Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

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Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

Postby Night Strike on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:32 pm

Senate Democrats in Wisconsin failed to show up Thursday for a vote on a "union-busting" bill that has prompted police officers to launch a dragnet for the missing lawmakers.

Republicans hold a 19-14 majority but a vote cannot be taken until at least one Democratic senator is present.

"It's kind of unbelievable that they're elected to do a job and they wouldn't show up to do it," Republican Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald told Fox News.

Fitzgerald said the apparent boycott may force the State Assembly to vote first on the bill. But he added that if police officers find the lawmakers, they will bring them back to the chamber for a vote.

"This isn't something I've ever seen in the state of Wisconsin," he said. "It's a very volatile situation right now but those people were elected to do a job and unfortunately they're not doing it. They're not representing the people of their district."

The bill has sparked a storm of protest for three days. Teachers marching at Wisconsin's Capitol Building in Madison shut down schools for a second day Thursday so they could demand collective bargaining rights that they say are essential to keeping kids in school.

Dozens of schools closed as a result of high absences as thousands of protesters, including students and teachers, marched on the Capitol building to demand state lawmakers strike down a bill that would require union concessions worth $30 million by July 1 and $300 million over the next two years.

The bill, which also bans collective bargaining rights for teachers, requires educators to contribute 5.8 percent to their pensions and 12.6 percent to their health care. Currently, educators pay 0.2 percent for their pensions and 4 to 6 percent of their health care costs.

"Our goal is not to close schools, but to instead to remain vigilant in our efforts to be heard," said Mary Bell, president of the 98,000-strong Wisconsin Education Association Council.

State lawmakers proposed the legislation as part of an effort to close a $3.6 billion budget gap, and say they expect it to pass and eventually reach the desk of newly elected Republican Gov. Scott Walker.

"This bill isn't about an assault on public employees. We have great public employees throughout the state, I have them in my district, hard-working folks," said Republican state Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald. "What this is is about the budget. We're $3.6 billion in the hole. We're not going to raise taxes to solve it. We all ran, you know, this last election cycle on saying that we are going to cut government spending. ... Everybody is going to have to do their part."

But Michael Langyel, head of the Milwaukee Teachers Education Association, said Walker and Republican lawmakers are asking public employees to give up more than everyone else.

"If people say the only way to solve this budget crisis is to take away from people who are working hard, they are wrong. We believe that we have a right to have a fair wage for our hard work. More importantly, the collective bargaining process allows us to positively impact school policy issues. We are the advocates for our students, and we will maintain our voice in defending our students," he told Fox News.

Langyel added that if Walker wants to balance the budget, he should force his friends to pay more.

"There are many people who support the governor who contribute nothing and pay nothing and are not contributing. This is the time to have fair taxation in the state of Wisconsin, where the friends of the governors do not get a free ride and the hard-working people have to carry the extra burden," he said.

Speaking Wednesday to WTMJ4 in Milwaukee, President Obama weighed into the debate, saying that making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain "seems like more of an assault on unions."

"I think it is very important for us to understand that public employees, they're our neighbors, they're our friends," he said. "These are folks who are teachers and they're firefighters and they're social workers and they're police officers."

It is important "not to vilify them or to suggest that somehow all these budget problems are due to public employees," Obama said.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan told Fox News on Thursday that he is "troubled by the current climate" but was hopeful for a good resolution. He added that everyone is going to have to compromise even as teachers perform "Herculean" work.

"We have to work together with them to give every child a chance for a great education and we need to work together and we need to prove outside the comfort zone but to vilify one group or demonize one group doesn't move us as a country that we need to go," Duncan said.

But Walker said the demands on public employees are "modest" compared with those in the private sector, and are meant to prevent a shutdown, which could result in 6,000 state workers not getting paid.

"We're at a point of crisis," the governor said, adding that he would call out the National Guard if needed to keep state operations, including prisons, running.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2008, the average salary for an elementary school teacher was $51, 240 while middle school educators earned $50,950 and high school teachers earned $49, 400.

Wisconsin's measure would end collective bargaining for state, county and local workers, except for police, firefighters and the state patrol. Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

Republican-backed changes to the bill made by the state's Senate budget committee Wednesday would extend a grievance procedure to public workers who don't have one and require more oversight and put a deadline on changes.

Fitzgerald said despite the heated debate, and individual threats against lawmakers, the majority of Wisconsin residents approve of the bill.

"Although the protesters have been very rowdy, very one sided on what legislators are hearing, there's a silent majority out there that spoke on November 2, said, you know, we have to (head the state) in the right direction to put our fiscal house in order. So that's what we're going to do. It's very difficult but you know that's what we're set out to do and hopefully."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/17/teachers-march-wisconsin-capitol-senate-moves-curtail-union-rights/#ixzz1EFZuYlzp

If they walk out on the job, does that mean we can withhold their pay and hire new ones that will actually do their jobs? Cowards.
Last edited by Night Strike on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Timminz on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:34 pm

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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby maasman on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Just reading the first few lines, I think they are doing their job.
I bet most of the people who voted them into office are boycotting the bill by walking out of school right now, so they are representing them well.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby targetman377 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:37 pm

i go to school in Wisconsin and guess what my teachers walked out at 12 and one of my other classes was canceled.

My take is if you want unions get raid of labor laws

don't want unions keep labor laws

don't have both.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby maasman on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:38 pm

targetman377 wrote:i go to school in Wisconsin and guess what my teachers walked out at 12 and one of my other classes was canceled.

My take is if you want unions get raid of labor laws

don't want unions keep labor laws

don't have both.

Which school?
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby targetman377 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:38 pm

i will say that all they are doing is a filibuster!!! which i agree the minority should always have that option!
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby targetman377 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:39 pm

maasman wrote:
targetman377 wrote:i go to school in Wisconsin and guess what my teachers walked out at 12 and one of my other classes was canceled.

My take is if you want unions get raid of labor laws

don't want unions keep labor laws

don't have both.

Which school?

i go to the university of Wisconsin River Falls.

original from Minnesota!
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby maasman on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:40 pm

Lol, my house is/was 1 block from ramer field.
I'm down in Milwaukee now for school.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby targetman377 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:43 pm

maasman wrote:Lol, my house is/was 1 block from ramer field.
I'm down in Milwaukee now for school.

really you grew up in river falls! i live by the lab farm 1
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby maasman on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:44 pm

targetman377 wrote:really you grew up in river falls! i live by the lab farm 1


Yep, I lived there for 18 years.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:45 pm

I see no difference between this and a filibuster. Both are for the same exact reason. If you don't want this to happen, don't put in the law that requires them to be present. And as you have said:

Night Strike wrote:The American people are the ones who lose if the filibuster was removed. Part of the prestige of the Senate is that cooler heads are able to prevail due to the 6 year terms and by forcing the 60 votes for cloture. This will almost always lead to better and truly bipartisan bills, no matter who is in power. The filibuster allows for rationality to trump the whims of a simple majority.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Night Strike on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:50 pm

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Sorry, I usually remember to remove the other story mentions. It's been edited.

targetman377 wrote:i will say that all they are doing is a filibuster!!! which i agree the minority should always have that option!


A filibuster requires one to actually be present and speaking in order to maintain the filibuster, so it requires actual effort on the complaintant's part. Running away and hiding takes no effort to maintain, which is why they're not at all the same thing.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:11 pm

maasman wrote:Just reading the first few lines, I think they are doing their job.
I bet most of the people who voted them into office are boycotting the bill by walking out of school right now, so they are representing them well.


The governor is a Republican. I don't think conservatives are pulling for the unions, but sure I bet some are there boycotting.

I don't think, currently, any member of these unions etc pay a single penny towards their retirement plans. Said retirement plans are among the best in the nation. It was good when they had enough money to afford it. Needless to say, they are running a huge deficit, which must be corrected by law.

One of the problems I have with these people, it seems they are demanding that the taxpayers continue to pay their exceptional pensions and benefits plans, and the taxpayers, on average, have far less benefits and smaller pension plans, if any. With what is going on in the country economically, it is no longer sustainable. The money has run out. The answer is not borrowing more, it's living within their means.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:12 pm

maasman wrote:
targetman377 wrote:really you grew up in river falls! i live by the lab farm 1


Yep, I lived there for 18 years.


Shout out to River Falls!
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:37 pm

Loose lips said about a week ago that if this measure passed in WI a similar one would be submitted in IL. This is awesome. Blocking collective representation is about as un-American as anything could be. Good on 'em. And this is only over a 3.6 Billion dollar gap. Wait till Illinois has to face it's $800000000000000000000000000000000000000 budget deficit this summer.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:04 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Loose lips said about a week ago that if this measure passed in WI a similar one would be submitted in IL. This is awesome. Blocking collective representation is about as un-American as anything could be. Good on 'em. And this is only over a 3.6 Billion dollar gap. Wait till Illinois has to face it's $800000000000000000000000000000000000000 budget deficit this summer.


Yeah I see Illinois is right up in lala-land with New York, who is cutting 6,000 teachers, and California, which is handing out IOU's instead of money.

I understand this is more about the whole concept of not being able to fire someone, everyone gets the same raise, no matter what, even if they don't know what they are doing, things like that.

Further, it asks the union members to contribute 5% to their own pension and roughly 9% for their benefits or something like that. The national average for the private sector for what people contribute to their pension and towards their are both double.

I hope this guy has called Gov. Christie for advice

Must see TV for this topic for people who love and hate the Tea Party Rhetoric vs. Reality
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby patches70 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:11 pm

The sad thing it, the Gov. is just trying to save all their jobs. If something isn't done then a lot of those protesters are going to be out of jobs anyway. The State budget deficits are at catastrophic levels.


People are going to realize, real soon, that the age of austerity is already here in the US. We just aren't calling it that.

Here are 22 examples of austerity measures being put into place around the US already. And this is only the beginning.

1) The financial manager of Detroit Public Schools wants to close half of all city schools, leading to class sizes of up to 62 students.

2) Detroit Mayor Dave Bing wants to cut 20 percent of the city off from police and trash services.

3) California Gov. Jerry Brown is requiring 48,000 state workers to turn in their government cell phones by June 1st.

4) N.Y. Gov. Andrew Cuomo is proposing to completely eliminate 20 percent of state agencies.

5) NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg has closed 20 fire departments at night and is proposing layoffs in every single city agency.

6) Illinois lawmakers recently pushed through a 66% increase in the state's personal income tax rate.

7) The town of Prichard, Ala., recently stopped sending pension checks to retirees in violation of state law.

8- N.J. Gov. Chris Christie purposely skipped a scheduled $3.1 billion payment to the state's pension system.

9) New Jersey still faces a $10 billion budget deficit this year even after cutting $1 billion from the education budget and laying off thousands of teachers.

10) Major cuts to Newark's police force have led to a substantial spike in the city's crime rate.

11) Camden, N.J., the second-most dangerous city in America, recently laid off half of its police force due to a huge budget shortfall.

12) Philly, Baltimore and Sacramento have started "rolling brownouts," shutting down city fire stations on a rotating basis.

13) In Georgia, Clayton County eliminated its public bus system to save $8 million.

14) Due to budget cuts, OAKLAND POLICE WILL STOP RESPONDING TO SEVERAL CRIMES, INCLUDING CAR WRECKS, GRAND THEFT AND BURGLARY.

15) In Connecticut, the governor wants state legislators to pass the biggest tax increase the state has seen in two decades.

16) State parks and historic sites are deteriorating due to widespread budget shortfalls.

17) Arizona has decided to stop paying for many types of organ transplants for people enrolled in the state's Medicaid program.

18) Arizona is so desperate for money they have sold off the state capitol building, the supreme court and the legislative chambers.

19) All over the nation, asphalt roads are being ground up and replaced with gravel because it is cheaper to maintain.

20) Illinois is such a financial disaster zone, it is difficult for even the state Comptroller to describe.

21) Chicago's budget is in such dire straits, officials are toying with the idea of setting up a city-owned casino to raise cash.

22) Mich. Gov. Rick Snyder is desperately looking for ways to cut the budget and says that "hundreds of jurisdictions" in the state could go bankrupt in the next few years.

Tighten up the belts, boys, the ride is about to get bumpy!
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby pimpdave on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:00 pm

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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby beezer on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:09 pm

We've seen these childish antics before from Democrats in Texas back in 2001 & 2003. Hey, if you don't like the results from an election, just throw a temper tantrum and flee the state. The Democrats were beaten and thrashed in the last election, but they want to pretend like it never happened. Waaaaaaaah!
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Woodruff on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:47 pm

patches70 wrote:1) The financial manager of Detroit Public Schools wants to close half of all city schools, leading to class sizes of up to 62 students.


This is just flat-out dumb. As in abysmally stupid. This would be a waste of EVERYONE'S time. It would be better to close ALL of the schools than to close half of them...yes, I am completely serious. Why? Because you'll save FAR more money and get EXACTLY AS MUCH EDUCATING DONE.

patches70 wrote:3) California Gov. Jerry Brown is requiring 48,000 state workers to turn in their government cell phones by June 1st.


This one actually makes a lot of sense to me. Who would have thought California could do such a thing?

patches70 wrote:7) The town of Prichard, Ala., recently stopped sending pension checks to retirees in violation of state law.


Another pretty abysmally dumb one here.

patches70 wrote:11) Camden, N.J., the second-most dangerous city in America, recently laid off half of its police force due to a huge budget shortfall.


I sheepishly point up to my response to #1 above (get the hell out of Camden while you still can!).

patches70 wrote:13) In Georgia, Clayton County eliminated its public bus system to save $8 million.


As a desperation measure, this one also makes sense to me.

patches70 wrote:16) State parks and historic sites are deteriorating due to widespread budget shortfalls.


I'm ok with this. I don't like it...but it makes sense.

patches70 wrote:18) Arizona is so desperate for money they have sold off the state capitol building, the supreme court and the legislative chambers.


Uh...what?
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby HapSmo19 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:47 pm

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_ ... get_unions :

In response to a question of where she was, Sen. Lena Taylor sent a tweet saying she was "doing the people's business. Power to the PEOPLE."

LOL, WUT?
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby patches70 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:35 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patches70 wrote:1) The financial manager of Detroit Public Schools wants to close half of all city schools, leading to class sizes of up to 62 students.


This is just flat-out dumb. As in abysmally stupid. This would be a waste of EVERYONE'S time. It would be better to close ALL of the schools than to close half of them...yes, I am completely serious. Why? Because you'll save FAR more money and get EXACTLY AS MUCH EDUCATING DONE.

patches70 wrote:3) California Gov. Jerry Brown is requiring 48,000 state workers to turn in their government cell phones by June 1st.


This one actually makes a lot of sense to me. Who would have thought California could do such a thing?

patches70 wrote:7) The town of Prichard, Ala., recently stopped sending pension checks to retirees in violation of state law.


Another pretty abysmally dumb one here.

patches70 wrote:11) Camden, N.J., the second-most dangerous city in America, recently laid off half of its police force due to a huge budget shortfall.


I sheepishly point up to my response to #1 above (get the hell out of Camden while you still can!).

patches70 wrote:13) In Georgia, Clayton County eliminated its public bus system to save $8 million.


As a desperation measure, this one also makes sense to me.

patches70 wrote:16) State parks and historic sites are deteriorating due to widespread budget shortfalls.


I'm ok with this. I don't like it...but it makes sense.

patches70 wrote:18) Arizona is so desperate for money they have sold off the state capitol building, the supreme court and the legislative chambers.


Uh...what?


Why are you lecturing me? I didn't make those decisions, go tell it to the people who made em.

Oh, and your "Uh...what?", go look into it. Arizona sold their state capitol building, supreme court building and legislative building and now pay a lease. It works out cheaper for them somehow.

Regardless, you don't seem to understand the nature of the fiscal crisis that almost every single state is facing and how bad it is going to get very soon. There simple is no money. These states are billions of dollars in debt and can't pay. Everywhere where people have insisted on making government in charge of everything are finding out all about economic reality.

But, go ahead and bitch at me about it if it makes you feel better. I am just showing what is going on.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:51 pm

Here, in Minnesota, Governor Mark Dayton says he will veto a 1 billion dollar cut in spending, and is pushing a 1 billion dollar "stadium/civic center renovation" spending bill. The catch is he says he will let the republican senate and house decide how 500 million is spent. Al-a-carte time mates!

Our deficit is 6.5 billion, twice the size of Wisconsin. We are watching very closely. National Guard is on the ready over there.

On a positive note, the new sign over the bridge from Minnesota to Wisconsin. Where it used to have the old WI Governor's name on it, it now says "Open for Business." South Dakota is bombarding us with advertising trying to entice Minnesota Millionaires and small business owners across the border. I wonder if Dayton knew this would happen when he actually did what he said he would do, over and over again, which is "tax the rich". I hope his employment projections were not too rosy like Obama's. If Dayton gets what he wants, we will be almost as bad as New Jersey.

New Jersey went through hell to cut 1 billion, yet they still have 10 billion in debt. NJ can't even send out the pension checks to it's retired employees. Wisconsin will go the same way if the greedy public workers get their way. And I fear Minnesota will be worse. WTF we gonna have an 8 billion dollar deficit? Who the heck is gonna buy our bonds with that kind of risk?
Last edited by Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby karel on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:13 pm

glad the democrats walked out,just hope this spreads to other states and across the nation,about time someone stood up to these bonehead republicans
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Re: Wisconsin Democrats Literally Run Away From Tough Decisi

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:14 pm

karel wrote:glad the democrats walked out,just hope this spreads to other states and across the nation,about time someone stood up to these bonehead republicans


they don't have the money. What are they supposed to do?
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