VI NATIONS 2011 [WINNER=TEAM IRELAND]

[kabuki.mono]

Ok, firstly...I think the original rule of "The tourney ends at 11pm Saturday 19th" should stand...it's clearly been there from the start (I honestly thought it was tomorrow it ended which was my fault, not the organisers) and everyone should've taken heed. As explained earlier, if some players delay a game, that doesn't mean they should be held responsible for the outcome of it...it's just like cricket test matches, you don't have to win by points if you can just stay in the game until the time runs out and you get a draw.

Also: "On Saturday, March 5th around 16:00, WEEK 4 and WEEK 5 will be sent.
Those games will end with the whistle of the end of real VI NATIONS tournament on Saturday, March 19th around 23:00*."

The example given above with Ireland and Wales ended on the 13th of March. As per the rule, all WEEK 4 & WEEK 5 matches were given until the 19th to finish, meaning the game between gorehound and donkeysyawn was given to Ireland anyway...so that's not a contention point.

I've not really looked into it enough (I'll do so just now) but if you're saying that because it finished after the 12th or after the match on the 13th that you haven't been given the win, then it is contradictory to the rules and Ireland should be given the win which again as stated before isn't one of the options you listed DJ.

In all fairness, there can be only 2 options allowed. Either Ireland win or France win. I'm going to go through all the games, see which ones finished when and seeing how close they were as DJ also clearly stated that if come end of time, a team was CLEARLY winning, they would be awarded that game as a victory.


*MAJOR EDIT*Ok, I've looked into this a bit more and it seems I was thrown off by the mention of when games ended and delaying finishes when that wasn't the issue AT ALL. The issue is people joining games late.

As per YOUR advices DJ, if a good reason for joining late is given, then they get the wins. If no good reason was given, it becomes a draw. As such, I believe they probably DID give you a good reason and Ireland should win. If I'm wrong about them sending a good reason for not joining however, all games joined late should be counted as a draw.

I agree with what's being said here.

[DJENRE]

And the players you found were FREEMIUM while we needed PREMIUM players!!!! [/size][/b]

No actually I found 2 other Irish premium members that wanted to join but you had already put jo in so we accepted that.

lordhaha & Desperado1961 i believe it was in case you forget.

Yes because you already had 36 hours to found a player. Did I have to wait for a whole year if youdidn't found a proper player???? Please be serious. I waited long enough to give you the opportunity to found an Irish player. You didn't and I entered an official reserve. THis point is over.

[DJENRE]

Personally i think this whole technicality is bull but i have a conflict of interest..the only way to resolve this mess is OPTION 2


not to point fingers or anything but the tourney organizer(DJENRE) imposing this technicality also has a conflict of interest

I know, and I'm desesperated about that!!! But what I should do? NO participate in my tournament? ANd like I told conchobar: I would do the same even if it wasn't FRANCE involved.

[drunkmunky]

Ok, if this is still about joining games late...then a player dead beating from the games, or dead beating from the tourney = very good reason. You also wanted teams to go by country...do you know how many Scottish players I know of? like...3.

They found a player as soon as they could, but as it wasn't within your wishes, you put in a reserve (which should've been done in the first place, no?) and games got played. The more I read about this, the more and more I'm starting to wonder why Ireland haven't been given the win for the DJENRE, I'm afraid to say...

[DJENRE]

IMHO Ireland won clearly this tourney.
This is mainly because the point assignment during the tourney: you (DJENRE I mean) cannot change suddenly the point assignment also using a rule that "should be" well known by all.
After that let me say "thank you" for this great tourney!

The only thing I changed was about single player who didn't join (will_mp40)= game lost, and it was actually when week 4 and 5 started. And see that this point was beneficial for Ireland.
Thank you for that anyway. Many players enjoyed this tournament too but I'm sad to see how it ends...

And he has conveniently left out option 3 where Ireland wins, hmmm...

It's not conveniently... 1 st option is following tournament rules and 2nd is to let you an option because you complained. Remember that.

[TheSaxlad]

Right. Ireland are not happy, France are not happy.

Play your set again, and the winner is the people who get the most games in that set. I dont care whether its your team or not dj. Replay the set and the winner is the one who wins the most matches AFTER they have finished.

End of

[DJENRE]

Hi All,

Sorry, I am running a record fair this weekend, and took my turns as soon as I could. I have not looked at the previous complaints as I have to run out again, but I did look at one of my Welksh Games just to see HOW we could have ended up 10-14 losing toithem when I thought we had beaten them well.
I saw this:

2011-03-13 18:39:43 - Donkeys Yawn ended the turn and got spoils
2011-03-13 18:39:43 - Incrementing game to round 4
2011-03-13 18:56:06 - gorehound received 1 troops for holding Monmouthshire
2011-03-13 18:56:06 - gorehound received 6 troops for 18 regions
2011-03-13 18:56:15 - gorehound deployed 7 troops on Henffordd
2011-03-13 18:56:23 - gorehound assaulted Ergyng from Henffordd and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:32 - gorehound assaulted Brycheiniog from Ergyng and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:39 - gorehound assaulted Buellt from Brycheiniog and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound assaulted Gorfynydd from Brycheiniog and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound eliminated Donkeys Yawn from the game
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound won the game
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - Donkeys Yawn lost 13 points
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound gained 13 points

Yet I lost this game, or tied it, whatever! As you can clearly see, I moved as soon as I could. It was Welsh delay that caused problem. So how does that justify a non-Irish win? There are other examples...

Have to run, check in tonight.Good luck all and thank you Djenre for setting this up and going to so much trouble and such quick updates, too!

til later

gore

Hi gorehoud, nice to see you there.
Take your time, it seems it gonna take weeks to sort this probleme out
I know you played quickly once you joined. The problem was for players who joined late. Every player had 24 hours to join games after invitation.
I also know some players joined only 4 hours late but why I would say ok for players who joined 4h late and no for players who joined 6hours late (for example). 24hours is 24 hours
Happy to see that you'll be trying to found a solution like Iam. TY

[fbonsignori]

The only thing I changed was about single player who didn't join (will_mp40)= game lost, and it was actually when week 4 and 5 started. And see that this point was beneficial for Ireland.
Thank you for that anyway. Many players enjoyed this tournament too but I'm sad to see how it ends...

I was referring to the ranking that you printed-out in the tourney topic: at this ranking all player was looking, not to your "hidden" one.

[Conchobar]

Yes Djenre it was you who raised this point.

And the players you found were FREEMIUM while we needed PREMIUM players!!!! [/size][/b]

No actually I found 2 other Irish premium members that wanted to join but you had already put jo in so we accepted that.

lordhaha & Desperado1961 i believe it was in case you forget.

Yes because you already had 36 hours to found a player. Did I have to wait for a whole year if youdidn't found a proper player???? Please be serious. I waited long enough to give you the opportunity to found an Irish player. You didn't and I entered an official reserve. THis point is over.

[Conchobar]

And I don't need your sarcasm when as you've already agreed I helped you to get this tournament started before it was too late, anyway, this is not the point of contention.

Yes Djenre it was you who raised this point.

And the players you found were FREEMIUM while we needed PREMIUM players!!!! [/size][/b]

No actually I found 2 other Irish premium members that wanted to join but you had already put jo in so we accepted that.

lordhaha & Desperado1961 i believe it was in case you forget.

Yes because you already had 36 hours to found a player. Did I have to wait for a whole year if youdidn't found a proper player???? Please be serious. I waited long enough to give you the opportunity to found an Irish player. You didn't and I entered an official reserve. THis point is over.

[DJENRE]

As per YOUR advices DJ, if a good reason for joining late is given, then they get the wins. If no good reason was given, it becomes a draw. As such, I believe they probably DID give you a good reason and Ireland should win. If I'm wrong about them sending a good reason for not joining however, all games joined late should be counted as a draw.

I told many times all players to join in the 24 hours, When I saw a player wasn't joining, I told the captain 12hours before it ends and also the whole team somethinglike 6 hours before it ends. I can't do more.
I also told in one of my first PM that if a player wasn't sure to be able to join in time, he could give his Password to his captain. And that's what we did in team FRANCE if you want to know

[DJENRE]

Ok, if this is still about joining games late...then a player dead beating from the games, or dead beating from the tourney = very good reason. You also wanted teams to go by country...do you know how many Scottish players I know of? like...3.

They found a player as soon as they could, but as it wasn't within your wishes, you put in a reserve (which should've been done in the first place, no?) and games got played. The more I read about this, the more and more I'm starting to wonder why Ireland haven't been given the win for the DJENRE, I'm afraid to say...

My wishes were all players wishes... Start the tournament quickly after I send all invitations and give all players the same ammount of time to kill their opponents

[DJENRE]

Right. Ireland are not happy, France are not happy.

Play your set again, and the winner is the people who get the most games in that set. I dont care whether its your team or not dj. Replay the set and the winner is the one who wins the most matches AFTER they have finished.

End of

That is what I'm telling but that doesn't suit Ireland....

[Conchobar]

Thank you drunkmunky that is exactly the point i've been struggling to make. It is not the finishing of the games that is in dispute or anything to do with the '80 minutes'. As you say I was also under the impression that if a reason was given there was no problem and as things turned out the tournament ran smoothly. Also the invitation was sent as a PM and not an invitation with a 24 hour count-down.

[IR1SH ACE]

All I have to say is that ur late joining games rule should never have been put into this tournament, and by reading some of the comments left here I can see that people are already confused about this issue..

First off u where 3 weeks late in startin this tournament (no punishment for that is there)?
then u asked around for people to make up IRELAND, ITALY, WALES, SCOTLAND and ENGLAND.
6 man teams...So with very little time we managed to round up enough players but unlike FRANCE who are all part of the same clan (Le Clan). we had to find random players to make up our 6 men teams.

So it seems to me as if u put a rule in the game that u knew that France would not break (because u are a clan and well organized) but that there is a very good chance that a couple of players on the rest of the teams (because our teams where thrown together at the last minute) would break. if this was a tournament between well organized teams or clans then I would understand ur late joinin rule, but as far as I was aware everyone joined and finished there games within the time frame of the Six Nations..

In ur FINAL RESULTS message u say "The fact is I firstly update scores without that rules, hopping I don't have to use it" SO DON'T USE IT....
if France had have won u would not have bother makin all those changes to the final 2 weeks of games but Ireland win so hey presto.....do a little bit of change to the scores and now France have won just because a couple of people where 4-6 HOURS LATE.....OMG

This was a good fun tournament and I enjoyed it very much and would love to do it all again next year but u are ruinin it now with ur stupid rule which looks like it was put in for ur benifit.....

As for ur options to vote on

VOTE
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
.....

Option 2) WE PLAY ANOTHER SET OF GAMES BEETWEEN FRANCE & IRELAND


I like that there is no option for: IRELAND IS THE WINNER OF VI NATION

[DJENRE]

All I have to say is that ur late joining games rule should never have been put into this tournament, and by reading some of the comments left here I can see that people are already confused about this issue..

First off u where 3 weeks late in startin this tournament (no punishment for that is there)?
then u asked around for people to make up IRELAND, ITALY, WALES, SCOTLAND and ENGLAND.
6 man teams...So with very little time we managed to round up enough players but unlike FRANCE who are all part of the same clan (Le Clan). we had to find random players to make up our 6 men teams.

So it seems to me as if u put a rule in the game that u knew that France would not break (because u are a clan and well organized) but that there is a very good chance that a couple of players on the rest of the teams (because our teams where thrown together at the last minute) would break. if this was a tournament between well organized teams or clans then I would understand ur late joinin rule, but as far as I was aware everyone joined and finished there games within the time frame of the Six Nations..

In ur FINAL RESULTS message u say "The fact is I firstly update scores without that rules, hopping I don't have to use it" SO DON'T USE IT....
if France had have won u would not have bother makin all those changes to the final 2 weeks of games but Ireland win so hey presto.....do a little bit of change to the scores and now France have won just because a couple of people where 4-6 HOURS LATE.....OMG

This was a good fun tournament and I enjoyed it very much and would love to do it all again next year but u are ruinin it now with ur stupid rule which looks like it was put in for ur benifit.....

As for ur options to vote on

VOTE
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
.....

Option 2) WE PLAY ANOTHER SET OF GAMES BEETWEEN FRANCE & IRELAND


I like that there is no option for: IRELAND IS THE WINNER OF VI NATION

1) your so funny...
2) I didn't even know that we were all from "Le Clan". It's only a talking group or something and not a clan (we don't play any clan game there...) I joined it like 4 weeks ago and I just post once in their thread...lol
3) Yes but I thought about that possibility and because I didn't want people to complain about players who joined late, I created this rule.
4) some were 24 hours late and a player FROM IRELAND was 18 hours late....
5) Options have already been updated and names are in it... you should have missed that
where do I put IRISH TEAM? In Ireland Victory I presume?

[IR1SH ACE]

ur missin the point DJ.....U had a well organized team then got the rest of us to just throw 6 men teams together and u expect everyone to join ur games on time which seemed to work perfect for first 3 games but fell apart for the last 2 games. I was unaware of anybody joinin late or it was that big of a deal....

As I have said u inserted a rule that benifited ur team and screwed everyone else....seems fair

[DJENRE]

ur missin the point DJ.....U had a well organized team then got the rest of us to just throw 6 men teams together and u expect everyone to join ur games on time which seemed to work perfect for first 3 games but fell apart for the last 2 games. I was unaware of anybody joinin late or it was that big of a deal....

As I have said u inserted a rule that benifited ur team and screwed everyone else....seems fair

How could I know it will benefit my team when I created it. The games hadn't started yet...

[IR1SH ACE]

IR1SH ACE wrote:
ur missin the point DJ.....U had a well organized team then got the rest of us to just throw 6 men teams together and u expect everyone to join ur games on time which seemed to work perfect for first 3 games but fell apart for the last 2 games. I was unaware of anybody joinin late or it was that big of a deal....

As I have said u inserted a rule that benifited ur team and screwed everyone else....seems fair


How could I know it will benefit my team when I created it. The games hadn't started yet...


aahhhhhh becuse u had a well oraginzed team(I think I have stated this a few times) where u had shared all ur passwords and made sure u would not join late....

also I see u have 1 vote for France win
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
espaliers

Not to sure if espaliers vote should count seen as he is French aswell..........

[drunkmunky]

Ace, the rule for late joining is fair enough. You can't debate the input of this rule as many tournaments have it. Most allow 2 days, but due to this tournament having a timeframe more limited, it was put as 24 hours. This is COMPLETELY understandable so you can't base your argument on this fact.

It's the point, however, that DJ said if a reason was given for the lateness that it would be acceptable. As games went out in groups (Weeks 1,2 and 3 together; Weeks 4 and 5 together) if you missed entering one of the weeks, chances are you missed others. It's been pointed out that Ireland showed up late...but if a reason was given and the games were finished in time, I don't see why Ireland haven't been shown as victors.

Concho, I don't think it would make any difference if it was via invitation or mail and links to the games to join. You get notification of both it's whether or not your heed the notification or, as the case may be, don't log in and thus aren't aware of it. It was clearly stated when the games would be given out, so if you don't log in on the Saturday or Sunday for some reason, as long as a reason is given by Monday or so I don't think there should've been a problem.

Onto DJ's argument of "give your captain your password". DJ, I'm not sure how you do things, but I'm in a team with people I don't know, and although I'm not saying they aren't trustworthy, I'm not about to give out my password to people I've never met before. It's just ridiculous and asking for trouble. Also, how am I meant to know when I'll be able to log in? Not everyone has a structured layout of when they get internet time and when they don't. I base the time I playing CC around MY LIFE, not the other way around so it's a tad unreasonable to ask anyone to do this.

You also stated if you don't make the first 24 hours, give me a reason and I'll give you an extra 12 hours. That's highly unlikely to make a difference unlike 2 or 3 whole days...and then via messages sent it gave the impression "as long as you give me a reason for the lateness, it's ok and you won't be penalised". I truly believe that if a reason was given, AT THE TIME, why the player(s) was/were late...then the tournament should be given as a victory to Ireland DJ.

[IR1SH ACE]

Ok Monkey I understand ur point about the rule been there and u cant complain about it after the fact...

Just to make clear neither myself or Conchobar where late for any of our games and did not have any of our results changed but also we where totally unaware of anyone on our team been late or the fact that result would be changed at the end......

For something this controversial we should have recieved a warnin that players where going to forfit matches if they did not join on time.....I got no such message to tell me that a couple of players on our team where about to forfit there matches if they did not join in x amount of hours.

Just seen what u wrote here DJENRE.......
"I told many times all players to join in the 24 hours, When I saw a player wasn't joining, I told the captain 12hours before it ends and also the whole team somethinglike 6 hours before it ends. I can't do more."

As I stated above I never recieved any such message??????????????????????????????


And just to update the votes. I believe its 3 (neutral) votes for Ireland win......
Option 3) IRELAND IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
drunkmunky (Scottish)
kabuki.mono (Scottish)
fbonsignori ((Italian) u forgot this one he has clearly stated Ireland win in his reply)

and 1 (bias) vote for France win...
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
espaliers (French)

[DJENRE]

aahhhhhh becuse u had a well oraginzed team(I think I have stated this a few times) where u had shared all ur passwords and made sure u would not join late....

also I see u have 1 vote for France win
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
espaliers

Not to sure if espaliers vote should count seen as he is French aswell..........

You're still so funny man

Well organized team??? It's the first tournament we joined together as a team. I didn't know most of them before we build that team for VI NATIONS.
So please, If you want to "STATE" things, state better

Yes Espalier was from REST OF THE WORLD and he's french... But we killed them so he could be upset and give his vote to you too... What about team SCOTLAND, WALES and ENGLAND who should give their vote to you if I understand your way to think....

I told you, you're blind. You only see what you want to see...

[DJENRE]

Ace, the rule for late joining is fair enough. You can't debate the input of this rule as many tournaments have it. Most allow 2 days, but due to this tournament having a timeframe more limited, it was put as 24 hours. This is COMPLETELY understandable so you can't base your argument on this fact.

It's the point, however, that DJ said if a reason was given for the lateness that it would be acceptable. As games went out in groups (Weeks 1,2 and 3 together; Weeks 4 and 5 together) if you missed entering one of the weeks, chances are you missed others. It's been pointed out that Ireland showed up late...but if a reason was given and the games were finished in time, I don't see why Ireland haven't been shown as victors.

Concho, I don't think it would make any difference if it was via invitation or mail and links to the games to join. You get notification of both it's whether or not your heed the notification or, as the case may be, don't log in and thus aren't aware of it. It was clearly stated when the games would be given out, so if you don't log in on the Saturday or Sunday for some reason, as long as a reason is given by Monday or so I don't think there should've been a problem.

Onto DJ's argument of "give your captain your password". DJ, I'm not sure how you do things, but I'm in a team with people I don't know, and although I'm not saying they aren't trustworthy, I'm not about to give out my password to people I've never met before. It's just ridiculous and asking for trouble. Also, how am I meant to know when I'll be able to log in? Not everyone has a structured layout of when they get internet time and when they don't. I base the time I playing CC around MY LIFE, not the other way around so it's a tad unreasonable to ask anyone to do this.

You also stated if you don't make the first 24 hours, give me a reason and I'll give you an extra 12 hours. That's highly unlikely to make a difference unlike 2 or 3 whole days...and then via messages sent it gave the impression "as long as you give me a reason for the lateness, it's ok and you won't be penalised". I truly believe that if a reason was given, AT THE TIME, why the player(s) was/were late...then the tournament should be given as a victory to Ireland DJ.

Give the password was just AN OPTION. I didn't give my password to anybody and some of our team didn't do it too... I think only Fairman gave it to DD and djoach to me. (take it like a note for your statement IRISHACE )

About the extra 12 hours, yes I told that In my PM regarding week 1 to 3. About week 4 and 5, I clearly told everybody to be aware they have to join in 24 hours because time for games was lowered to 10 days instead 14 days. And most of all, the only PM I received was after those 24 hours. SO why should I do for IRELAND something I didn't do for other teams? Because they're involved in a fictionnal victory?

[drunkmunky]

I think most of team Scotland has given their vote for an Ireland win. I obviously can't speak on their behalf, but I'm pretty sure Scottie and Scottyboy would agree with me...Cookie and stokie I don't know about.

*EDIT*
DJ, you shouldn't double post, it's bad etiquette. Also, how are people supposed to know if someone isn't going to show up within the 24 hours if they don't show up. If anything, I'm surprised you got any responses BEFORE the 24 hours passed...

[fbonsignori]

I replay here my vote: Ireland won. You can count it DJENRE.