There is no proof Homer wrote the Illiad

[BigBallinStalin]

If just 10 people today were born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen, politicians, kings, shepherds, historians etc. They were from three different continents and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects with agreement and harmony. The Bible is unique.

How many unique versions of the Bible are there?

[aage]

Is this the greatest fraud ever thrusted upon mankind? What evidence exists to believe with reasonable certainty that he was the author of that work?

Maybe. Truth is, it doesn't matter. Many people claim that Shakespeare didn't exist and "his work" is simply a stack of poems and plays put together by anon. writers. What matters is that the texts exist. Whether or not the claimed author wrote them is irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_ ... _Criticism


/thread


(link changed, Britannica kinda sucks really)

[aage]

If just 10 people today were born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen, politicians, kings, shepherds, historians etc. They were from three different continents and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects with agreement and harmony. The Bible is unique.

How many unique versions of the Bible are there?

The Bible is only a compilation of all religious Christian texts ever written. Therefore, technically, it is still being written, and there can be no unique 'definitive' version.

[DoomYoshi]

"agreement and harmony" = not true.

Also, Netanyahu got re-elected. That means all bets are off, we must send in the marines.

[Frigidus]

Pointing out the mountain of evidence against the Bible being completely true and the direct word of God is easy enough (and has already been done pretty well in one of the other creationism threads). I'll just point out that your attempt to draw parallels between faith in the Bible and "faith" in science is hopelessly flawed. The Bible is a set work. If you want to hold it up as being completely true and divinely inspired/written you must defend every aspect of it, no matter how ridiculous (see the great flood, the description of the world/universe in Genesis, the entirety of Leviticus, etc.). Science on the other hand is not trying to prove that the truth is found within certain boundaries, but rather is trying move the boundaries to match the truth. If a scientist were somehow able to find an alternative to evolution that better explains the diversity of life and somehow sweeps away the multitude of evidence supporting evolution, they would undoubtedly win the Nobel Prize.

I'm sure that you would argue that these alternative explanations have been offered, but ultimately they have been found lacking by the collective scientific community. There are really only two ways you can look at that; one possibility is that the theories that you support are lacking in evidence. Alternatively, there is a colossal, worldwide conspiracy that has set out to hide the truth of God from the world. This conspiracy would include people from all walks of life and every major religion of the world. Their goals are unclear and their motivations are dubious. You are a member of the brave opposition, whose strongest arguments rest on metaphors, selective quoting, purposeful misunderstanding of scientific principles (the Second Law of Thermodynamics being a favorite), and false stories of deathbed conversions. Which of these sound more likely to you?

[Viceroy63]

I must admit you guys are brilliant. Yes I was making a point. Ancient books are available today because someone took the time to write them down. The original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around but we know he wrote only by 10 copies made 1,000 years after he died. There are only 600 copies of Homer's Illiad that exist which are 1,300 years after the originals were written. There are 24,000 copies of the New Testament manuscripts, some written within 35 years of the writer's death.

If just 10 people today were born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen, politicians, kings, shepherds, historians etc. They were from three different continents and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects with agreement and harmony. The Bible is unique.

The greatest physical proof of Bible inspiration is the Jew. For 2500 years they had no nation to call their own. The have been scattered around the earth and persecuted in practically every nation to which they were scattered and yet have maintained their racial identity and culture. The prophecies concerning the restoration of the Jews to their land go back to the prophet Ezekiel and others and found literal fulfillment on May 14, 1948.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oairG6bbQ5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oairG6bbQ5U

Yes indeed. What would be the odds that a book that began to be written 3,000 years ago would survive unchanged and unaltered to this day. It reminds me of that game where a secret message is whispered in the ear and that message goes about the group and the end message is completely different than the original message. There had to be a supernatural Guidance in that.

[notyou2]

I must admit you guys are brilliant. Yes I was making a point. Ancient books are available today because someone took the time to write them down. The original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around but we know he wrote only by 10 copies made 1,000 years after he died. There are only 600 copies of Homer's Illiad that exist which are 1,300 years after the originals were written. There are 24,000 copies of the New Testament manuscripts, some written within 35 years of the writer's death.

If just 10 people today were born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen, politicians, kings, shepherds, historians etc. They were from three different continents and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects with agreement and harmony. The Bible is unique.

The greatest physical proof of Bible inspiration is the Jew. For 2500 years they had no nation to call their own. The have been scattered around the earth and persecuted in practically every nation to which they were scattered and yet have maintained their racial identity and culture. The prophecies concerning the restoration of the Jews to their land go back to the prophet Ezekiel and others and found literal fulfillment on May 14, 1948.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oairG6bbQ5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oairG6bbQ5U

Yes indeed. What would be the odds that a book that began to be written 3,000 years ago would survive unchanged and unaltered to this day. It reminds me of that game where a secret message is whispered in the ear and that message goes about the group and the end message is completely different than the original message. There had to be a supernatural Guidance in that.

The bible has been changed numerous times. There have been religious committees that altered it. Not to mention that when it was written long after Christ's' death, most likely the stories had changed a great deal.

If Christ were alive today, he would call you all blasphemers. He would call you sinners for taking the bible out of context and making it something it was never meant to be.

[DoomYoshi]

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

—US Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL), in a GQ interview (December 2012)

Don't you wish Senators passed US Law?

[Crazyirishman]

Isn't there also proof/specualtion that the Dao De Jing wasn't exclusively written by Lao Tzu? What a westernist thread.

[nietzsche]

Is this the greatest fraud ever thrusted upon mankind? What evidence exists to believe with reasonable certainty that he was the author of that work?

No respectable scholar thinks 1 person (Homer) wrote the Illiad and/or the Odysssey. You can read this in any good introduction to the works.

[comic boy]

Cant think of any single book that has remained unchanged and unaltered for 3000 years , post a link somebody please .

[Dukasaur]

Cant think of any single book that has remained unchanged and unaltered for 3000 years , post a link somebody please .

link

[comic boy]

Yep that work is truly inspired , I sense the guidance of Cod.

[BigBallinStalin]

If a scientist were somehow able to find an alternative to evolution that better explains the diversity of life and somehow sweeps away the multitude of evidence supporting evolution, they would undoubtedly win the Nobel Prize.

I'm sure that you would argue that these alternative explanations have been offered, but ultimately they have been found lacking by the collective scientific community. There are really only two ways you can look at that; one possibility is that the theories that you support are lacking in evidence. Alternatively, there is a colossal, worldwide conspiracy that has set out to hide the truth of God from the world. This conspiracy would include people from all walks of life and every major religion of the world. Their goals are unclear and their motivations are dubious. You are a member of the brave opposition, whose strongest arguments rest on metaphors, selective quoting, purposeful misunderstanding of scientific principles (the Second Law of Thermodynamics being a favorite), and false stories of deathbed conversions. Which of these sound more likely to you?

re: bold, TRUE.

On, but a conspiracy? How do you that this conspiracy is so broad? It could be very narrow! So narrow, you can't see it! But!! You can see it in the shadows.... the shadows.....

[aage]

Cant think of any single book that has remained unchanged and unaltered for 3000 years , post a link somebody please .

3000 years ago there were no books, so obviously no. There are unaltered manuscripts and other texts (stone tablets and such) but in most cases there are multiple versions. (Because copyists always "improved" the version they copied.)

[thegreekdog]

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

—US Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL), in a GQ interview (December 2012)

Don't you wish Senators passed US Law?

The full quote from Marco Rubio (who I despise):

I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

Meanwhile...

What I've said to them is that I believe that God created the universe and that six days in the Bible may not be six days as we unerstand it - it may not be 24-hour days. And that's what I believe.

- US president Barack Obama (D-IL), in the Compassion Forum (2008).

[Neoteny]

I totally wish he would stop with that believing stuff.

[DoomYoshi]

The full quote from Marco Rubio is even worse. What a tool. How can an economy grow if the people are not actively trying to be more knowledgable?

Playing Civilization only proves that research is important.

[thegreekdog]

The full quote from Marco Rubio is even worse. What a tool. How can an economy grow if the people are not actively trying to be more knowledgable?

-18 Saxbucks for hypocrisy.

Playing Civilization only proves that research is important.

+39 Saxbucks for Civlization concept usage.

[DoomYoshi]

What hypocrisy? You think that people becoming more knowledgable shrinks an economy?

[thegreekdog]

What hypocrisy? You think that people becoming more knowledgable shrinks an economy?

No. I think you (and Metsfanmax until recently), are picking on Rubio because he's a conservative Republican. The president of the United States basically said the same thing Rubio did.

[DoomYoshi]

What hypocrisy? You think that people becoming more knowledgable shrinks an economy?

No. I think you (and Metsfanmax until recently), are picking on Rubio because he's a conservative Republican. The president of the United States basically said the same thing Rubio did.

I am a card-carrying conservative, so your interpretation is poor.

Also, if I made a mafia game of Nobel Laureates, Obama would be in the mafia category because he didn't deserve his. It should be stripped just like the cancer parasite one.

[PLAYER57832]

Is this the greatest fraud ever thrusted upon mankind? What evidence exists to believe with reasonable certainty that he was the author of that work?

LOL.. actually, I believe the consensus is he did not. (might be wrong on that..., not going to bother even googling the info)

[notyou2]

What hypocrisy? You think that people becoming more knowledgable shrinks an economy?

No. I think you (and Metsfanmax until recently), are picking on Rubio because he's a conservative Republican. The president of the United States basically said the same thing Rubio did.

I am a card-carrying conservative, so your interpretation is poor.

Also, if I made a mafia game of Nobel Laureates, Obama would be in the mafia category because he didn't deserve his. It should be stripped just like the cancer parasite one.

A Canadian conservative is a liberal in the eyes of the US. You pale in comparison.

[betiko]

I win!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata