Racist influences in childhood, but you don't realize it.

[Army of GOD]

No one's arguing with you...

[BigBallinStalin]

You're right, but usually conversation brings up other interesting points.

[Nobunaga]

I guess I was fortunate to be raised in a mixed neighborhood and to attend schools with about a 70/30 split (70% white, 30% minority). I've never given it much thought.

Somebody here said we should celebrate how far we've come... Perhaps we've pushed it a bit too far.

My eldest (public elementary school student) has a calendar book from school he brings home every day. In this book are notes from the day and assignment due, etc... This book also includes "life lessons" about being studious, being fair, treating everybody with respect... the usual type stuff I guess. That's all well and good. But the cartoon character kids in this book who appear on every other page caught my attention.

I actually counted them out (yeah, I'm like that). I don't remember the exact numbers for any of the races/genders represented but for the white boys... as there was a total of 2. The east Asian kids numbered well over ten, as did the black, perhaps hispanic (hard to tell exactly from a cartoon), and south Asian kids. There were somewhere close to ten white girls also.

Like I said, I don't have the exact counts (except for the white boys, as "2" is quite easy to recall).

I didn't lose any sleep over this, but I found it somewhat odd. Somewhere, somebody in state education made this decision consciously. To what end?

[greenoaks]

racism is a good thing. it helps your genes or those closely related to yours survive.

however, for much of our existance it would have been known as tribalism.

[muy_thaiguy]

We used to be more racist than we are now; no point in over-thinking it.

Instead of thinking about how bad some of the historical media (media as in shows, recordings, etc) is, you should be celebrating how far we've come.

and @MTG

Well, not only that, but as a child did any of us perceive that as racist? Did anyone of us grow with these songs and become racist?

I'd argue, No. The danger in our reasoning is that over time as we develop these concepts of racism, we begin to later point to something 'racist' in our past experiences. We tend to forget that even if those past events were or not racist, they still were ineffective in shaping our perspectives (i.e. we still do not become racist).

It's like using a context-less approach to the past, e.g. Symmetry's thread about Thomas Jefferson and rape. Without the context of the past, we apply our current perspectives and 'discover' latent racism or evils, even though at the time they were ineffective/nonexistent.

Another point: we apply with hindsight our current views on racism and then (erroneously) apply them to the past. Perhaps, some songs were not at all racist--in that the intentions and interpretation of the authors' were not at all racist.

Actually, what you're saying is part of my point. Despite these influences in childhood, most (as I guess some might have) people did not grow up to be racist. Different times, and many of these movies with the racist themes came out well before I was even born (and probably a good number of other posters on here as well), yet we didn't turn out racist (well, most of us I guess). The other part, is that at a young age, many of us do not percieve these things as being offensive, let alone racist, as we had not gotten to that age where we start doing such. We sit down and enjoy a movie that is entertaining to us and really don't think much beyond "that's funny!" or "this song is fun!" And at an older age, we can appreciate the artistry (like the old Disney movies were all hand drawn and done really well) and at the same time, analyzing these old movies for the time they were made in, with not so subtle hints at how other groups were percieved.

[turtleninja]

I do think that people also tend to be racist unknowing sometimes, im a Puerto Rican, Italian, German, Jew. and when I told a fellow person I worked with that I was all the above he said oh okay well nice to know there was another Puerto Rican in the work place and that I should put up a Puerto Rican flag sticker in my car so he would know what car is mine and to not break into it, I found it funny at the time, but as I think about it well kinda F'ed up. and its one of the reasons I claim myself to be a mutt when it comes to race. but for those who have kids or littler ones around via anyone. it gives us older and younger the opportunity to realize that WE ALL can do our part and to teach the right from wrong that we each have experienced and to pass on the legacy of change to the next generation.

[DoomYoshi]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

[warmonger1981]

Once a person is subject to certain situations or images their brain will log that memory in as a certain level of fear/enjoyment. As early as 2-3 years old these situations can mold a person very subtle. For instance language on Tv. It has become a lot filthier over time. You couldn't say asshole or bitch when I was growing up but you can now. So children who watch a show that talks like that will grow to think it is alright when the parents disagree. Who will look like the fool? Probably the parent at first since it will be only the parent saying it is wrong against millions in society who say its right. Not all children will follow the pack but it makes it harder to raise these kids with respect and morals.

[Gillipig]

I think we've become oversensitive with a lot of things. There was a popular children's program based on one of Astrid Lindgren books made in the seventies, for a second you can see a nude kid taking a bath, no one considered that pornographic in the seventies, or even eighties or nineties, but now whenever that old program is aired they always get complains of "child pornagrophy". wtf? There's no sexual content, it's not a fucking porno dammit. Who sees that and decides it should be classified as child pornagrophy? It must be a sick bastard! I grew up watching that program as a kid and looking back at it now I still can't see how on earth someone looks at that and calls it child pornagrophy.

More related to the topic at hand, I don't see why a tv series or a movie or anything that goes on the air must be totally free from racial stereotypes. It's not the government who makes these movies, it's not an official declaration of how we should view people with a certain ethnicity, it's just some people who decides to make a movie/tv series, and it's just their view of the world that is being presented. Ìf a show comes off as offensive to you you don't have to watch it. I find a lot of things I see on tv to be disturbing or "dishelpful" to people, but I don't call in telling them that because I don't like it, it shouldn't be allowed. The nerve of these moral "do gooders"is incredible. Just change the fucking channel if you don't like it.

[BigBallinStalin]

Gillipig, are you opposed to informing others which movies/shows are racist?

[Lootifer]

Incidently I just started reading "Stranger in a Strange Land" for the first time (I know right?!) and it shows an interesting insight into (at least in the first few chapters) the language and attitude towards woman in the 50s and 60s.

[BigBallinStalin]

Incidently I just started reading "Stranger in a Strange Land" for the first time (I know right?!) and it shows an interesting insight into (at least in the first few chapters) Heinlein's language and attitude towards woman in the 50s and 60s.

FTFY, but yeah, his interpretation to some degree is correct for x-amount of human interactions.

[Woodruff]

Once a person is subject to certain situations or images their brain will log that memory in as a certain level of fear/enjoyment. As early as 2-3 years old these situations can mold a person very subtle. For instance language on Tv. It has become a lot filthier over time. You couldn't say asshole or bitch when I was growing up but you can now. So children who watch a show that talks like that will grow to think it is alright when the parents disagree. Who will look like the fool? Probably the parent at first since it will be only the parent saying it is wrong against millions in society who say its right. Not all children will follow the pack but it makes it harder to raise these kids with respect and morals.

I swore like a sailor when I was in gradeschool. It had to do with my peers, not anything I saw on television.

[Nobunaga]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

[Woodruff]

Incidently I just started reading "Stranger in a Strange Land" for the first time (I know right?!) and it shows an interesting insight into (at least in the first few chapters) the language and attitude towards woman in the 50s and 60s.

Dude, seriously? I stand here...shocked.

(Not about the language/attitude...I knew that...about you not having read it!)

[Woodruff]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

I don't really see it that much, to be honest. I mean, I see it occasionally, sure...but where is it shoved in your face so routinely?

[Nobunaga]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

I don't really see it that much, to be honest. I mean, I see it occasionally, sure...but where is it shoved in your face so routinely?

Television. "News", sitcoms, dramas, etc... Internet news. LA Times, Washington Post, doesn't matter. There's no escaping it.

[BigBallinStalin]

Oh, by 'race' do you mean the categorization of humans according to skin color?

If so, yeah, that's prevalent, but I'm not sure how most people interpret that. In other words, as the general speaker talks obsessively in such categories, how much is the general listener affected?

[Lootifer]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

I don't really see it that much, to be honest. I mean, I see it occasionally, sure...but where is it shoved in your face so routinely?

Television. "News", sitcoms, dramas, etc... Internet news. LA Times, Washington Post, doesn't matter. There's no escaping it.

Oh poor little Nobunga has to put up with a bit of positive reinforcement regarding minority races...

#firstworldproblems

[tzor]

I saw a ton of racist things as a child and that was mild compared to the racist garbage that was produced in cartoons during WWII, which were so bad that even in the 1960's they were censored (a significant number being against Japan ... it's interesting to note how differently we treated the German and Japanese enemies in that war). But to be fair, they insulted everybody, even the Canadians. Of of my best examples is one where Elmer Fudd was a Canadian Mountie. Eventually he captures Bugs and has him up on a firing line. He is given a final request. He says...
"I wish ... I wish ... I wish I was in Dixie"

Suddenly all the Mounties have black face on. The current practice is to abruptly cut the cartoon at the second "I wish."

One of my childhood stories in books was about an African child, a tiger, and a chase around a tree that turned the tiger to butter.

I never did see the "Song of the South" because when I was a child, Disney used to rotate films on a nearly generational basis. Occasionally they would show parts of them on their TV program. Even Fantasia was only seen by me in bits and pieces as a child.

There is an odd thing about such racist things; they are often so blatant that they pass over the heads of children. I always thought the Sambo story was very insulting to tigers.

[john9blue]

[Woodruff]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

I don't really see it that much, to be honest. I mean, I see it occasionally, sure...but where is it shoved in your face so routinely?

Television. "News", sitcoms, dramas, etc... Internet news. LA Times, Washington Post, doesn't matter. There's no escaping it.

I really don't see it that much. You must watch some weird shows.

[muy_thaiguy]

A lot of Japanese anime has a bad habbit of portraying black people as a stereotype not too different from that, but throw in an afro, 70s clothes, sunglasses, and random gestures (along with what you see in the Jynx photo) and you pretty much have what you see in a lot of Japanese anime. Not all, there are exceptions, but quite a few.

Also to note, they portray most characters from the US, Canada, or Europe (Britain and Russia are included) as blonde haired and blue eyed.

[Gillipig]

This thread is ridiculous. You Americans are worse than the Germans what with their Nazi-phobia.

Get over yourselves.

We are not permitted to do so, sadly. Race is shoved in your face on a very regular basis in this country.

I don't really see it that much, to be honest. I mean, I see it occasionally, sure...but where is it shoved in your face so routinely?

Television. "News", sitcoms, dramas, etc... Internet news. LA Times, Washington Post, doesn't matter. There's no escaping it.

I really don't see it that much. You must watch some weird shows.

Either that or you see the same thing but don't realize what you're seeing. Oooh the plot thickens....

[Army of GOD]

I guess I was fortunate to be raised in a mixed neighborhood and to attend schools with about a 70/30 split (70% white, 30% minority). I've never given it much thought.

Somebody here said we should celebrate how far we've come... Perhaps we've pushed it a bit too far.

My eldest (public elementary school student) has a calendar book from school he brings home every day. In this book are notes from the day and assignment due, etc... This book also includes "life lessons" about being studious, being fair, treating everybody with respect... the usual type stuff I guess. That's all well and good. But the cartoon character kids in this book who appear on every other page caught my attention.

I actually counted them out (yeah, I'm like that). I don't remember the exact numbers for any of the races/genders represented but for the white boys... as there was a total of 2. The east Asian kids numbered well over ten, as did the black, perhaps hispanic (hard to tell exactly from a cartoon), and south Asian kids. There were somewhere close to ten white girls also.

Like I said, I don't have the exact counts (except for the white boys, as "2" is quite easy to recall).

I didn't lose any sleep over this, but I found it somewhat odd. Somewhere, somebody in state education made this decision consciously. To what end?

Just like how movie/tv producers put an abnormally high amount of white people in their shit?

C'mon, get the f*ck over it.