RIP Joe Frazier

[Aradhus]

I honestly wish boxing was as dramatic now as it was then.

Why is it less dramatic now? Is it the fighting that's less dramatic or is it just a byproduct of the times we live in? We've too much we can do, too many flavours, and too little waiting.

[Army of GOD]

Mayweather is hiding behind excuses like a "drug test", which Pacquiao is willing to take, because he doesn't want his record tarnished. He's a bitch.

Well can you blame him? Pacquiao is a fucking animal.

-TG

And Mayweather is getting slower and weaker.

What's with this "being a bitch" = making rational decisions? I guess Mayweather is a "smart bitch," and we may as well praise idiots for acting irrationally...

How is not fighting Pacquiao rational? He has probably lost more money/fans/support not fighting Pacquiao than the pain/injury costs if he did.

You're going to have to show why not fighting Pacquiao is rational.

The first part you just assumed. We have no knowledge of the actual marketing information. For all we know, the potential purse could increase or decrease.

It's not just loss of fans/support/money v. pain/injury costs. Uncertainty and risk are involved. Perhaps, Mayweather perceives that the risk of losing isn't worth the loss in prestige--being undefeated and all, he may as well retire on top. Maybe, Mayweather is tired of fighting; perhaps he values other opportunities more than fighting Pacquiao or anyone else; therefore, his opportunity costs are greater relative to fighting Pacquiao.

We may have a general idea of Mayweather's actual preferences, opportunity costs, perceived risk and uncertainty, but we should acknowledge that we really don't have the actual knowledge of those factors. The above illustrates that Mayweather's aversion to a fight with Pacquiao is a rational decision.

For example, remember that time when Mayweather challenged the UFC? We could state that his claim was irrational; however, to Mayweather it wasn't irrational because at that time he was overestimating his capabilities--unbeknownst to him. Later, he realized his mistake, and his rationale would then align with the outside observers.' However, we could make a good case that it would be irrational for Mayweather to later challenge the UFC again after receiving information from his coach and advisors about the problems in doing so.

It would be irrational for Mayweather to challenge the current heavyweight champion, but would it be reasonable for an outside observer to call him a bitch for not doing so?

Yes, it is reasonable for us to call him a bitch. His prestige wouldn't exist if it weren't for the consumer, so we can call him whatever the tits we want.

[BigBallinStalin]

You're free to call almost anybody anything, but your reasons aren't good enough. You're not representative of the majority of his consumers, nor are consumers the only factor of his prestige. And your reasons don't account for the stupidity in fighting someone who is almost 2x Mayweather's weight class. So far, all you're carrying is an emotionally laden insult with poor reasons.

<shrugs>

[Army of GOD]

You're free to call almost anybody anything, but your reasons aren't good enough. You're not representative of the majority of his consumers, nor are consumers the only factor of his prestige. And your reasons don't account for the stupidity in fighting someone who is almost 2x Mayweather's weight class. So far, all you're carrying is an emotionally laden insult with poor reasons.

<shrugs>

Haha...telling someone their reasons aren't good enough to insult someone...funny.

[Army of GOD]

sqq ʎuunɟ os noʎ ɐɥɐɥ

[Frito Bandito]

I loved Frazier as a kid. Too bad one of his worst moments was linked

His fights with Ali were "truly epic" ( an overused phrase these days, that fit those bouts!)

RIP Smoking Joe!!!

[Gold Knight]

Just to add to that Mayweather/Pacquiao thing, those that have supported Mayweather throughout the years think the same things about PacMan that are being brought about Mayweather. Is the drug testing REALLY that big of a deal that he can't just do it to get the fight? Just playing devil's advocate...

And I always liked Frazier more than Ali, as he was never given the same hype as Ali and other heavyweight champs but literally could hang with any of them for 12 rounds.

[BigBallinStalin]

sqq ʎuunɟ os noʎ ɐɥɐɥ

lolololol!

<throws confetti>

If you don't thoroughly insult king achilles, Evil Semp, and lackattack, then you're a little bitch! lolololol! Don't use "rational decision-making" as a good reason not to do so!

[Army of GOD]

sqq ʎuunɟ os noʎ ɐɥɐɥ

lolololol!

<throws confetti>

If you don't thoroughly insult king achilles, Evil Semp, and lackattack, then you're a little bitch! lolololol! Don't use "rational decision-making" as a good reason not to do so!

Haha! These two scenarios aren't related in any way! lololololol!

[Aradhus]

sqq ʎuunɟ os noʎ ɐɥɐɥ

Magic!

Mommy, how does aog make the words be upsidedown?

- 'Because he's on the other side of the world, honey' -

[Lootifer]

Ok so he's not a little bitch, he's still a giant tosser who has done nothing for the sport of boxing

[nietzsche]

[BigBallinStalin]

sqq ʎuunɟ os noʎ ɐɥɐɥ

lolololol!

<throws confetti>

If you don't thoroughly insult king achilles, Evil Semp, and lackattack, then you're a little bitch! lolololol! Don't use "rational decision-making" as a good reason not to do so!

Haha! These two scenarios aren't related in any way! lololololol!

It's an analogy. Modus ponens FTW!

If Mayweather refuses to fight the heavyweight champion, he's a little bitch according to your logic, which you assert is reasonable--because Mayweather's prestige (i.e. his future wealth, etc.) relies upon his consumers. Since you're a consumer, you can reasonably make this claim.


Using your logic and your version of "reasonable" based on the "Mayweather v. super heavyweight" scenario:

If you refuse to insult the admins, then you're a little bitch. You can "reasonably" do this because you're a consumer of CC, which relies upon its consumers for its prestige, future wealth, etc.

The point of an analogy is to rebuild the exact same logical argument into a second argument. It should highlight to you that your appraisal of Mayweather is unreasonable, emotionally charged, and unjustified.

[Army of GOD]

No, the scenarios are not related at all because I have no incentive to insult the admins. Mayweather has the potential to make a lot of money and increase his prestige. Yes, there's the possibility of defeat, but such risks are necessary in boxing if one wants to consider themselves one of the best in the sport, which, I believe Mayweather wishes to do.

What reasonable incentives do I have to call the admins bitches other than to not be called a bitch?

[nietzsche]

I think this is an opportunity for those in boxing to realize the way the competition is organized is not ok.

The way it's 'played' it's more like an spectacle than a sport. They organize events to sell sits and tv time and the sport comes second. There's a chance to organize the sport and make the competition more league-like.

It's very likely I had just written the first thing that came to my mind and had not considered many obvious facts. I don't care. Discuss.

[BigBallinStalin]

No, the scenarios are not related at all because I have no incentive to insult the admins. Mayweather has the potential to make a lot of money and increase his prestige. Yes, there's the possibility of defeat, but such risks are necessary in boxing if one wants to consider themselves one of the best in the sport, which, I believe Mayweather wishes to do.

What reasonable incentives do I have to call the admins bitches other than to not be called a bitch?

You're equating yourself with Mayweather from the analogy, but you're overlooking the first example. I'll repeat to make it clear because I admit I wasn't being clear enough.

We're discussing this from the point of view of #1.

--1--------------2-----------------------------------------------------3----------
I'm calling you a little bitch for not insulting the admins.

You are calling Mayweather a little bitch for not fighting the heavyweight champion.


It's unreasonable for you to call Mayweather a little bitch for not doing something stupid;

just as it is unreasonable for me to call you a little bitch for not doing something stupid.


By "unreasonable," I mean that given the constraints of "Mayweather" or "you" in facing your "challenger," the appraisal, "little bitch," of Mayweather or you doesn't make sense. To me, it's stupid to call someone a little bitch, if that someone is actually doing something very wise.

You may as well call Obama a "little bitch" for not partaking in the assassination of Osama bin Laden. Mayweather isn't able to very likely to defeat someone who weighs 50+ more pounds than him. Not only that but it destroys his future career because he'll just be battered to death. It's stupid for him to challenge a heavyweight, and it's stupid for people to say he's a little bitch for acting reasonable.

[BigBallinStalin]

Ok so he's not a little bitch, he's still a giant tosser who has done nothing for the sport of boxing

Haha,

Mayweather fights with ZERO traditional honor. I admire that.

What's great about Mayweather is that from what I can tell, he has sparked interest in boxing from the younger crowd, ages: 18-26. So, that's something.

[Army of GOD]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Are you saying Pacquiao is a heavyweight?

They're in the same fucking weight class. What the hell have you been talking about?

[BigBallinStalin]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Are you saying Pacquiao is a heavyweight?

They're in the same fucking weight class. What the hell have you been talking about?

Reread this: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=157159&start=15#p3447300

You answered my question to the heavyweight scenario, and that's what I've been rolling with.

[Army of GOD]

You're completely changing the argument.

Obviously it's much different if he faced the heavyweight champion because the chances of a win are a lot lower than if he were to fight Pacquiao.

Even if he did fight the heavyweight champion, he still has incentive to. He'll still make money at the end, assuming it's not a winner-take-all bout and if he wins his prestige would go through the roof. Absolutely no rational good would come from me insulting the admins.

[BigBallinStalin]

You're completely changing the argument.

Obviously it's much different if he faced the heavyweight champion because the chances of a win are a lot lower than if he were to fight Pacquiao.

Even if he did fight the heavyweight champion, he still has incentive to. He'll still make money at the end, assuming it's not a winner-take-all bout and if he wins his prestige would go through the roof. Absolutely no rational good would come from me insulting the admins.

AoG, I've been arguiing the same thing since you answered my heavyweight question. You simply misread it.

But that's ok. So, given the admin and heavyweight champion scenarios, we can admit that the appraisal of "little bitch" is stupid for someone to say to person A if they refuse to do action B?

[Army of GOD]

But that's ok. So, given the admin and heavyweight champion scenarios, we can admit that the appraisal of "little bitch" is stupid for someone to say to person A if they refuse to do action B?

I suppose. Go on.

[Pedronicus]

I get so fucked off with all these RIP threads. none of us knew him so why start a RIP thread?

I like Jimmy Saville, But I'm not going to start a RIP Jimmy Saville thread.

If Blitzaholic actually dies, then this is the place to have a RIP thread.

Shallow RIP bullshit on interweb forums reigns supreme.

When I heard he Died - I watched the whole fight on the Thrilla in Manilla fight on you tube. Thats the best way to remember him. this thread, like so many other threads is fucking bullshit

[jiminski]

I get so fucked off with all these RIP threads. none of us knew him so why start a RIP thread?

I like Jimmy Saville, But I'm not going to start a RIP Jimmy Saville thread.

If Blitzaholic actually dies, then this is the place to have a RIP thread.

Shallow RIP bullshit on interweb forums reigns supreme.

When I heard he Died - I watched the whole fight on the Thrilla in Manilla fight on you tube. Thats the best way to remember him. this thread, like so many other threads is fucking bullshit

heheh you tell'em Pedro!

[nietzsche]

Twenty-five years ago of this fight. I watched it live but I'm not sure I grasped all that it meant at that moment. I surely was excited with the end but over the years I've learned to appreciate it more.

JC Chavez vs Meldrick Taylor.

JC Chavez undefeated, considered one of the best. In his prime. Meldrick Taylor a boxer with a lot of future, fast and strong, and always attacking. At that moment Meldrick Taylor was the only opponent that could cause harm to Chavez. If you watch the fight with the original HBO comentators, you fail to see what's happening. You think Meldrick Taylor is kicking Chavez ass. He's definetly winning in the cards, because he throws more punchs, Chavez receives a lot with the intent of landing hard punches.

In a recent interview, Chavez said it was his hardest fight, that he lost consciousness of what was happening in round 10 (and you can see why if you watch round 10) and recovered until round 12. He says he felt like he wanted to go down, just give up around round 6, but he kept going, he says with balls because there was nothing left. He says he knew Meldrick Taylor was very fast and strong so he prepared as he never did before.

Doctors say Meldrick Taylor peed pure blood after the fight, and for a day or two. That he had his face fractured. Some say his concussions were so bad he was never the same (and you can see that on the HBO documentary).

If you see the spanish speaking version, you can notice the damage JC Chavez is causing round after round, and they're rooting for Chavez but they're clearly saying that if the fight goes to the scorecards, JC Chavez will lose.


The Documentary:



The Fight (HBO):



The Fight (Spanish):




The whole fight is a masterpiece, but if you have ADD go for the last 3 rounds.