Who is the Best US President: Wilson, FDR or Obama?

[saxitoxin]

I'm sorry you don't consider first person testimony of wounded American veterans to be credible witnesses of the event that caused their injuries, but consider Wikipedia contributor HoneyTiger84 an academic and believable source.

They sacrificed for your right to denounce them as liars.

If Mossad asked you to plant a suitcase nuke in the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day, would you ask why and then do it, or just do it? (I assume 'I wouldn't do it at all' isn't an option on the table.)

[GabonX]

I'm sorry you don't consider first person testimony of wounded American veterans to be credible witnesses of the event that caused their injuries, but consider Wikipedia contributor HoneyTiger84 an academic and believable source.

They sacrificed for your right to denounce them as liars.

I'm not sure that what you posted is testimony of American veterans. Even if it is, it doesn't change the fact that the relevant side to consider is the Israeli's as it's their intent that's being considered.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm sorry you don't consider first person testimony of wounded American veterans to be credible witnesses of the event that caused their injuries, but consider Wikipedia contributor HoneyTiger84 an academic and believable source.

Actually, the principal editor of this article seems to be user Kjhalliwell, who operates his own Google page on the USS Liberty:

https://sites.google.com/site/usslibertyinquiry/

[Phatscotty]

Perhaps tis best to leave the poll making to me.

You can't deny that the Zimmerman and the Obamacare polls are the most fair and honest of all time

[saxitoxin]

it doesn't change the fact that the relevant side to consider is the Israeli's as it's their intent that's being considered

LMAO - "Al Capone was a plumber because he said so; obviously he knows what profession he was doing better than anything else."

I'm sorry you don't consider first person testimony of wounded American veterans to be credible witnesses of the event that caused their injuries, but consider Wikipedia contributor HoneyTiger84 an academic and believable source.

Actually, the principal editor of this article seems to be user Kjhalliwell, who operates his own Google page on the USS Liberty:

https://sites.google.com/site/usslibertyinquiry/

That's a good find ... from looking at his Talk Page, it seems like he's a typical Hasbara Troll.

[GabonX]

Your conspiracy theory website's assertion that Israel purposefully attacked a US vessel, (we have to assume for shits and giggles because no explanation is offered), doesn't hold up when the preponderance of evidence to the contrary is considered. As tragic as what happened to them was, the testimony of US servicemen is not more credible than the people who admitted to, carried out, and apologized for the attacks.

Again, I find it particularly distasteful that you dwell on this not out of compassion for US troops, but rather because you're willing to exploit American deaths to encourage hatred of Israel.

[saxitoxin]

the testimony of US servicemen is not more credible than the people who admitted to, carried out, and apologized for the attacks

Like I said, they were machine-gunned in the water by laughing Israelis for your right to denounce them as liars, lunatics and malcontents.

[saxitoxin]

A Q&A on the episode in 1967 where IDF troops, giggling, butchered 34 American sailors as they begged for their lives:

http://www.councilforthenationalinteres ... ussliberty

The conspiracy theory website hosting the Q&A is the website of the Council for the National Interest whose Board of Directors is as follows:

- former Congressman Paul Findley (Republican - Illinois)
- former Congressman Col. Peter McCloskey (Republican - California); recipient of the Silver Star, Navy Cross & 2 Purple Hearts
- former Senator James Abourzek (Democrat - South Dakota)
- Dr. Edward Peck (former Deputy Director of Covert Intelligence Programs, U.S. State Department)
- Dr. Robert Keeley (former U.S. Ambassador to Greece)
- Dr. Phil Giraldi (former CIA Station Chief - Barcelona; national security correspondent for American Conservative Magazine)

I know it doesn't hold a candle to the somber, academic inquiry of HoneyTiger84, WikiMom2Boys and Freakzilla74 over at Wikipedia, but it's the best I could do.

[GabonX]

the testimony of US servicemen is not more credible than the people who admitted to, carried out, and apologized for the attacks

Like I said, they were machine-gunned in the water by laughing Israelis for your right to denounce them as liars and malcontents.

I don't think that they're liars. I think some of them may from PTSD but I don't think they're what you said. Your lack of acknowledgment that victims of a sustained military attack may have emotions which cloud their judgement is either an example of extreme stupidity or intellectual dishonesty.


Let me break this down for you guys just in case anyone doesn't follow...

Party A does something to Party B. Who is more qualified to explain why Party A did the thing, the people that did it or the people that it was done to? If the thing that was done hurt Party B, might this make them less rational in considering what happened?


As for whether this is an example of stupidity or dishonesty, I believe it's the latter. Riddle me this Saxi, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty on purpose why would they have admitted to doing it?

[saxitoxin]

Riddle me this Saxi, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty on purpose why would they have admitted to doing it?

Israel didn't admit to attacking the USS Liberty on purpose.

That was easy. Any more?

(I think you're probably better off just quoting Bible prophecy that ABC magic creature promised XYZ person a mystical destiny during an Ouija board game, like the rest of the pro-Israel crowd does. The 'hard facts' angle never really has worked too great for the Israeli chorus.)

[GabonX]

Riddle me this Saxi, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty on purpose why would they have admitted to doing it?

Israel didn't admit to attacking the USS Liberty on purpose.

That was easy. Any more?

If they attacked the USS Liberty knowing that it was an American ship why would they have admitted to attacking it?

What was their motive for the attack?

[saxitoxin]

Riddle me this Saxi, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty on purpose why would they have admitted to doing it?

Israel didn't admit to attacking the USS Liberty on purpose.

That was easy. Any more?

If they attacked the USS Liberty knowing that it was an American ship why would they have admitted to attacking it?

What was their motive for the attack?

Answers to your questions are all detailed at the link I posted above. There are no Bible verses or prophecy from Nostradamus there, however, so I'm not sure how credible you'll consider it.

[GabonX]

(I think you're probably better off just quoting Bible prophecy that ABC magic creature promised XYZ person a mystical destiny during an Ouija board game, like the rest of the pro-Israel crowd does. The 'hard facts' angle never really has worked too great for the Israeli chorus.)

Answers to your questions are all detailed at the link I posted above. There are no Bible verses or prophecy from Nostradamus there, however, so I'm not sure how credible you'll consider it.

There was no reference to bible verses or prophecy until you decided to make your antisemitism blatantly transparent.

Again, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty knowing it was a US ship, what was their motive, and why did they admit to carrying out the attack instead of blaming it on the Egyptian forces?

[saxitoxin]

Again, if Israel had attacked the USS Liberty knowing it was a US ship, what was their motive, and why did they admit to carrying out the attack instead of blaming it on the Egyptian forces?

Again - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=182445&start=30#p3985548.

[comic boy]

PhatTroll despises Obama , PhatTroll has a confirmed history of struggling to get even the day of the week correct , by default Obama must be a great president.

[Commander62890]

As per the OP: FDR for his leadership and major foreign policy decisions - even if his economic policies did exacerbate the depression (I'm on the fence about that).

Don't know too much about Eisenhower, but I agree Suez was a rare shining moment in US foreign policy.
Sure, it was a little hypocritical, considering the U.S.' imperialist policies elsewhere, but it's better than nothing.

One thing that peeves, me, though - Suez happened in 1956, and tends to overshadow a far greater injustice that occurred in the same year... the repression of the Hungarian Revolution. I'm guessing that doesn't get as much coverage b/c the Soviet bloc is gone, and I suppose there was little outrage at the time b/c the West had already decided to let the USSR do whatever it wanted within its own sphere. Regardless, there's no way I'm signing off on Khrushchev.

[Phatscotty]

Theodore and Woodrow by Judge Andrew P. Napolitano book trailer

"The 2 Presidents that destroyed Freedom"

[Iliad]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

[puppydog85]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

I find it mildly funny that you let a whole page of discussion about the Liberty incident go by without comment, but a video about us presidents is trolling?

[Dukasaur]

- former Congressman Paul Findley (Republican - Illinois)
- former Congressman Col. Peter McCloskey (Republican - California); recipient of the Silver Star, Navy Cross & 2 Purple Hearts
- former Senator James Abourzek (Democrat - South Dakota)
- Dr. Edward Peck (former Deputy Director of Covert Intelligence Programs, U.S. State Department)
- Dr. Robert Keeley (former U.S. Ambassador to Greece)
- Dr. Phil Giraldi (former CIA Station Chief - Barcelona; national security correspondent for American Conservative Magazine)

I know it doesn't hold a candle to the somber, academic inquiry of HoneyTiger84, WikiMom2Boys and Freakzilla74 over at Wikipedia, but it's the best I could do.

Yup....
Paul Findlay... noted commie-lover, best known for successfully urging Congress to renege on its guarantees to Nationalist China and endorse the Communist regime. Big surprise to find him in Nasser's corner, lol.
Pete McCloskey... Holocaust Denier. We find a Holocaust Denier questioning Israel's right to exist? OMG, RU Serious?!?! I can't believe it!
James Abourezk... Point man for the Arab lobby in Congress.... 'nuff said.
Edward Peck... Nixon sycophant elevated to the Foreign Service, presumably for his devotion to shining Nixon's shoes with tongue.
Robert Keeley... Gerald Ford shoeshiner, but better known for his tireless toadying to the Islamist lobby, and more recently self-publishing three books that no legitimate publisher would touch.

Fine bunch of objective, non-aligned neutral voices there! ROTFLMAO!

I'll take my chances with Mamabear824 or any other random sampling of normal people.

[saxitoxin]

- former Congressman Paul Findley (Republican - Illinois)
- former Congressman Col. Peter McCloskey (Republican - California); recipient of the Silver Star, Navy Cross & 2 Purple Hearts
- former Senator James Abourzek (Democrat - South Dakota)
- Dr. Edward Peck (former Deputy Director of Covert Intelligence Programs, U.S. State Department)
- Dr. Robert Keeley (former U.S. Ambassador to Greece)
- Dr. Phil Giraldi (former CIA Station Chief - Barcelona; national security correspondent for American Conservative Magazine)

I know it doesn't hold a candle to the somber, academic inquiry of HoneyTiger84, WikiMom2Boys and Freakzilla74 over at Wikipedia, but it's the best I could do.

Yup....
Paul Findlay... noted commie-lover, best known for successfully urging Congress to renege on its guarantees to Nationalist China and endorse the Communist regime. Big surprise to find him in Nasser's corner, lol.
Pete McCloskey... Holocaust Denier. We find a Holocaust Denier questioning Israel's right to exist? OMG, RU Serious?!?! I can't believe it!
James Abourezk... Point man for the Arab lobby in Congress.... 'nuff said.
Edward Peck... Nixon sycophant elevated to the Foreign Service, presumably for his devotion to shining Nixon's shoes with tongue.
Robert Keeley... Gerald Ford shoeshiner, but better known for his tireless toadying to the Islamist lobby, and more recently self-publishing three books that no legitimate publisher would touch.

Fine bunch of objective, non-aligned neutral voices there! ROTFLMAO!

I'll take my chances with Mamabear824 or any other random sampling of normal people.

A tale of two Republicans:

COL Pete McCloskey (Sycophant, Commie, Arab Lover, Shoeshiner) detailed his military exploits in The Taking of Hill 601, in which he recounts leading an infantry charge into a wall of Chinese machine gun fire.

Ronald Reagan (Hero, Titan, Colossus) detailed his military exploits in The Reagan Diaries, in which he recounts once being caught in traffic on Beverly Boulevard while driving to film a war bonds ad in West Hollywood.

I don't have a moment of hesitation standing on the side of the McCloskey-Republican version of the USS Liberty massacre over the Reagan-Republican fantasy.

A tale of two Republicans:

Ambassador Robert Keeley (Sycophant, Commie, Arab Lover, Shoeshiner) received undergraduate and graduate degrees from Princeton, commanded a cutter during the Battle of Inchon, served as ambassador to Greece, Zimbabwe and Mauritius under three presidents (after a career of foreign service postings in Mali and Congo), spent half-a-decade as president of the Middle East Institute and another half-a-decade as president of the Foreign Service Association.

Ambassador Dan Shapiro (Academic, Diplomat, Strategist)) worked as a valet/aide to a revolving door of congressmen, then as a lobbyist for the pharmaceuticals industry, then as a campaign worker for Barack Obama 2008, then as U.S. Ambassador to Israel (his first ever diplomatic assignment).

I don't have a moment of hesitation standing on the side of the Keeley-Republican version of the USS Liberty massacre over the Shapiro-Republican fantasy.

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

I find it mildly funny that you let a whole page of discussion about the Liberty incident go by without comment, but a video about us presidents is trolling?

a video about the president which is in the poll....

[Iliad]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

I find it mildly funny that you let a whole page of discussion about the Liberty incident go by without comment, but a video about us presidents is trolling?

Saxitoxin gonna sax.

Sorry Scotty, if you have an opinion on which of the three presidents has been the best I will need you to post and actually discuss it in your own words.

[Phatscotty]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

I find it mildly funny that you let a whole page of discussion about the Liberty incident go by without comment, but a video about us presidents is trolling?

Saxitoxin gonna sax.

Sorry Scotty, if you have an opinion on which of the three presidents has been the best I will need you to post and actually discuss it in your own words.

Your statement displays a tremendous amount of hypocrisy. See how ya are?

And I already did say so in my own words. I pointed out that they are all the worst, and then I shared a professional opinion to back up my own worded original statement...........................

[Iliad]

Phatscotty I'm going to have to ask you not to try and derail this thread. Also if you can't watch a video, digest its point and then rephrase it in your own words, then don't bother posting your youtube links.


This thread is a no-troll zone.

I find it mildly funny that you let a whole page of discussion about the Liberty incident go by without comment, but a video about us presidents is trolling?

Saxitoxin gonna sax.

Sorry Scotty, if you have an opinion on which of the three presidents has been the best I will need you to post and actually discuss it in your own words.

Your statement displays a tremendous amount of hypocrisy. See how ya are?

And I already did say so in my own words. I pointed out that they are all the worst, and then I shared a professional opinion to back up my own worded original statement...........................

Your original worded statement was literally "they are the worst" and then a link to Dark Knight Rises bloopers. A real intellectual giant there.

you want to back up your opinion, well Scotty try to watch that video and then argue his/hers main points in your own words. Try to be able to form arguments in ways other than youtube links. If you're too fucking lazy to construct or at least paraphrase others argument then it seems like you're just trying to derail the threat and trolling.