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Republican War on Women Grows

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Republican War on Women Grows

Postby oVo on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:27 am

That may not be the best subject line title and yet it kind of fits the GOP's approach to perceived issues lately, like women's health resources and religion.

Last night I'm watching the news and there's Mittens Romney saying if he makes it to the Oval Office there are obvious programs that he would cut immediately. One is the National Endowment for the Arts, as if it's miniscule budget in the scheme of things would have an effect on the deficit. Another is Planned Parenthood. WTF dudes are you guys losing your marbles?

In Texas, Governor Perry has cut all state funds that go to Planned Parenthood. The law's immediate effect is losing $35,000,000 in federal funds that go towards providing women's health care and will directly impact clinics that serve 10 to 50 thousand women. Even though no federal funds can be used to provide abortions, any clinic providing health services that are associated with abortion has now lost all financial support from the state.

Usually the Culture Wars are a smoke screen to distract attention from other issues, so I'm wondering what Mittens is up to, but figure Republican's have decided it's time once again to make abortion the big issue by targeting Planned Parenthood.

As if that wasn't enough, Rick Santorum was stumping in Puerto Rico and made a statement that IF PR wants to become a state, then English needs to be the principle language spoken there. Currently both English and Spanish are the official language of the Commonwealth.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:21 am

Hahah, I can't believe Santorum said that. The GOP is just handing this to Obama.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:32 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Hahah, I can't believe Santorum said that. The GOP is just handing this to Obama.


I think Mittens is saying this crap so he can appeal to the conservatives. I doubt he would actually do anything.

Santorum on the other hand...

As for cutting funding to Planned Parenthood or the National Endowment for the Arts - I'm fine with that although there are significantly bigger fish to fry (like the military).
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:53 am

thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Hahah, I can't believe Santorum said that. The GOP is just handing this to Obama.


I think Mittens is saying this crap so he can appeal to the conservatives. I doubt he would actually do anything.

Santorum on the other hand...

As for cutting funding to Planned Parenthood or the National Endowment for the Arts - I'm fine with that although there are significantly bigger fish to fry (like almost of all them).


Fixed. :P

Imagine that, fried politicians. Crispy!
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:13 pm

How is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood a war on women?? Are there no other organizations that provide the same "services" they do? And if they're a private organization, why are they getting public money anyway? If they're so valuable, let individuals provide their funding, not the government.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:33 pm

Night Strike wrote:How is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood a war on women?? Are there no other organizations that provide the same "services" they do? And if they're a private organization, why are they getting public money anyway? If they're so valuable, let individuals provide their funding, not the government.

We should also let individuals fund disaster related responses too. These churches shouldn't get any assistance from the government.

FEMA: Variety of Government Assistance is Available to Churches


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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:57 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Night Strike wrote:How is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood a war on women?? Are there no other organizations that provide the same "services" they do? And if they're a private organization, why are they getting public money anyway? If they're so valuable, let individuals provide their funding, not the government.

We should also let individuals fund disaster related responses too. These churches shouldn't get any assistance from the government.

FEMA: Variety of Government Assistance is Available to Churches


--Andy


Actually, it's not the federal government's job to provide disaster relief anyway. Individuals are responsible for helping other individuals when disaster occur. That's why you ALWAYS see a massive outpouring of assistance whenever disasters occur. That's why you have organizations like the Red Cross and Convoy of Hope who respond in times of need.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:13 pm

Night Strike wrote:Actually, it's not the federal government's job to provide disaster relief anyway. Individuals are responsible for helping other individuals when disaster occur. That's why you ALWAYS see a massive outpouring of assistance whenever disasters occur. That's why you have organizations like the Red Cross and Convoy of Hope who respond in times of need.

It isn't it? They've been doing it since 1803! Someone should've let 'em know!


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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:28 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Actually, it's not the federal government's job to provide disaster relief anyway. Individuals are responsible for helping other individuals when disaster occur. That's why you ALWAYS see a massive outpouring of assistance whenever disasters occur. That's why you have organizations like the Red Cross and Convoy of Hope who respond in times of need.

It isn't it? They've been doing it since 1803! Someone should've let 'em know!


--Andy


It was also around that time that Thomas Jefferson denied a petition for assistance from a Texas area that had been hit hard by a drought. When their petition was denied, the surrounding committees donated 3 times the amount of money that the group had been seeking from the government. Individual contributions will ALWAYS be better than the government. The government's role in disasters is to maintain law and order and possibly help coordinate logistics. But even with logistics, there are so many of these organizations that have helped at so many disasters that they know what needs to be done to move supplies around and get work done efficiently.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:08 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Actually, it's not the federal government's job to provide disaster relief anyway. Individuals are responsible for helping other individuals when disaster occur. That's why you ALWAYS see a massive outpouring of assistance whenever disasters occur. That's why you have organizations like the Red Cross and Convoy of Hope who respond in times of need.

It isn't it? They've been doing it since 1803! Someone should've let 'em know!


--Andy


How does your information prove that it's the governments job? Just because they have in the past?
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:17 pm

This whole phony "war on women" is a complete farce. It assumes that, at the beginning of an election year, Republicans openly decide to alienate 53% of voters. "OMG, why would they do that? are they dumb? they are handing Obama the election!" Does that really make sense, or does it make more sense that the war on women is just another lie? This shows just how low Democrats are willing to sink and how much they need to base the 2012 election on hate and division, and it's absolutely pathetic.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:01 pm

Phatscotty wrote:This shows just how low Democrats are willing to sink and how much they need to base the 2012 election on hate and division, and it's absolutely pathetic.


You're so pathetically ignorant if you think that both sides don't do this. It's no wonder that true independents hate and mistrust both parties.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:15 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:This shows just how low Democrats are willing to sink and how much they need to base the 2012 election on hate and division, and it's absolutely pathetic.


You're so pathetically ignorant if you think that both sides don't do this. It's no wonder that true independents hate and mistrust both parties.


<---registered independent. hates and mistrusts both parties.

I know both sides do it, however, that does not make it okay with me just because the other side did it first, or both sides always d it, or what have you. (I never understood that argument, never will). Lies are lies and truth is truth. Simple as that.

As I've pointed out in the past, when Bush was president, everyone called me a liberal for the constant railing I did on Bush and the Republicans of old, because I am a real Independent. In fact, throwing out a large number of those Republicans in 2006, 2008, and especially in 2010 were all good times. I didn't come here until late 2009, when Democrats had super majorities.

I know how it looks right now, because the Democrats are in power, of course the people who are calling the shots are going to catch more flak from me than the people who aren't calling the shots, and that doesn't make me a pathetically ignorant Conservative or anything like that.

If you are not familiar with the lie that started the "war on women" you can check it out and then maybe see where I am coming from on this one.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby notyou2 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:20 pm

They should start taxing churches so they can pay for more abortions and disaster relief due to global warming.


Who's with me?
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:17 am

Don't be conned.

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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby oVo on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:10 am

That's a really well put together message,
but it's still bullshit.

Health issues, including those that involve women,
affect us all and preventative measures trump the
expense of aftercare. I'm not only considering the
abortion issue but all health risks.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby natty dread on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:08 am

f*ck you, Texas.

http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-stor ... ot-to-know

Halfway through my pregnancy, I learned that my baby was ill. Profoundly so. My doctor gave us the news kindly, but still, my husband and I weren’t prepared. Just a few minutes earlier, we’d been smiling giddily at fellow expectant parents as we waited for the doctor to see us. In a sonography room smelling faintly of lemongrass, I’d just had gel rubbed on my stomach, just seen blots on the screen become tiny hands. For a brief, exultant moment, we’d seen our son—a brother for our 2-year-old girl.

Yet now my doctor was looking grim and, with chair pulled close, was speaking of alarming things. “I’m worried about your baby’s head shape,” she said. “I want you to see a specialist—now.”

My husband looked angry, and maybe I did too, but it was astonishment more than anger. Ours was a profound disbelief that something so bad might happen to people who think themselves charmed. We already had one healthy child and had expected good fortune to give us two.

Instead, before I’d even known I was pregnant, a molecular flaw had determined that our son’s brain, spine and legs wouldn’t develop correctly. If he were to make it to term—something our doctor couldn’t guarantee—he’d need a lifetime of medical care. From the moment he was born, my doctor told us, our son would suffer greatly.

So, softly, haltingly, my husband asked about termination. The doctor shot me a glance that said: Are you okay to hear this now? I nodded, clenched my fists and focused on the cowboy boots beneath her scrubs.

She started with an apology, saying that despite being responsible for both my baby’s care and my own, she couldn’t take us to the final stop. The hospital with which she’s affiliated is Catholic and doesn’t allow abortion. It felt like a physical blow to hear that word, abortion, in the context of our much-wanted child. Abortion is a topic that never seemed relevant to me; it was something we read about in the news or talked about politically; it always remained at a safe distance. Yet now its ugly fist was hammering on my chest.

My doctor went on to tell us that, just two weeks prior, a new Texas law had come into effect requiring that women wait an extra 24 hours before having the procedure. Moreover, Austin has only one clinic providing second-trimester terminations, and that clinic might have a long wait. “Time is not on your side,” my doctor emphasized gently. For this reason, she urged us to seek a specialist’s second opinion the moment we left her office. “They’re ready for you,” she said, before ushering us out the back door to shield us from the smiling patients in the waiting room.

The specialist confirmed what our doctor had feared and sketched a few diagrams to explain. He hastily drew cells growing askew, quick pen-strokes to show when and where life becomes blighted. How simple, I thought, to just undraw those lines and restore my child to wholeness. But this businesslike man was no magician, and our bleak choices still lay ahead.

Next a genetic counselor explained our options and told us how abortions work. There was that word again, and how jarring and out-of-place it sounded. Weren’t we those practical types who got married in their 30s, bought a house, rescued a dog, then, with sensible timing, had one child followed by another? Weren’t we so predictable that friends forecast our milestones on Facebook? Suddenly something was wrong with our story, because something was wrong with our son. Something so wrong that any choice we made would unyoke us forever from our ordinary life.

Our options were grim. We learned that we could bring our baby into the world, then work hard to palliate his pain, or we could alleviate that pain by choosing to “interrupt” my pregnancy. The surgical procedure our counselor described was horrific, but then so seemed our son’s prospects in life. In those dark moments we had to make a choice, so we picked the one that seemed slightly less cruel. Before that moment, I’d never known how viscerally one might feel dread.

That afternoon, my husband and I drove through a spaghetti of highways, one of which led us to a nondescript building between a Wendy’s and a Brake Check. This was Planned Parenthood’s surgical center, part of the organization constantly in the news thanks to America’s polarizing cultural debates. On that very day, Planned Parenthood’s name was on the cover of newspapers because of a funding controversy with the Susan G. Komen Foundation. These clinics, and the controversial services they provide, are always under scrutiny. The security cameras, the double-doors and the restricted walkways assured us of that fact.

While my husband filled out the paperwork, I sat on a hard chair in the spartan reception area and observed my fellow patients. I was the oldest woman in the waiting room, as well as the only one who was visibly pregnant. The other patients either sat with their mothers or, enigmatically, alone. Together we solemnly marked time, waiting for our turn behind the doors.

Eventually we were called back, not to a consulting room, but to another holding area. There, the staff asked my husband to wait while a counselor spoke to me in private. My husband sat down. Posters above him warned women about signs of domestic abuse.

Meanwhile, I was enclosed with a cheerful-looking counselor who had colored hair and a piercing in her nose. Feeling like someone who’d stumbled into the wrong room, I told her between choked sobs how we’d arrived at her clinic on the highway.

“I am so sorry,” the young woman said with compassion, and nudged the tissues closer. Then, after a moment’s pause, she told me reluctantly about the new Texas sonogram law that had just come into effect. I’d already heard about it. The law passed last spring but had been suppressed by legal injunction until two weeks earlier.

My counselor said that the law required me to have another ultrasound that day, and that I was legally obligated to hear a doctor describe my baby. I’d then have to wait 24 hours before coming back for the procedure. She said that I could either see the sonogram or listen to the baby’s heartbeat, adding weakly that this choice was mine.

“I don’t want to have to do this at all,” I told her. “I’m doing this to prevent my baby’s suffering. I don’t want another sonogram when I’ve already had two today. I don’t want to hear a description of the life I’m about to end. Please,” I said, “I can’t take any more pain.” I confess that I don’t know why I said that. I knew it was fait accompli. The counselor could no more change the government requirement than I could. Yet here was a superfluous layer of torment piled upon an already horrific day, and I wanted this woman to know it.

“We have no choice but to comply with the law,” she said, adding that these requirements were not what Planned Parenthood would choose. Then, with a warmth that belied the materials in her hand, she took me through the rules. First, she told me about my rights regarding child support and adoption. Then she gave me information about the state inspection of the clinic. She offered me a pamphlet called A Woman’s Right to Know, saying that it described my baby’s development as well as how the abortion procedure works. She gave me a list of agencies that offer free sonograms, and which, by law, have no affiliation with abortion providers. Finally, after having me sign reams of paper, she led me to the doctor who’d perform the sonography, and later the termination.

The doctor and nurse were professional and kind, and it was clear that they understood our sorrow. They too apologized for what they had to do next. For the third time that day, I exposed my stomach to an ultrasound machine, and we saw images of our sick child forming in blurred outlines on the screen.

“I’m so sorry that I have to do this,” the doctor told us, “but if I don’t, I can lose my license.” Before he could even start to describe our baby, I began to sob until I could barely breathe. Somewhere, a nurse cranked up the volume on a radio, allowing the inane pronouncements of a DJ to dull the doctor’s voice. Still, despite the noise, I heard him. His unwelcome words echoed off sterile walls while I, trapped on a bed, my feet in stirrups, twisted away from his voice.

“Here I see a well-developed diaphragm and here I see four healthy chambers of the heart...”

I closed my eyes and waited for it to end, as one waits for the car to stop rolling at the end of a terrible accident.

When the description was finally over, the doctor held up a script and said he was legally obliged to read me information provided by the state. It was about the health dangers of having an abortion, the risks of infection or hemorrhage, the potential for infertility and my increased chance of getting breast cancer. I was reminded that medical benefits may be available for my maternity care and that the baby’s father was liable to provide support, whether he’d agreed to pay for the abortion or not.

Abortion. Abortion. Abortion. That ugly word, to pepper that ugly statement, to embody the futility of all we’d just endured. Futile because we’d already made our heart-breaking decision about our child, and no incursion into our private world could change it.

Finally, my doctor folded the paper and put it away: “When you come back in 24 hours, the legal side is over. Then we’ll care for you and give you the information you need in the way we think is right.”

A day later, we returned to the clinic for the surgery that had us saying goodbye to our son. On top of their medical duties, the nurses also held my hand and wiped my eyes and let me cry like a child in their arms.

Later, in reviewing the state-mandated paperwork I'd signed, I found a statement about women who may opt out of the new sonogram edict. It seemed that minors, victims of rape or incest, and cases in which the baby has an irreversible abnormality might be spared the extra anguish. I asked the Planned Parenthood staff about this and, after conferring privately, they thought that my child’s condition might have exempted me from the new sonogram rules. They apologized for their uncertainty, explaining that the law was so new they’d not had a chance to understand what it means in practice. “Could I have skipped the 24-hour wait, too?” I asked, wondering whether that extra day of distress might have been avoided. “No,” a staffer replied, “the mandatory wait applies to everyone.”

A few weeks later, I decided to clarify this for myself. I asked the Department of State Health Services, the agency responsible for implementing the sonogram law, who exactly is exempt. The department responded by email: “A woman would still be subject to the sonogram but would not be required to hear an explanation of the sonogram images if she certifies in writing that her fetus has an irreversible medical condition as identified by a reliable diagnostic procedure and documented in her medical file.” Based on this reply, it seems that the torturous description I'd borne was just a clerical mistake.

However, in looking through the paperwork I signed for Planned Parenthood, I noticed that the Department of State Health Services had issued technical guidelines four days after I'd been at the clinic. So for three weeks, abortion providers in Texas had been required to follow the sonogram law but had not been given any official instructions on how to implement it. Again, I asked the agency about this, and a spokesman replied as follows: “No specific guidance was issued during that time, but clinics were welcome to ask questions or seek guidance from their legal counsel if there were concerns.”

My experience, it seems, was a byproduct of complex laws being thrown into the tangled world of abortion politics. If I'd been there two weeks earlier or even a week later, I might have avoided the full brunt of this new law’s effect. But not so for those other young women I saw in Planned Parenthood’s waiting room. Unless they fall into one of those exemption categories—the conditions under which the state has deemed that some women’s reasons for having an abortion are morally acceptable—then they'll have politicians muscling in on their private decisions. But what good is the view of someone who has never had to make your terrible choice? What good is a law that adds only pain and difficulty to perhaps the most painful and difficult decision a woman can make? Shouldn’t women have a right to protect themselves from strangers’ opinions on their most personal matters? Shouldn’t we have the right not to know?
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:55 pm

oVo wrote:That's a really well put together message,
but it's still bullshit.

Health issues, including those that involve women,
affect us all and preventative measures trump the
expense of aftercare. I'm not only considering the
abortion issue but all health risks.


Killing innocent humans also affects us all.

Government mandates on what we're forced to buy or pay for also affect us, no matter how small or beneficial the purchase is. The Constitution gives the government no such authority to decide how we as individuals spend our money.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby notyou2 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:59 pm

Night Strike wrote:
oVo wrote:That's a really well put together message,
but it's still bullshit.

Health issues, including those that involve women,
affect us all and preventative measures trump the
expense of aftercare. I'm not only considering the
abortion issue but all health risks.


Killing innocent humans also affects us all.

Government mandates on what we're forced to buy or pay for also affect us, no matter how small or beneficial the purchase is. The Constitution gives the government no such authority to decide how we as individuals spend our money.



Do you not understand the difference between spending money and taxes?
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:04 pm

notyou2 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
oVo wrote:That's a really well put together message,
but it's still bullshit.

Health issues, including those that involve women,
affect us all and preventative measures trump the
expense of aftercare. I'm not only considering the
abortion issue but all health risks.


Killing innocent humans also affects us all.

Government mandates on what we're forced to buy or pay for also affect us, no matter how small or beneficial the purchase is. The Constitution gives the government no such authority to decide how we as individuals spend our money.



Do you not understand the difference between spending money and taxes?


I do. The government's health care mandates define how we are allowed to spend our own money, which is something they do not have the authority to do. Furthermore, their plans to pay the health care expenses of those who can't pay for themselves are unconstitutional and are way to expensive to sustain.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby notyou2 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:47 pm

So what you are saying is those that don't have a car should not pay taxes that are used for highways.

Or those that don't have children should not pay taxes that are used for schools.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:49 pm

Night Strike wrote:
oVo wrote:That's a really well put together message,
but it's still bullshit.

Health issues, including those that involve women,
affect us all and preventative measures trump the
expense of aftercare. I'm not only considering the
abortion issue but all health risks.


Killing innocent humans also affects us all.

An honest question here. Do you also think of this phrase in times of war? Our military, as great as they are, still unfortunately maim and kill innocent civilians. Should military funding and such be looked into because of this affect on us all?


--Andy
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby Night Strike on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:51 pm

notyou2 wrote:So what you are saying is those that don't have a car should not pay taxes that are used for highways.

Or those that don't have children should not pay taxes that are used for schools.


Hmm....when did I say that? I said the government can't come in and tell you what purchases you make out of your own pocket. I also said that the government providing health care is unconstitutional and unsustainable.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby notyou2 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:01 pm

Night Strike wrote:
notyou2 wrote:So what you are saying is those that don't have a car should not pay taxes that are used for highways.

Or those that don't have children should not pay taxes that are used for schools.


Hmm....when did I say that? I said the government can't come in and tell you what purchases you make out of your own pocket. I also said that the government providing health care is unconstitutional and unsustainable.



How is health money different from transportation money or education money?

You can't pick and choose.

Perhaps you need to live in a cave and become a hermit.
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Re: Republican War on Women Grows

Postby oVo on Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:03 pm

Night Strike wrote:Furthermore, their plans to pay the health care expenses of those who can't pay for themselves are unconstitutional and are way to expensive to sustain.

You do realize that nobody is denied emergency hospital treatment regardless of their ability to pay and that those costs average more than ten times what preventative measures cost? In many cases a serious illness that could have been resolved easily with early detection --or just a simple check up by a qualified doctor-- will cost tens of thousands of dollars to treat. Where do you think the funds come from to pay for that treatment?

A big hunk of my property taxes goes to the county hospital and schools.
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