Duck & Cover [Quenched]

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Duck & Cover [Quenched]

Postby oaktown on Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:13 pm

Done and done.
xml: http://h1.ripway.com/rparodi/duck.xml
large map: http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/ ... over24.jpg
small map: http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/ ... ver24S.jpg

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Issues currently being discussed
None.

Background:
This is something I came up with while working on Berlin - 1950s Atomic Age meets Doodle Earth. Yes, this is intended to be a small map, so please take that into consideration before you flame me. :D

The basics:
24 territories, and I intend to keep it that way
Six bonus regions; bonus amounts make sense to me, but I'm open to discussion.
Bombardments: russian planes can bombard but not occupy red clouds/targets, american planes can bombard yellow clouds.
Large map (shown): 675 x 675.
Small map: 575x575.

The map borrows from the Duck And Cover movie from the 1950s, which is now in the public domain; it was copyrighted prior to 1964 and the copyright was never renewed, so I'm cool on the turtle artwork. The song lyrics have been rewritten to avoid copyright entanglements, and to make them CC specific.

For posterity, here's the original draft:
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Last edited by oaktown on Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:26 am, edited 42 times in total.
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Postby militant on Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:19 pm

I love it :D
Last edited by militant on Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby keiths31 on Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:38 pm

I can't get the song out of my head now...
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Postby Coleman on Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:05 pm

This is full of win, but what the turtle said confused me. I don't see any Eastern Europe.
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
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Postby oaktown on Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:41 pm

Coleman wrote:This is full of win, but what the turtle said confused me. I don't see any Eastern Europe.

oops - i was going back and forth between eastern bloc and eastern europe, and ended up with a little of each. it'll be the same thing.

bonuses, attack routes, and borders can certainly be changed. Europe's bonus will certainly be up for debate, but i was working with Doodle as a basic guideline and that map gives a +2 for Africa, which is similar to this europe: 3 terits, two borders, each border has two potential attackers. Overall I'd say the bonuses on this map are less than those one doodle, and this map is four territories bigger.

If anyone is curious about why 22, my sense is that most Doodle games are two player... 22 is the max starting territories that doesn't give the player who goes first an advantage by dropping four. In a 3 player game there would only be one neutral, four player 2. Anybody who wants to play a five or six player game on a tiny map can suck it up and deal with the neutrals. :wink:
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Postby DiM on Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:54 pm

oaktown wrote:If anyone is curious about why 22, my sense is that most Doodle games are two player... 22 is the max starting territories that doesn't give the player who goes first an advantage by dropping four. In a 3 player game there would only be one neutral, four player 2. Anybody who wants to play a five or six player game on a tiny map can suck it up and deal with the neutrals. :wink:


actually you're a bit wrong here. the max number of terits a map can have without putting the first player at an advantage is 33.
this way in 2 player games there will be 11 for p1 11 for p2 and 11 neutral.

if you're wondering why i decided to talk about this before any other aspect is because i feel this map deserves more terits. much more. i'd personally like around 60. i feel 22 is too low.
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Nice

Postby Piestar on Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:23 pm

I love the look, but I'm not sure it really brings anything original to the table.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:24 pm

DiM wrote:
oaktown wrote:If anyone is curious about why 22, my sense is that most Doodle games are two player... 22 is the max starting territories that doesn't give the player who goes first an advantage by dropping four. In a 3 player game there would only be one neutral, four player 2. Anybody who wants to play a five or six player game on a tiny map can suck it up and deal with the neutrals. :wink:


actually you're a bit wrong here. the max number of terits a map can have without putting the first player at an advantage is 33.
this way in 2 player games there will be 11 for p1 11 for p2 and 11 neutral.

if you're wondering why i decided to talk about this before any other aspect is because i feel this map deserves more terits. much more. i'd personally like around 60. i feel 22 is too low.


I disagree, especially since it is supposed to be more like doodle earth.


I hate maps with over 48 territories.
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Postby oaktown on Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:26 pm

DiM wrote:actually you're a bit wrong here. the max number of terits a map can have without putting the first player at an advantage is 33.
this way in 2 player games there will be 11 for p1 11 for p2 and 11 neutral.

if you're wondering why i decided to talk about this before any other aspect is because i feel this map deserves more terits. much more. i'd personally like around 60. i feel 22 is too low.

Huh... you can see I haven't played any 2 players games! :oops: I stand corrected, and maybe I'll take suggestions as to how to up this to 24.

Small maps aren't my favorite in terms of game play - I'd rather see big maps - but I know that there is a demand for small maps, and having now made a 60 terit map and a graphically challenging 40 territory map I wanted to work on something a bit more playful.

Piestar wrote:I love the look, but I'm not sure it really brings anything original to the table.

I'd like to expand on the nuclear theme with additional bombardments. I'll happily entertain any other suggestions.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:48 pm

I'd like to see more territories, but if you do go with the small number...hm...I'd definitely play up the theme through use of bombardments...maybe even "negative radiation bonuses" too! ;)


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Postby RobinJ on Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:25 pm

I like the idea but I would very much like a serious map on this time period of USA v USSR.
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bombs away

Postby Piestar on Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:06 pm

oaktown wrote:
Piestar wrote:I love the look, but I'm not sure it really brings anything original to the table.

I'd like to expand on the nuclear theme with additional bombardments. I'll happily entertain any other suggestions.


I'm not that knowledgeable about what is possible in game terms, but it would be nice if a player had an option that reflected the Duck and Cover mentality.

As to expanding the bombardment theme, as long as each bomber can only hit one target per turn, you should open all the locations as possible targets. That would suit the mentality of the day.

If you want to reference the Berlin Airlift, you could have one tiny piece of Western Europe within the Eastern Bloc. Make for some struggle...

Now we just need a map based on the corny flicks of yesteryear, like Reefer Madness...
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Postby soundout9 on Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:09 pm

I would tottaly play this!!!!!!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> make it soo
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Postby soundout9 on Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:10 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I'd like to see more territories, but if you do go with the small number...hm...I'd definitely play up the theme through use of bombardments...maybe even "negative radiation bonuses" too! ;)


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No negative radiation bonuses though i hate stuff like that. thats why i dont play usa appoclyspse (however you spell it)
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Postby unriggable on Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:47 pm

Clarify "North America"
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Postby d.gishman on Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:49 pm

unriggable wrote:Clarify "North America"


the yellow-orange territories on the map
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Postby oaktown on Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:04 pm

d.gishman wrote:
unriggable wrote:Clarify "North America"

the yellow-orange territories on the map

right, but I agree that it needs something along the lines of what qwert has going on with the rockets and strike points in his Western Front map... the target areas should be 'painted' with something like the mushroom clouds I mentioned earlier... the next update will be more clear.
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Postby oaktown on Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:53 pm

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Version 2. We're up to 24 territories, which I think is ideal for a small map; divisible by two, three, four, six (!!). I have yet to really rethink exactly what the bonuses should be... somebody who understands the formula/calculations can advise me here.

I stuck some army counts on there as a sample - I'd like to get away with no army circles.

I'll be adding more color/graphic elements to the exterior, so let's not get bogged down in that yet.

Let me know if the bomber-mushroom cloud bombardment pattern is clear. Again, it's a work in progress.
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Postby Chirondom on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:09 pm

Perhaps Africa should offer a bonus of +1?
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Postby rebelman on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:09 pm

I like the look and sound of this map so far although as you already said youself i think your continent bonuses need to be reviewed,

unless se asia and mexico are connected (im assuming they are not)

your borders to be protected are are as follows

us 2
europe 3
africa 2
russia 7
asia 4

your bonses should reflect the above

whatever the us bonus is a player that controls this will have a huge advantage anyway as they only need to protect 2 borders yet they can bombard 5 territories in relative safety (I know what I will be going for if I'm playing this map)

also your planes look more like commercial planes, might i suggest you replace them with military style ones or rockets
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Postby Chirondom on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:12 pm

Also, maybe axe Quebec and add in Korea?
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Postby d.gishman on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:14 pm

Chirondom wrote:Also, maybe axe Quebec and add in Korea?


Quebec is important, but it would be interesting to have Korea.

Also missing: Cuba (sided with USSR) and Turkey (sided with NATO/USA)

I think cuba should definitely be added, and also korea
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Postby oaktown on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:55 pm

rebelman wrote:your borders to be protected are are as follows
us 2
europe 3
africa 2
russia 7
asia 4

Not sure how you figured this... russia doesn't even have 7 territories. As for north america being an advantageous start, it does have to defend five territories from bombardment to maintain the bonus, meaning you have to defend in 7 places.

Question: should I lose the nuclear target in UK?

Re. territory changes: I want to keep this map small and kid-friendly, but I'm open to re-arranging the territories.

Korea is favorite idea for an addition/change - very much in line with the 1950s war theme.

There is room for Turkey on the map, but it just adds another hard-to-hold country with many borders. And do I make it part of Europe or Asia? Or neither?

I started with Cuba, but axed it because i didn't think it worked with game play... just one more easy hold for whoever takes north america, unless I link it with russia which seems gimmicky. Anyway, Castro didn't come to power until 1959, and Duck and Cover is very 1951.
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Postby jako on Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:05 am

i like the look and feel of this map. very nice oaktown.

thumbs up :D
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Postby oaktown on Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:26 am

rebelman wrote:also your planes look more like commercial planes, might i suggest you replace them with military style ones or rockets

The russian planes are silhouettes of Soviet TU-16s, which went into production in 1952 and remained in service as a long range strategic bomber in russia until as recently as 1993 - the chinese still use them. The American planes are silhouettes of B-52s, of which over 700 have been produced over the past 53 years of continuous service with the US Air Force. I'm not sure how much more military they can be.

As for rockets, neither the US nor Russia had much to speak of in the way of intercontinental ballistic missiles in the 1950s. Both countries tested their first ICBM platforms - the Atlas and the R-7 - in 1957, and deployment would take two more years. The silo-based minuteman rockets that most people think of when we talk about American ICBMs weren't around until the 60s. When Bert the Turtle warns of an attack, he's talking about the "bomb" not the "rocket."
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