RFID Good or Bad?

[warmonger1981]

Im with lootifer on this. I dont even like to drive down the road and see billboards, commercial on radio, tv, cell phone, telemarketers, peddlers and bums. Its pretty much telling me 24-7 to consume. If I consume 24-7 I will have to work that much harder. If i have to work that much harder Iim not a free man. I become a wage/debt slave. Most people are to blind by the shiny trinkets right in front of them. They cant see past that. Its ok to have things. I just don't like how corporations use propaganda and subliminal messages. Your brain processes 1000's of thiings a second but you only are conscience of a few at any given second. If a corporations has your spit second attention then they hooked you like a fish. Using colors are one of the best ways to catch a person

[rdsrds2120]

Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO

I'd rather have no ads and search for products myself.

edit: this is a generic comment; it doesnt really apply for something like my amazon or steam account. This is because when I am logged into my amazon/steam account and click on the store option I have already indicated that I would like to begin searching for products (otherwise I wouldnt be there - i dont, however, like the flash screens that pop up); by showing me some of the products that I might be interested in based on my purchase history (new scifi titles of something) is fine.

Active marketing and advertising is what I have the issue with. Active marketing that uses RFID or other tracking to me is a breach of privacy.

Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO

[BigBallinStalin]

The problem with RFID is that it literally turns everything on Earth into a marketable item. Every action of a persons life can be monitored. Unfortunately most people really will have no choice of privacy. Not every person will have an option. Its really about precise personal marketability. Being able to have you tuned into a matrix of unlimited marketing 24-7.

Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO

Heaven forbid you from trading for something useful!

[warmonger1981]

Heaven forbid I have some privacy to not be heckled by corporations. I know money is god to you. Sell your soul to the eye on the back of the dollar bill. That will never be me. You will say "Go do business some other place" as if it were that easy. You know thats not rational if your as smart as you portray yourself. Can you barter for everything?

[BigBallinStalin]

Heaven forbid I have some privacy to not be heckled by corporations. I know money is god to you. Sell your soul to the eye on the back of the dollar bill. That will never be me. You will say "Go do business some other place" as if it were that easy. You know thats not rational if your as smart as you portray yourself. Can you barter for everything?

You're an ideologue. You don't make sense to reasonable people, and you're acting like a religious fanatic.

Good job.

[warmonger1981]

You didn't answer my question. Can a person barter for everything? You seem like a capitalist pig with no morals but that's beside the point. If it doesn't equal profits to you nothing else makes sense. Egoist. Is there something wrong with privacy or not wanting to be marketed to 24-7? I'm a person not a cash register for corporations. BTW acting and being are two different things.

[2dimes]

Define "everthing". You could certainly barter for more than you need but your lifestyle might be altered.

[BigBallinStalin]

You didn't answer my question. Can a person barter for everything? You seem like a capitalist pig with no morals but that's beside the point. If it doesn't equal profits to you nothing else makes sense. Egoist. Is there something wrong with privacy or not wanting to be marketed to 24-7? I'm a person not a cash register for corporations. BTW acting and being are two different things.

If you were sincerely interested in deliberation, then you should stop making up crap like the underlined; otherwise, people won't take you seriously.

"Can a person barter for everything?"

Well, people have constraints and resources are scare, so No. Do you mean to ask: "Can anything be exchanged"?

Is there something wrong with privacy or not wanting to be marketed to 24-7?

No, and there's nothing wrong with voluntary exchange in the circumstance of RFIDs. You may not like it, but other people don't care or do enjoy it. Marx forbid, they might actually enjoy the gains of trade from the more effective marketing. There's nothing wrong with companies using a means to more efficiently serve customer preferences--so long as the exchange is voluntary.

[warmonger1981]

Not making things up. Just personal observation gave me that. Maybe like your religious fanatic comment. There oz a real thin line between voluntary and bog voluntary. If a person puts a gun to you'd head and says "walk". Is this truly voluntary? Same goes for some basic ways of living in this modern world.

[rdsrds2120]

Not making things up. Just personal observation gave me that. Maybe like your religious fanatic comment. There oz a real thin line between voluntary and bog voluntary. If a person puts a gun to you'd head and says "walk". Is this truly voluntary? Same goes for some basic ways of living in this modern world.

What are companies doing to force you to use RFID technology, and how does it affect you?

BMO

[BigBallinStalin]

Not making things up. Just personal observation gave me that. Maybe like your religious fanatic comment. There oz a real thin line between voluntary and bog voluntary. If a person puts a gun to you'd head and says "walk". Is this truly voluntary?

RE: underlined, cognitive bias isn't healthy.


No, because there's obviously coercion involved (the gun and the threat of violence).

So, what's wrong with RFIDs?

We've been through the benefits, and you haven't shown much except scaremongering.

[2dimes]

If I wanted corporations to know I was buying a plethora of condoms, grapes, coke zero, nipple clamps, mayonnaise, polka CDs and agriculture trade publications, every weekend I visit Saxi, I wouldn't buy them all at separate stores.

[Lootifer]

Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Kind of, but RFID in marketing is the tool in which is employed to do something I dont like. Think of it in a vacuum; if you remove RFID from the marketing toolset, you limit their capability to do the things I dont like; therefore I dont like RFID in marketing. I dont, however, delude myself that I am in anyway capable of getting the world to line up with my outlook on life; i just have to settle with being constantly annoyed I guess... Oh and call you all idiots for making stupid [debatably irrational] decisions based on manipulative marketing.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO

I am not interesting, nor a unique snowflake. I dont actually put much of a value at all on my own privacy.

What I loath is being manipulated - commonly called sales and marketing - into making decisions that I otherwise would not make in the absence of the manipulation.

So tracing it to me as a person or not is moot (and I mis-diagnosed my issue with it by calling it a breach of privacy); I would call it breach of my ability to live my live free of manipulation (which is not a right I cant lay claim to, but f*ck I wish I could - no logo tyvm). Again being a pragmatist I dont have any agenda other than calling the would-be manipulators no better than Matildas father, or as we call one in NZ, a bit of a c**t.

[BigBallinStalin]

Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Kind of, but RFID in marketing is the tool in which is employed to do something I dont like. Think of it in a vacuum; if you remove RFID from the marketing toolset, you limit their capability to do the things I dont like; therefore I dont like RFID in marketing. I dont, however, delude myself that I am in anyway capable of getting the world to line up with my outlook on life; i just have to settle with being constantly annoyed I guess... Oh and call you all idiots for making stupid [debatably irrational] decisions based on manipulative marketing.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO

I am not interesting, nor a unique snowflake. I dont actually put much of a value at all on my own privacy.

What I loath is being manipulated - commonly called sales and marketing - into making decisions that I otherwise would not make in the absence of the manipulation.

So tracing it to me as a person or not is moot (and I mis-diagnosed my issue with it by calling it a breach of privacy); I would call it breach of my ability to live my live free of manipulation (which is not a right I cant lay claim to, but f*ck I wish I could - no logo tyvm). Again being a pragmatist I dont have any agenda other than calling the would-be manipulators no better than Matildas father, or as we call one in NZ, a bit of a c**t.

So... would you say that Amazon's "Books Recommended For You" List is manipulative? If yes/no, how so?

[AndyDufresne]

BBS, you're going about warmonger all wrong. The Bad Translator is usually a proper and sufficient response.


--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

BBS, you're going about warmonger all wrong. The Bad Translator is usually a proper and sufficient response.


--Andy

Good idea.

"Bad BBS, radical. Bad tradition is often enough to give an answer. -Andy"

Ah, you so wise. Often enough to give, indeed!

[Lootifer]

Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Kind of, but RFID in marketing is the tool in which is employed to do something I dont like. Think of it in a vacuum; if you remove RFID from the marketing toolset, you limit their capability to do the things I dont like; therefore I dont like RFID in marketing. I dont, however, delude myself that I am in anyway capable of getting the world to line up with my outlook on life; i just have to settle with being constantly annoyed I guess... Oh and call you all idiots for making stupid [debatably irrational] decisions based on manipulative marketing.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO

I am not interesting, nor a unique snowflake. I dont actually put much of a value at all on my own privacy.

What I loath is being manipulated - commonly called sales and marketing - into making decisions that I otherwise would not make in the absence of the manipulation.

So tracing it to me as a person or not is moot (and I mis-diagnosed my issue with it by calling it a breach of privacy); I would call it breach of my ability to live my live free of manipulation (which is not a right I cant lay claim to, but f*ck I wish I could - no logo tyvm). Again being a pragmatist I dont have any agenda other than calling the would-be manipulators no better than Matildas father, or as we call one in NZ, a bit of a c**t.

So... would you say that Amazon's "Books Recommended For You" List is manipulative? If yes/no, how so?

No. I mentioned that specific example earlier. I'm thinking facebook/google ads extrapolated (in themselves they are pretty easy to ignore, but their philosophy/method is what I dont like).

[BigBallinStalin]

Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Kind of, but RFID in marketing is the tool in which is employed to do something I dont like. Think of it in a vacuum; if you remove RFID from the marketing toolset, you limit their capability to do the things I dont like; therefore I dont like RFID in marketing. I dont, however, delude myself that I am in anyway capable of getting the world to line up with my outlook on life; i just have to settle with being constantly annoyed I guess... Oh and call you all idiots for making stupid [debatably irrational] decisions based on manipulative marketing.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO

I am not interesting, nor a unique snowflake. I dont actually put much of a value at all on my own privacy.

What I loath is being manipulated - commonly called sales and marketing - into making decisions that I otherwise would not make in the absence of the manipulation.

So tracing it to me as a person or not is moot (and I mis-diagnosed my issue with it by calling it a breach of privacy); I would call it breach of my ability to live my live free of manipulation (which is not a right I cant lay claim to, but f*ck I wish I could - no logo tyvm). Again being a pragmatist I dont have any agenda other than calling the would-be manipulators no better than Matildas father, or as we call one in NZ, a bit of a c**t.

So... would you say that Amazon's "Books Recommended For You" List is manipulative? If yes/no, how so?

No. I mentioned that specific example earlier. I'm thinking facebook/google ads extrapolated (in themselves they are pretty easy to ignore, but their philosophy/method is what I dont like).

So... gathering information on a voluntary basis about one's customers is something you dislike and is somehow manipulative.

How about customer surveys? (Filling out forms about what you like and don't like). Is that a method/philosophy you don't like?

Or what about complaint departments? That's gathering information which is later used to more accurately serve customers (granted: some customers are not in the target market, but those customers have yet to realize that). Is gathering information through a complaint department and using that information despicable and somehow manipulative?

[2dimes]

Hi could we have a moment of your time for a brief survey is different from someone entering your home to look at how you use what products.

You posting a picture on Facebook is different from someone else posting the same picture here.

Your cell phone provider asking, "Would you like to use an optional smart phone that tracks RFID chips put in products?" Is not the same as all smart phones being set to do it automatically.

[rdsrds2120]

Hi could we have a moment of your time for a brief survey is different from someone entering your home to look at how you use what products.

You posting a picture on Facebook is different from someone else posting the same picture here.

Your cell phone provider asking, "Would you like to use an optional smart phone that tracks RFID chips put in products?" Is not the same as all smart phones being set to do it automatically.

The RFID technology presentes is not aimed at being someone entering your home to look at how you use what products in the slightest. So far, all sourced RFID use discussed in this thread has been in-store only.

BMO

[2dimes]

I did not say they do. There's nothing technological lacking for a smart phone to detect RFID and report it.

You can decide for yourself if you like that or not.

[Lootifer]

So... gathering information on a voluntary basis about one's customers is something you dislike and is somehow manipulative.

How about customer surveys? (Filling out forms about what you like and don't like). Is that a method/philosophy you don't like?

Or what about complaint departments? That's gathering information which is later used to more accurately serve customers (granted: some customers are not in the target market, but those customers have yet to realize that). Is gathering information through a complaint department and using that information despicable and somehow manipulative?

Eh i've lost my thread somewhere along here...

I suppose I am only talking about non-voluntary (or pseudo-non-voluntary where the person collecting the information omits or hides the real use they have planned for the information through fine print etc).

[rdsrds2120]

I did not say they do. There's nothing technological lacking for a smart phone to detect RFID and report it.

You can decide for yourself if you like that or not.

Right, but the point BBS and I are making is the voluntary use of that. I think I'm confused on where you stand on the idea of RFID as a whole.

BMO

[2dimes]

I would prefer information on what we buy and or how we use things was disclosed for collection voluntarily. That means you would be able to not participate if you wanted out. I know to a small extent some data is collected via purchase/inventory tracking systems.

I like to discuss RFID and the fact that corporations could collect data without your knowledge and permission. If so that is not voluntary.

I'm not saying any are, but I don't believe you could you stop it.

What ever any entity does or does not use RFIDs, cell phone/Internet activity, credit, purchase and any other records for is beyond our control. Apart from not purchasing things, using phones, computers, postal services etc.

[BigBallinStalin]

So... gathering information on a voluntary basis about one's customers is something you dislike and is somehow manipulative.

How about customer surveys? (Filling out forms about what you like and don't like). Is that a method/philosophy you don't like?

Or what about complaint departments? That's gathering information which is later used to more accurately serve customers (granted: some customers are not in the target market, but those customers have yet to realize that). Is gathering information through a complaint department and using that information despicable and somehow manipulative?

Eh i've lost my thread somewhere along here...

I suppose I am only talking about non-voluntary (or pseudo-non-voluntary where the person collecting the information omits or hides the real use they have planned for the information through fine print etc).

Oh, I'm against fraud too.