Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[ViperOverLord]

I hate to get involved in a CC race war, but - striving for honesty as I do, regardless of where it takes me - I discover that, in in this case, Scott has a factual point. I remain to be convinced on the theoretical point, but am more open to considering it.

- A Google News Archive search of the five year period from March 23, 2006 to March 23, 2011 finds only 5 instances where the phrase "is a white Hispanic" was used.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=u ... 00&bih=799

- A Google News Archive search of the last month finds the phrase was used 342 times.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=u ... 00&bih=799

Was there a recent change in the AP style guide, is a prefix being used to prevent inflaming a competitive constituency or does a white-on-black frame prevent a more compelling and salable story than just another instance of Hispanic-on-Black violence which has become very common (in California at least)?

In any case, I'm not sure how this tangibly relates to America's White-Black President Obama or his campaign against White-White Romney.

If race was descriptively used at all in hard news AP stories (non editorials) then the AP broke their own sacred standard of not mentioning the race of the alleged attackers or victims (a standard which they enacted approximately a decade ago).

[Phatscotty]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, why didn't the media use this pictures?

[Borderdawg]

The more one hears of this incident, the more it looks like wannabe cop meets wannabe gangsta, both posture, physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined), wannabe cop has firearm, wannabe gangsta dies. Legitimate shoot? Very gray area. From available info (although I think quite a lot is forthcoming) I'd say it will be at most a manslaughter charge, possibly an acquittal. If he is tried in state court, probably an acquittal. In Fed court, a manslaughter/negligent homicide conviction with little to no actual time. I do believe the media is going overboard to make this seem a white on black crime, and that ain't right. Now, as I said a bit earlier, I do believe there is quite a bit to this story that we don't know yet, so why don't we all take a deep breath, step back and quit all the "all guns bad"/ "kill them all let god sort 'em out" bullshit? From both sides? Please?

[ViperOverLord]

From what I've read: murder is a trumped up charge and the media should be ashamed of themselves for pimping it.

I've read of two eye witness accounts. The first was by a black thirteen year old. He said that he heard the plea for help and then a gun shot and he went into his house and he had his sister call 911. He stated that he did not know which person was yelling for help.

The second eye witness account was anonymous and he/she stated that it was Zimmerman on the ground being attacked. It was Zimmerman who was yelling for help.

And yes, Obama is aware of such accounts, but he is trying to energize his political base ahead of the election.

[Aradhus]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

the more it looks like wannabe cop meets wannabe gangsta

wannabe cop = big governmnent, interfering in peoples lives. Of course you guys have no problem with that because a wannabe gangsta(Ie- anyone who is black) got what was coming to him.

[thegreekdog]

I hate to get involved in a CC race war, but - striving for honesty as I do, regardless of where it takes me - I discover that, in in this case, Scott has a factual point. I remain to be convinced on the theoretical point, but am more open to considering it.

- A Google News Archive search of the five year period from March 23, 2006 to March 23, 2011 finds only 5 instances where the phrase "is a white Hispanic" was used.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=u ... 00&bih=799

- A Google News Archive search of the last month finds the phrase was used 342 times.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=u ... 00&bih=799

Was there a recent change in the AP style guide, is a prefix being used to prevent inflaming a competitive constituency or does a white-on-black frame prevent a more compelling and salable story than just another instance of Hispanic-on-Black violence which has become very common (in California at least)?

In any case, I'm not sure how this tangibly relates to America's White-Black President Obama or his campaign against White-White Romney.

I seem to remember a large number of national news stories regarding the various Hispanic-on-Black and Black-on-Hispanic violent crimes occuring throughout the nation. The president regularly indicates that random black men who were subject to said violence "could be my son." Although, technically, they couldn't, because as you rightly indicate, the president is of mixed race... so a 100% African American man couldn't be the president's son. If he's going to do that, at least he should start indicating that young men of all races could be his sons.

I do wonder whether the African-American constituency is a competitive constituency Saxi. Perhaps you meant to say "inflame the base voter group." If so, this story (and the predictable conservative reaction) is perfect for that.

[saxitoxin]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Aradhus does have a point. While it seems hard to believe a guy who was mentoring two black students would also have an insane desire to kill black students, Zimmerman chose to put himself in a situation in which his actions will inevitably be viewed with suspicion.

What was he thinking he could accomplish following Martin when he had no legal authority to stop or question him? Anyone who's taken a NRA firearm safety course knows gun owners have a responsibility to avoid confrontation. It seems like Zimmerman was looking for an opportunity to be a hero and wasn't thinking rationally.

One can probably accept Zimmerman has blame here without subscribing to the race conspiracy theory. I'm not sure why the two have to be inseperable.

[ViperOverLord]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Aradhus does have a point. While it seems hard to believe a guy who was mentoring two black students would also have an insane desire to kill black students, Zimmerman chose to put himself in a situation in which his actions will inevitably be viewed with suspicion.

What was he thinking he could accomplish following Martin when he had no legal authority to stop or question him? Anyone who's taken a NRA firearm safety course knows gun owners have a responsibility to avoid confrontation. It seems like Zimmerman was looking for an opportunity to be a hero and wasn't thinking rationally.

One can probably accept Zimmerman has blame here without subscribing to the race conspiracy theory. I'm not sure why the two have to be inseperable.

If you're trying to murder someone, do you call 911 and tell them to be on the scene?

[Aradhus]

are you smoking crack tgd? A - Obama looks like a black man. What the f*ck are you talking about? Is he not speaking out enough about white kids being gunned down and the murder not investigated properly?

B - the point he is making is that wether you're the son of the president, or some random schmo on the street, your death deserves to be treated with the same level of investigation. Without bias. Without prejudice. With justice.

[Aradhus]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Aradhus does have a point. While it seems hard to believe a guy who was mentoring two black students would also have an insane desire to kill black students, Zimmerman chose to put himself in a situation in which his actions will inevitably be viewed with suspicion.

What was he thinking he could accomplish following Martin when he had no legal authority to stop or question him? Anyone who's taken a NRA firearm safety course knows gun owners have a responsibility to avoid confrontation. It seems like Zimmerman was looking for an opportunity to be a hero and wasn't thinking rationally.

One can probably accept Zimmerman has blame here without subscribing to the race conspiracy theory. I'm not sure why the two have to be inseperable.

If you're trying to murder someone, do you call 911 and tell them to be on the scene?

yeah, if you're smart, you've got the perfect fucking alibi.

[saxitoxin]

@TGD ... By competitive constiuency I guess I meant to ask if the media were trying to prevent inciting a Brown/Black race war by relabeling Zimmerman something else? There are Hispanic on Black tensions in some parts of southern California, is there a similar situation in this part of Florida?

[Phatscotty]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Pretty much an open and shut case. No trial needed

x a billion

[ViperOverLord]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Pretty much an open and shut case. No trial needed

x a billion

Is that like his way of saying he wants to imprison obese people?

Presumed guilt based on weight? Is he citing some sort of new age legal doctrine? Did he get that straight from the UN?

[saxitoxin]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Aradhus does have a point. While it seems hard to believe a guy who was mentoring two black students would also have an insane desire to kill black students, Zimmerman chose to put himself in a situation in which his actions will inevitably be viewed with suspicion.

What was he thinking he could accomplish following Martin when he had no legal authority to stop or question him? Anyone who's taken a NRA firearm safety course knows gun owners have a responsibility to avoid confrontation. It seems like Zimmerman was looking for an opportunity to be a hero and wasn't thinking rationally.

One can probably accept Zimmerman has blame here without subscribing to the race conspiracy theory. I'm not sure why the two have to be inseperable.

If you're trying to murder someone, do you call 911 and tell them to be on the scene?

yeah, if you're smart, you've got the perfect fucking alibi.

I'm not sure how common this kind of grand, multi-layered Machiavellian plot is outside of Harrison Ford movies. But I'm no expert, I could be wrong.

[codeblue1018]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Pretty much an open and shut case. No trial needed

x a billion

Is that like his way of saying he wants to imprison obese people?

Presumed guilt based on weight? Is he citing some sort of new age legal doctrine? Did he get that straight from the UN?

I didn't know weight had anything to do with whether or not someone could be dangerous or could be a threat. Clearly the "250lb adult" following the "140lb kid" makes this case clear cut.
Yet another gem of a post.

[ViperOverLord]

If you're trying to murder someone, do you call 911 and tell them to be on the scene?

yeah, if you're smart, you've got the perfect fucking alibi.

I'm not sure how common this kind of grand, multi-layered Machiavellian plot is outside of Harrison Ford movies. But I'm no expert, I could be wrong.

"I'll call the cops. And then in front of witnesses, kill that &*%$# %$&^#. And then I'll point my gun at them and tell them they're *&^*% dead if they tell anybody what happened. Then I'll bloody my nose and make it look like I was assaulted. And the cops will show up and it'll all just look like self defense. It's perfect. Nothing can foil my evil plans." -- George Zimmerman

[Aradhus]

physical confrontation occurs (whose fault probably never to be determined

what the f*ck are you talking about? the 250 lbs guy following the 140 lbs kid kinda determines who is to blame.

Pretty much an open and shut case. No trial needed

x a billion

wow, you people are dense. following is the important term in that post. Pointing out their weight makes it fairly obvious to anyone with a brain, that it would be as hard as hell for the kid to get somebody almost double his weight onto the ground.

Now go take you bundles of hay and f*ck off.

[Aradhus]

So it is somehow my fault you're all dense imbeciles with an inability to read at a proficient levek. Saxi read, he got it.

[Aradhus]

VOL deletes his inane post before I pressed submit with my reply.

So it is somehow my fault you're all dense imbeciles with an inability to read at a proficient levek. Saxi read, he got it.

[Baron Von PWN]

Although there is a pretty large weight disparity, I've seen guys double the weight of their opponents get taken down. I don't really know anything about this case, but just pointing out its not that crazy an idea that a physically fit 140lbs guy take down a 240lbs guy.

Heck I did it a bunch of times when I was taking Karate.

[Aradhus]

double your weight? I'm not sayin it is impossible, but it is highly unlikely.

[Phatscotty]

If you're trying to murder someone, do you call 911 and tell them to be on the scene?

yeah, if you're smart, you've got the perfect fucking alibi.

I'm not sure how common this kind of grand, multi-layered Machiavellian plot is outside of Harrison Ford movies. But I'm no expert, I could be wrong.

"I'll call the cops. And then in front of witnesses, kill that &*%$# %$&^#. And then I'll point my gun at them and tell them they're *&^*% dead if they tell anybody what happened. Then I'll bloody my nose and make it look like I was assaulted. And the cops will show up and it'll all just look like self defense. It's perfect. Nothing can foil my evil plans." -- George Zimmerman

Yeah, I ran into someone who said that the witness was a friend of the shooter, and they got together and made up matching stories. When I said "maybe....but what about the other witnesses?" they said that is was too dark and the witnesses could not see.

[Phatscotty]

Here is how the story was reported Feb 23rd.

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.

Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/se ... z1q7HHPbAl

[Phatscotty]

How did Zimmerman get a broken nose? How did he get a cut on the back of his head?

Just wondering if anyone knows.

Assuming that is true, could it be that he attacked the kid he was fucking stalking, and the kid defended himself?

You guys are clowns.

911 call

“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told dispatch, in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”

Another tidbit, Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days. I might have stated earlier that he was only suspended for 5 days. You have to do something pretty bad to get a 10 day suspension, as the next step after that is expulsion. Does anyone know why he was suspended?

[AAFitz]

How did Zimmerman get a broken nose?
How did he get a cut on the back of his head?
Just wondering if anyone knows.

Heh now your post sort of rhymes. You should make all your posts this way scotty.

and as usual it kind of .....

Just kidding actually. Personally, I try not to form opinions on this stuff in the early days. Been burned by both sides of the media, so while Ive seen quite a bit of reporting on it, pretty much everywhere and its obvious without all the facts you cant know exactly what happened.

However, in answer to your question Phatty... as you suggest the facts are not in, and you are quite right.. Its very possible Zimmerman was walking through his 51% non-white neighborhood as you describe, and assaulted a perfectly innocent kid, who happened to be a minority, which as you showed, would be expected statistically so could be no reason for any suspicion(not that it should be otherwise)... and then that kid defended himself by fighting back, only to be shot.

Maybe he did get suspended for smoking crack, or peeing on a teachers desk...or not doing his art project. Personally I dont give a f*ck if he knew what the pythagorean theorem was or how to spell it, especially since I didn't...at all...but who knows? who cares? However, if he was just walking down the street from his friends house, and a guy got over-zealous and assaulted him for no good reason and got his ass beat as a result and possibly even in self defense, and then shot him because of a situation he himself created, well...Id say maybe assuming Zimmerman is perfectly innocent would be a mistake as well.

Im not saying this happened, but assuming you have all the facts as well, is just as dangerous. Certainly suggesting the kid did anything wrong at all and deserved to be shot is as reckless as suggesting Zimmerman should go on death row.

Would you really defend a guy who shot an innocent person walking down the street, who felt threatened and was possibly assaulted, who defended himself the only way he could with his hands, against a possible criminal that was holding a gun?

Unless it turns out that kid was doing anything remotely illegal, and not just walking down the free sidewalk he was entitled to walk down, an innocent person was confronted by a guy with a gun, got into a fight, and then shot him. Its really difficult to blame this on anyone else, or suggest he had any right to confront an innocent citizen while being armed, and obviously dangerous.

If I catch you in my neighborhood, and I confront you, and walk up to you and confront you, and you feel threatened and defend yourself....do I really get to just shoot you and walk away? I'm not saying this is what happened, and for all I know he had just broken into someones house, but unless that is proven...Zimmerman caused this entire situation, unless the kid simply decided to out of the blue to attack him, and it was just coincidental that Zimmerman was patrolling the streets and never said a word or walked towards the kid.

I know if some strange guy comes up to me and I think he has a gun and Im unarmed, I consider it my right to defend myself physically, and honestly, Im not sure I care if the law even agrees.

I do agree its reckless to suggest without all the facts that Zimmerman was guilty of anything but self defense, but I also think it would be equally reckless to not insure it wasn't essentially the murder of an innocent citizen.