For those who claim to be for freedom...

[BigBallinStalin]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans

Yeah, that story sounds about 10 years old, which is unfortunate because the NSA has been monitoring US citizens for a long time without the proper authorization.

[AndyDufresne]

Luckily when I correspond with other (domestic) terrorists, we both use snail mail.


--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

So that's how the terrorists have been winning!

[2dimes]

So hiding in the bushes naked is more challenging? You probably secretly want to get caught though, so it's kind of bonus right?

[AndyDufresne]

So that's how the terrorists have been winning!

I think so. But we've been lobbying congress pretty hard to keep the USPS from cutting Saturday mail, since, obviously, it would affect our business model. So far it seems to be working I think.


--Andy

[fadedpsychosis]

So that's how the terrorists have been winning!

I think so. But we've been lobbying congress pretty hard to keep the USPS from cutting Saturday mail, since, obviously, it would affect our business model. So far it seems to be working I think.


--Andy

saturday mail I could do without... but there's been rumors of killing USPS completely, which would royally screw us out here in the desert (or hell even "home" in italy) since USPS is the only ones who will actually deliver to APO/FPO

[Woodruff]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans

Yeah, that story sounds about 10 years old, which is unfortunate because the NSA has been monitoring US citizens for a long time without the proper authorization.

This is much more aggressive than it has been in the past, actually. But it seems odd to me that you're ok with that, simply because it's been going on for a while (I've been yelling about it for a while).

[Woodruff]

So that's how the terrorists have been winning!

I think so. But we've been lobbying congress pretty hard to keep the USPS from cutting Saturday mail, since, obviously, it would affect our business model. So far it seems to be working I think.


--Andy

saturday mail I could do without... but there's been rumors of killing USPS completely, which would royally screw us out here in the desert (or hell even "home" in italy) since USPS is the only ones who will actually deliver to APO/FPO

Oh, it'd still get to you...but at three times the cost of the USPS once the USPS is gone. That's the beauty of the model.

[Woodruff]

A good read regarding the Patriot Act:
http://nymag.com/news/9-11/10th-anniversary/patriot-act/

[Woodruff]

See...when Obama was campaigning and stated that his administration was going to achieve "unprecedented level of openness", we all thought he was referring to openness by his administration, when in reality he was referring to openness of our personal information.

It was a simple mistake, really.

[BigBallinStalin]

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans

Yeah, that story sounds about 10 years old, which is unfortunate because the NSA has been monitoring US citizens for a long time without the proper authorization.

This is much more aggressive than it has been in the past, actually. But it seems odd to me that you're ok with that, simply because it's been going on for a while (I've been yelling about it for a while).

Oh, where did I say that I'm okay with this?

[warmonger1981]

The New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit in 2011 for a report describing the government’s interpretation of its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. But the Obama administration withheld the report, and a judge dismissed the case.


i wonder why the case was dismissed ? Sorry for the double post from GD forum

[Woodruff]

The New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit in 2011 for a report describing the government’s interpretation of its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. But the Obama administration withheld the report, and a judge dismissed the case.

i wonder why the case was dismissed?

National security concerns, of course...wasn't that obvious?

[BigBallinStalin]

The New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit in 2011 for a report describing the government’s interpretation of its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. But the Obama administration withheld the report, and a judge dismissed the case.


i wonder why the case was dismissed ? Sorry for the double post from GD forum

Hey, hey hey! Let's get a source for this factoid. Ya know what I mean? C'mon, Wonger!

[Woodruff]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/us-government-special-privilege-scrutiny-data

"The administration is saying that even if they are violating the constitution or committing a federal crime no court can stop them because it would compromise national security. That's a very dangerous argument," said Ilann Maazel, a lawyer with the New York-based Emery Celli firm who acts as lead counsel in the Shubert case.

[BigBallinStalin]

You know, the libertarians warned people about this back in 2000/2001. I'm beginning to think it's too late. I even hear of people getting annoyed about all of the recent scandals with government, but are they going to change their voting habits? Are they going to actually do something about it?

(I don't think they will).

[patches70]

You know, the libertarians warned people about this back in 2000/2001. I'm beginning to think it's too late. I even hear of people getting annoyed about all of the recent scandals with government, but are they going to change their voting habits? Are they going to actually do something about it?

(I don't think they will).

But the libertarians are all crazy and there are only 18 of them in the entire world!

[john9blue]

You know, the libertarians warned people about this back in 2000/2001. I'm beginning to think it's too late. I even hear of people getting annoyed about all of the recent scandals with government, but are they going to change their voting habits? Are they going to actually do something about it?

(I don't think they will).

But the libertarians are all crazy and there are only 18 of them in the entire world!

[Woodruff]

You know, somebody on Reddit made a good point. With all of the NSA data-collecting and destruction of the Fourth Amendment, they STILL completely missed the Boston Bombers, two of the dumbest, least sophisticated "bro" terrorists in the world.

Not that I would consider them actually stopping these sorts of things to be justification, but hell, at least there would be something to show for it.

Hell, we made it through two World Wars, the Cold War, the Red Scare...all of these things while upholding the Bill of Rights. Why the need to change that methodology now? The Founders created the Bill of Rights, point-by-point, specifically to address the abuses of power they experienced under an oppressive British government.

We have absolutely and completely let the terrorists win.

[BigBallinStalin]

Well, they allegedly use all that information in order to target potential terrorists with the FBI's entrapment program. That's about... 100 or so cases right there. (Of course, could such results have been attained without the NSA's data mining? Could these targets actually have become terrorists? Do the short- and long-term benefits and costs of infringing upon US citizens' civil liberties offset the short/long-term benefits and costs of potential/actual terrorist attacks?)

If I had to guess, (a) there would be similar enough results without NSA data mining, (b) most could--assuming Al-Qaeda networks are effective within the US and assuming long-term communications for fostering that kind of commitment are effective, so... perhaps not, (c) No, because much of the threat seems hyped up.

We have absolutely and completely let the terrorists win.

We're certainly playing the game as they want it to be played. It's pretty stupid too. With all the literature on counter-terrorism warning about this, the US still blunders into it.

[ooge]

We should buy all pitch in and buy drone to fly above the drones, and monitor the drones.


--Andy

Our 2nd amendment right?

[warmonger1981]

All you have to do is give up your rights to free speech and privacy to feel safe from a terrorist because we all know giving up more right will ensure safety. Thats why giving up your rights to guns will ensure you wont get killed by a gun. Pretty logical if your a fucking moron.

[Woodruff]

All you have to do is give up your rights to free speech and privacy to feel safe from a terrorist because we all know giving up more right will ensure safety. Thats why giving up your rights to guns will ensure you wont get killed by a gun. Pretty logical if your a fucking moron.

I don't know a single individual that actually thinks that, to be honest. Not the most hardened anti-gun individual I know would say such stupidity as you just did.

[Woodruff]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

Ok, so I like that he's doing this. It needs to be done. But still...this stuff has been getting briefed to Congress, so he was clearly already aware of it (or certainly should have been). So that makes this feel a lot like grandstanding for the Presidential run.

[fadedpsychosis]

All you have to do is give up your rights to free speech and privacy to feel safe from a terrorist because we all know giving up more right will ensure safety. Thats why giving up your rights to guns will ensure you wont get killed by a gun. Pretty logical if your a fucking moron.

He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.