'd specifically asked you all not to comment on look but on playability. :roll:

Regardless, I am scrapping the initial draft for a cold war era map that shows the city divided into four sectors (French, English, American, and Russian), as well as the wall with checkpoints which can be captured and collected for bonuses. Going cold war opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for graphics... I figued this is the way the map would go from the start, but I had the tourist map in my head and I had to play it out. Another update in a few days.
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Postby oaktown on Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:09 pm

Alright, let's try this again: I'm posting a second version of the map, as I'm now working on a cold-war version of Berlin.

Please note that I do not want feedback about the graphics, fonts, arrows, colors, etc. It's all temporary. I would like to first nail down the playability of the map, at which point I will be able to play around with giving the map a 1960s cold war look.

Rivers are in blue, with arrows noting where bridges will go. The wall is in black, with arrows noting where checkpoints will be. I'm playing with the idea of making the checkpoints territories which start neutral.

Clearly the Tiergarten and Mitte regions will be difficult to hold, but that's the central part of the city and it should be where the battles rage. Schonberg is all border, but might work as a plus two for only three territories.

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Postby Bad Speler on Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:20 pm

oaktown wrote:Clearly the Tiergarten and Mitte regions will be difficult to hold, but that's the central part of the city and it should be where the battles rage.

If the battle is supposed to rage between these two parts of town, shouldnt there be connections between the two through the wall?

Otherwise, playability looks good on this map
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Postby KEYOGI on Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:48 pm

There are a lot of border territories, for example Mitte has 7 territories, 6 of them borders. Perhaps work on making continents easier to hold?
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Postby oaktown on Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:05 pm

KEYOGI wrote:There are a lot of border territories, for example Mitte has 7 territories, 6 of them borders. Perhaps work on making continents easier to hold?

that's been the problem all along with doing a city... this draft is an improvement over the first map I posted because I think the mitte problem is abated by the fact that one could hold all of east german (mitte + prenzlauer) by holding only the four wall crossings.

Anyway, who goes after the biggest, most central continent first on any map? You take Australia first, then spread into Asia.
Bad Speler wrote:If the battle is supposed to rage between these two parts of town, shouldnt there be connections between the two through the wall?

Historically there should be a checkpoint between tiergarten and mitte, but I left it out because then it creates yet another border for Tiergarten to hold. :(

I didn't say the battle would rage between these two parts of town, but in them. Mitte and Tiergarten are the hearts of East and West Berlim respectively, and should allow for somewhat open play, rather than the bottlenecks we see in some of the new maps (Battle for Australia, Carribean Islands, etc). These two central and admittedly difficult to hold continents are ringed by five smaller continents that are defendable in two or three places - I'll play with making the five peripheral continents mor attractive.
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Postby Simonov on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:08 am

here is some help:

Image

like the idea but think it shows too small portion of the city
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Postby oaktown on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:36 pm

A few changes:
• made Tiergarten smaller and with fewer border territories.
• added a border crossing to the center of the map.
• Kreuzberg is bigger, to maintain 36 territories (divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6,).
• note the silly planes, showing location of airports... maybe a bonus for holding both airports?
• figured out names for territories.

Still toying with the ideas of having wall checkpoints as neutral-starting territories, which would push us up to 41.

Tear it apart! :)

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Postby ihatepigs123456 on Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:55 pm

i think u should get rid of the crossing from gesundbrunen to schonhauserallee and divied nauener for tatical resons
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Postby oaktown on Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:10 pm

thanks... I'm starting over using a map of the entire city. At this site we are used to maps with some exterior shape, so lifting a rectangle out of the center of a region looks odd. I'm also going not going to post anything until I have decided upon a stylistic approach - it's difficult even for me to look past the graphics and consider playability. Maybe in a few days...
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