ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[PLAYER57832]

... I appreciate the measured response, but...

... "Granfather" here means insurance that is in force if/when this bill passes, correct?

... Under "Limitation on New Enrollment", we see, ...

(A) In General. - Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offerring such (the grandfather) coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1."

... What comes after concerns dependents and the terms & conditions, not relevant to the argument.

... PLAYER, anybody, tell me how this can mean anything but the illegality of new insurance policies, issued by insurance companies, acting independently of government. Such becomes illegal - show me where I'm wrong. (not being snarky here - time for that later when I know what I'm talking about).

...

If you reread just about any type of legislation, pertaining to contracts of just about any kind, you will see something similar.

All it means is that the policies that will be offered after the legislation must be different from the old policies because the rules have changed. In no way does it mean that insurers cannot offer new policies. Its just they have to offer new policies that meet the new legal criteria.

[PLAYER57832]

You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.

YES!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT!!!! I hope the rest of you non-US citizens take this statement to heart.

Someone who has not dealt with Blue Cross, except perhaps as a high-tiered Highmark policy holder

BECAUSE, I can absolutely gaurantee it is far easier to deal with any government agency -- EVEN AN IRS AUDIT, than to have to deal with those jerks. Furthermore, you wind up having to deal with their worst right when you need it most .. when your kid or spouse or you yourself are sick and having to make critical medical decisions.

[PLAYER57832]

So what would you guys be willing to pay to go see a doctor? Should it be "free"? Somebody complained about $70, which I think is very cheap. How much is your life and health and the valuable time of a doctor worth? I bet it's harder and requires more school and expensive equipment and insurance than being a lawyer, and I know lawyers that don't think anything of charging $200+ for a 1 hour consult...some of them are $4000/hour.....

Let's get some reality here.

I live in an area that is not precisely wealthy. Even the most basic of visits cost from $50 (for basic Chiropratic manipulation) to $90 (for most physicals). A few flu clinics do offer flu (only) vaccines for $20. HOWEVER, to get the vaccines your child needs to enter school costs around $400 minimum... and you have to duplicate them 3 times.

A basic gynecological exam..initial patient visit is aroun $120. Additional visits vary. If you get the standard pap smear, etc it will run you another $125 without insurance. I have no idea about mammograms, except a friend told me it cost here $750.

In PA, you kids are required, by law to get dental visits in various grades (1rst and 3rd, not sure when else). That is another $55 just for a basic visit. Eye exams are about $80. Glasses run from $120- over $300 depending on the lenses (note, we don't live in a city with those 2 for $50 or whatever deals they are now offering, furthermore those rates only ever apply to basic perscriptions, without stigmatisms or such).

Teh doctors don't get most of that money. It goes to offices, receptionists, medical records agencies, billing agencies, etc.

[thegreekdog]

You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.

YES!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT!!!! I hope the rest of you non-US citizens take this statement to heart.

Someone who has not dealt with Blue Cross, except perhaps as a high-tiered Highmark policy holder

BECAUSE, I can absolutely gaurantee it is far easier to deal with any government agency -- EVEN AN IRS AUDIT, than to have to deal with those jerks. Furthermore, you wind up having to deal with their worst right when you need it most .. when your kid or spouse or you yourself are sick and having to make critical medical decisions.

Clearly you have never dealt with an IRS audit. In any case, perhaps there needs to be government regulation on the type of bureaucracy you're describing with various health insurance entities.

[Snorri1234]

Even if the US bureaucracy is so much more worse than in Europe, this will still perform so much more better than the current system.

[PLAYER57832]

You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.

YES!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT!!!! I hope the rest of you non-US citizens take this statement to heart.

Someone who has not dealt with Blue Cross, except perhaps as a high-tiered Highmark policy holder

BECAUSE, I can absolutely gaurantee it is far easier to deal with any government agency -- EVEN AN IRS AUDIT, than to have to deal with those jerks. Furthermore, you wind up having to deal with their worst right when you need it most .. when your kid or spouse or you yourself are sick and having to make critical medical decisions.

Clearly you have never dealt with an IRS audit. In any case, perhaps there needs to be government regulation on the type of bureaucracy you're describing with various health insurance entities.

Actually, I have. However, I have heard pure horror stories.

I probably was wrong in saying they were worse, but it is certainly no better. Also, both can go on for years and require lots of your personal money to fight .. something some people facing audits have and few facing Blue Cross have.

[thegreekdog]

Even if the US bureaucracy is so much more worse than in Europe, this will still perform so much more better than the current system.

As I've said many times, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing debate. My problem with the current healthcare plan (which I have actually read) is that it is an "all" plan. I think we can have universal healthcare without a government single-payor system. This is generally called compromise, and is generally what happens in the United States.

(1) Federal government creates regulations making it easier for Americans to get health insurance coverage instead of getting the runaround from their providers
(2) Federal government expands and revamps Medicare to ensure that the uninsured Americans who cannot afford health insurance get coverage.

That should work well without having a single payor system.

[jsholty4690]

The main problem with most of the Health Care plans is that they would need tax increases on most Americans (although I'm a Republican, I'm for the increase). And personally, I don't see many Americans getting on that bandwagon because 1) Obama promised to increase taxes only on the super rich and 2) no one likes to see their money go bye bye (At least most Americans don't).

[Phatscotty]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

[Snorri1234]

The main problem with most of the Health Care plans is that they would need tax increases on most Americans (although I'm a Republican, I'm for the increase). And personally, I don't see many Americans getting on that bandwagon because 1) Obama promised to increase taxes only on the super rich and 2) no one likes to see their money go bye bye (At least most Americans don't).

While it's certainly true that a tax increase will make people unlikely to agree with the plan, it's probable that the money they pay in taxes will be far less than the money they would have spent on insurance.

[jsholty4690]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

[Phatscotty]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

OK, so they are SOOOOOO bad at holding a budget, you justify that as a reason to give them more? Think about it

[PLAYER57832]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

OK, so they are SOOOOOO bad at holding a budget, you justify that as a reason to give them more? Think about it

The government of today is not the government of 4 years ago or 8 years ago ... think about it.

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

[Phatscotty]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

like your comment, can't figure your signature tho

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

like your comment, can't figure your signature tho

It's pointing out to those who do not know history that we have only had 2 world wars not 3. Aside from that, 100 Million people died in the first 2 wars and way less than that die from DUI's each year....WAAAAAAYYYYYY LESSSSSSSS

[Phatscotty]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

[spurgistan]

Yep, if there's one poster here who reduces everything down to two lines of ad hominem, it's player57832. If only she wrote a bit more substantially...

[PLAYER57832]

Even if the US bureaucracy is so much more worse than in Europe, this will still perform so much more better than the current system.

As I've said many times, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing debate. My problem with the current healthcare plan (which I have actually read) is that it is an "all" plan. I think we can have universal healthcare without a government single-payor system. This is generally called compromise, and is generally what happens in the United States.

(1) Federal government creates regulations making it easier for Americans to get health insurance coverage instead of getting the runaround from their providers
(2) Federal government expands and revamps Medicare to ensure that the uninsured Americans who cannot afford health insurance get coverage.

That should work well without having a single payor system.

The current health care bill does not include a single-payor system.

I would like to see one, yes, but that is not in the bill.

[comic boy]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

Wise words from the retard who, despite her describing herself as a mother hundreds of times, cannot work out players sex yet

[Snorri1234]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

Wise words from the retard who, despite her describing herself as a mother hundreds of times, cannot work out players sex yet

There is a chance she's Arnold Schwarzenegger though.

[Snorri1234]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877


Yay for crazy conservatives.

Best part:

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Funniest shit ever.

[Snorri1234]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance....
.and it will.

IT WILL DESTROY PRIVATE OPTIONS EVEN THOUGH OUR ENTIRE POLITICAL VIEWPOINT REVOLVES AROUND HOW AWESOME PRIVATE STUFF IS LIKE HEAPS BETTER THAN GOVERNMENT STUFF!!!!

Seriously, you fucks better stop toting around this backwards viewpoint which is untrue from both a practical and a theoretical view and just admit you're wrong.

Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before.

Just like all those people in Europe complaining?

Wait....the complaints in Europe are nearly non-existent! BY GODS!

Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment.

Done. Are you seriously saying that just leaving the poor people with cancer to die is awesome?

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone.

Uhhhrrr.....are you sure you're not just letting your backwards and racist views influence your judgment?

It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap.

Yes indeed. If you complete retards who oppose Universal Health Care on the grounds of it being "socialist" would just shut the f*ck up this bill would be far smaller.

Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone.

So warn us when this bill mentions things are going to be "free". In the event that these mythical freeloaders approach the number of people who go bankrupt over medical bills each year in the US I'm sure you'd be so kind as to drop us a line. (60% of the bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, whereas in the rest of the western world that number is 0%.)

They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

Soooo why is that awesome reform not being promoted?

[Titanic]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877


Yay for crazy conservatives.

Best part:

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Funniest shit ever.

Possibly the greatest quote ever.

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

So every private company out there must be bankrupt then.

so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance....
.and it will.

IT WILL DESTROY PRIVATE OPTIONS EVEN THOUGH OUR ENTIRE POLITICAL VIEWPOINT REVOLVES AROUND HOW AWESOME PRIVATE STUFF IS LIKE HEAPS BETTER THAN GOVERNMENT STUFF!!!!

I never said "how awesome" private stuff is. I am saying the Gov controlling things is no better and is dangerous. They are running some healthcare right now and IT"S GOING BROKE! Show me the proof they will keep the costs down.

Seriously, you fucks better stop toting around this backwards viewpoint which is untrue from both a practical and a theoretical view and just admit you're wrong.

Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before.

Just like all those people in Europe complaining?

Wait....the complaints in Europe are nearly non-existent! BY GODS!

Really? How many people from the U.S. go abroad for healthcare services now and how many from abroad come here who can not get care in their own country?

Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment.

Done. Are you seriously saying that just leaving the poor people with cancer to die is awesome?

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone.

Uhhhrrr.....are you sure you're not just letting your backwards and racist views influence your judgment?

Uhhhrrr.....No, I am saying that AMERICAN taxpayers should not be TAXED to provide FREE healthcare to ILLEGALS when the goal is supposedly AFFORDABLE CARE FOR AMERICANS! When has Obama been pitching we need to cover 12 million illegals? What about this don't you understand?

It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap.

Yes indeed. If you complete retards who oppose Universal Health Care on the grounds of it being "socialist" would just shut the f*ck up this bill would be far smaller.

That just makes no sense so maybe you try to explain how stupid you are by saying that. Sooooo us opposing the current bill because we think there is too much crap in it somehow makes it longer? Ok, got it.

Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone.

So warn us when this bill mentions things are going to be "free". In the event that these mythical freeloaders approach the number of people who go bankrupt over medical bills each year in the US I'm sure you'd be so kind as to drop us a line. (60% of the bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, whereas in the rest of the western world that number is 0%.)

A bill which will provide free care for 12 million illegals.....Hmmmm ok I'll let you know when a different bill gives free care as the current one. Also, 12 million freeloaders from Mexico surpass the number of Americans who go bankrupt over medical each year 10-1. So yeah, I'll let you know, oh wait I just did.

They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

Soooo why is that awesome reform not being promoted?

Because Obama is not interested in that.