Conquer Club

The Five Elements [Winner: EnricoPalazzo]

Tournaments completed in 2009.

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:05 am

Okay, can't sleep. (feh) So the following will be an attempt to explain this league a bit, and will no doubt wander into stream-of-consciousness territory. My apologies in advance.

So, Let me elaborate a bit on how the scheduling for this works. Anyone who either doesn't care about the details and just wants to play games... or anyone who REALLY doesn't grasp even a bit of number theory, might just pass this post by.

Part of the apparent problem that makes things look odd to players here... well, I can think of two things.
1> I'm sending each player each week ONLY their games, so they can't see the total 'shape' of a round, much less the whole 'wave' of 10 rounds.
2> We have only one duplication of maps within a division... but it's made worse by the two players in question having IDENTICAL SETTINGS, making it VERY hard to determine who supposedly has 'home advantage'. (Air Division, jgazaille/portace)
3> Game titles have not, for simplicity, specified just who was getting that advantage in a given game. I do NOT think I'll be adding that for this tournament, but if I keep this format for a future semi-repeat (The Platonic Solids? ...a number of other sets of 5, but many have religious overtones, or like the Discordian 'Pentabarf', have 'parts' which are far too long to make good division titles), I'll have to consider it. Or, if demand is sufficient, I'll find a way to shoehorn it in here for the next set of games.

So trust me, I understand the confusion.

Okay, when I set out to schedule this, I wanted something I THOUGHT would be simple... I wanted each player to have a fairly even number of games starting each week, and I wanted everyone to have at least one game at 'home' each week. I started by approaching this from the end of the 5 and 4-player games, and promptly ran into a deadlock of overlapping games with the same set of people, with one person in 3-player games constantly getting home advantage, or having no 'legal' game to schedule... So... I took a break, then thought of it another way.

Scheduling 1 5-, 2 4-, and 3 3-player games per set made 10 weeks, I knew that already... It also left 8 player "slots" that would NOT play in a given week. So to keep the number of games even, that would mean 3 players would miss 2 games (playing 4) and 2 would miss 1 (playing 5) each given week. I was on to something, but it didn't click until I also realized that I'd been looking at 10 unique PAIRS of 5 players (1v1 having been considered early on as an addition to the tournament, 20 1v1 games, 8 per player). Specifically, 1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 2-3, 2-4, 2-5, 3-4, 3-5, 4-5.

I created 10 physical index cards with those headings, and it rapidly fell into place, so:
1> The players noted in that combination would be the ones to play 5 games in that week, missing a total of 2 games, 1 each... the two 4 player games.
2> As this meant each of the other three players would be missing TWO of the 3-player games, the only way to assure 'home' advantage to everyone was to give them the advantage in the one 3-player game they DID play.
3> This led to the 2 'noted' players that week needing to have the home advantage in the 4-player game they played.

Oddly, the 5-player games became somewhat irrelevant to the process, except for insuring that each player got to have the advantage in two, and only two, of them. These 10 games were randomized, and stuck onto the cards. What I should have done with them would be to randomize them separately for each division. *shrug*. As it is, in each division, when that division's week of (example) 2-4 comes up, player 3 has the advantage in the 5-player game, in addition to their 3-player game.

Week 1-2 (card 1) then reads:
1-2-3-4-5
2-3-4-5
1-3-4-5
1-2-3
1-2-4
1-2-5

With the bold numbers representing the 'home team' in that game. Given the above logic, the league's schedule is determinable by seeing either the 3- or the 4-player games in a division for any given round. Granted, it's not exactly a transparent process, but it IS logical and verifiable.

Once the 10 card were written, it was just a matter of feeding 1-10 to random.org 5 times for the divisions, and the league's schedule was set.

....................
Okay, I've explained things (hopefully), and given some thought while writing this (and lying in bed prior to this) to the thought of making an excel sheet that can handle the 360-game schedule for the first wave/round of the tournament... I don't like it, but it's a darn sight better check on my math and point totals than doing it manually, so I'll develop such a thing. Once it's done, It will go up somewhere it can be accessed by anyone interested in it.


Oh... and perhaps sadly, I DO really think like this... ESPECIALLY at one in the morning. *sigh*
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby slickstick on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:13 pm

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State of the tourney, Plasma Division, and round 4

Postby Kinnison on Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:04 pm

As noted in the scoring post, there's a viewable Excel sheet up on the web now. Hopefully it's self-explanatory enough to show what's coming up, and how this all fits together. I have not EXPLICITLY listed anywhere exactly who is in each game. There's also a blank column before the scores. if there's enough demand, I can edit that to include either the active players, or the byes, for each game. Let me know if anyone really wants that, and which way you'd prefer it listed...

PLASMA:
Sorry, folks. Simon Viavant is out until the 19th, as you probably know from his fill-in.

I'm given to understand it was a trip with little warning. The account-sitter isn't comfortable with reading his PMs and/or joining his games... and as he'll be back in 2 days, I'm not making an issue or priority out of it.

We're still a ways from Saturday, but it's looking unlikely for Round 4 then, we may have as much as a week's break here. But we are definitely not going on any kind of hiatus, scores will continue to update, and I'll get Round 4 running as soon as practical.
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5E: Round 4 is Rolling...

Postby Kinnison on Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Okay, managed to squeeze starting Round 4 into my schedule today. This, to the relief of Air division, who was about to be quite bored. ;)

It didn't go off without a hitch, though. CHECK YOUR GAMES. The obvious error was easily caught by the first person to access their games in Earth Division (Inkl0sed)... I'd copied a game number down wrong. Fortunately, the autojoin link didn't work to a 2-player game already in progress. *whew*. The correct number has now been sent out.

So, let me know if anything else seems wrong, I've checked as much as I can right now.


Also, the excel sheet got modified ever so slightly, to include future 0 score for the players who don't appear in a game. I hope this helps, and doesn't confuse.
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:23 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:39 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:31 pm

Scoreboard will update late this evening-CDT, or early morning-UTC/GMT/Z.
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Boss_oss_ss on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:40 am

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:35 am

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Boss_oss_ss on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:52 am

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:35 pm

Round 5, games made and sent... POSSIBLY without a screw-up this week.

Hey, I might be getting good at this. ;)


Any suggestions as to format, changes to the score sheet, or the like? I've seen a complaint or two about one of the maps in game chat... by the person who selected it. ;) I would be willing to permit a map re-selection, IF THE ENTIRE DIVISION AGREES to allow a map change.

This applies to any division, or setting, actually. SO, if you want to make a change before the week 6 games, I'd do the following:

TO THOSE IN YOUR DIVISION: Send that you'd like to make a change. And why. (games dragging too long, too much fog in division, too little fog, whatever)
TO ME: Send the specific change you wish to make. You do not NEED to tell the other players in division exactly what you're changing... although doing so might make them more agreeable.

If the other 4 players all agree to allow the change, the week 6 games and on will have the changed maps/settings.


NOTE: The division winners will be permitted to re-select settings for the final round IN ANY CASE. You are NOT required to play the second/final round with the same settings as this round. But you may, of course, do so.

FURTHER NOTE: If you don't like someone changing maps, simply veto any change in your division. Other divisions have no bearing on your play, regardless.

Good Luck, score updates Monday afternoon, see you next Saturday for round 6 postings...
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:26 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby poptartpsycho18 on Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:43 pm

Game 4462493 over :D

2009-03-24 20:09:46 - herus eliminated oakleyshole from the game in round - 12
2009-03-25 22:30:41 - poptartpsycho18 eliminated The Chosen from the game in round - 13
2009-03-28 19:22:46 - poptartpsycho18 eliminated herus from the game in round - 18
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:37 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:25 pm

Huge Score Update... 19 games completed in the last 2.5 days. That's more than there are LEFT in the first 4 rounds combined... nice.

Keep up the good work!



Tentative planning underway already for a sequel tournament. Changes planned:

1: Compressed time scale. 5 fewer games (only 1 home start in 5-player), only 5 "starts" instead of 10, every week and a half (Sat and Wed, alternating).
2: Prelim round opponents shuffle each set of games, so you don't see the SAME folks constantly.

Scoring will be slightly rejiggered to emphasize WINNING each game, and to account for the loss of half of the 5-player games.
0,1.5,3.5 - 0,1,2,4 - 1,3,5,8,13

Comments?

*this won't be starting at least until the prelim round of THIS tournament is over*
Last edited by Kinnison on Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:18 am

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby plurple on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:49 am

Tentative planning underway already for a sequel tournament. Changes planned:

1: Compressed time scale. 5 fewer games (only 1 home start in 5-player), only 5 "starts" instead of 10, every week and a half (Sat and Wed, alternating).
2: Prelim round opponents shuffle each set of games, so you don't see the SAME folks constantly.

Scoring will be slightly rejiggered to emphasize WINNING each game, and to account for the loss of half of the 5-player games.
0,1.5,3.5 - 0,1,2,4 - 1,3,5,8,13


pm me when ready with this sounds good personly.
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:42 am

Week 6 is created, all games have been sent out. Despite a confusing moment when I read something backwards in game labels, I believe that all games have been made correctly. As usual, check 'em, please.

*****Ah, I believed so in error. Somehow, I managed to MAKE a game with the wrong password... then sent out the 'right' password, and didn't record the 'wrong' one which was ACTUALLY correct. Confused? I was. All the more so when I then made the right game, and then emailed out the wrong password. Heh. ALL IS WELL ...FINALLY*****

Things are generally looking good. No one is out of contention yet, nor even down to the level of "well, it's MATHEMATICALLY possible..."

Keep in mind, with the current set, only 60% of the games have even been STARTED... we're averaging about 33% finished (Air and Water are past 40%, Plasma is not far over 20%), so with more than half the first round left to finish, any lead built up can still be lost.

No reserves have been activated yet, although there's been a few scares along the way on the subject. ;)

Closest division right now is Fire, with only 9 points separating the top and bottom scores right now.
Earth has the largest gap, 18 points between top and bottom.
Air, Fire, and Water all have ties or nearly so for the division lead.

GAME ON!
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby topper on Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:18 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby slickstick on Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:16 pm

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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby wolfpack0530 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:23 pm

wolfpack wins round 3 4,4
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:28 pm

Score update in progress. Round 7 delayed 24 hours or less. One player is apparently having extreme scheduling problems. I'm now talking with them and the reserve list, determining if they will be replaced. Decision by tomorrow morning, sorry for the delay.

Also... all players, please. I check FINISHED games, almost never games in progress (except to see they've started correctly). If something is going wrong, someone missing many turns or actually deadbeating, please bring it to my attention. Then maybe I can help find a solution.
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby wolfpack0530 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:11 pm

wolfpack wins round 4 3,4
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:34 pm

Not a full score update today. The score sheet on the front page includes the games created today. The EXCEL sheet IS NOT UPDATED FOR TODAY, and no games completed since yesterday's update are included... those will both be on Monday afternoon. Right now, I need to get to work.

Round 7 Has begun.

blindmatt has been removed from the tournament, zissou2 is taking his place. (Plasma Division)

My main computer is dying/dead. I'm currently using a much older desktop, and just getting used to the different screen settings is driving me mad. THERE IS NO LOSS OF DATA, I DO NOT PREDICT ANY ADDITIONAL DELAYS AS A RESULT. But I'm generally annoyed with life. ;) the problem seems to be hardware (unknown) not software. Possibly PS, but really, it could be just about anything but the RAM and HD, which have passed all tests thrown at them with flying colors.

GL everyone, Happy Easter... and Welcome, zissou2!
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Re: The Five Elements [full] UNDERWAY

Postby Kinnison on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:11 am

State of the Tourney Address: Apr 17

Heh. Lots of progress in the last 3-4 days. Fire division finished EIGHT games in that span, and everyone knocked out at least two.

No division has a winner yet, with at least two LIKELY contenders each, and more possible. Water is the tightest division, Fire a whisker behind... Plasma would almost certainly be the tightest, save for the one player who dropped out widening that score gap by deadbeating out of 8 games or so... :(

One minor problem in Air division, which I'll be PMing them each about. I screwed up. :oops:

I'm posting the mistake here so you can all see what goes on, and so I can establish how to handle this in the future.

Games 4607300 and 4607301 were made in reverse... I mean, right players and all... wrong maps and settings. As it turns out, the players who had and SHOULD have had home advantage were BOTH in BOTH games. So it's not an EPIC failure. It's also why no one caught it until I was recording the scores and thought "hey... that's not the map I just pulled these scores off of..."

I'll offer Air division 3 choices:
1: Since both players were in both games. Let it stand, play on, no future changes.
2: In round 9, there's another pairing of those players in both games, of the same size as the screwup here. I can swap THOSE game settings. the games in question are currently in BOLD in the excel spreadsheet, for folks to look at. The OTHER players in the games are not a perfect match, but it's as close to fixing it as we're gonna get, except for...
3: the games were wrong, period. SCRAP THE RESULTS AND REMAKE THEM.

If It had been caught before both games finished, I'd just take option 3. Since they ARE done, I'm letting Air division choose. Weight will be given to the opinion of the actual two players 'wronged' by this...

Finally, I'm sorry this happened... I'll do my best to be more careful in the future.
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