An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

[tzor]

Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

You know, you really are easy. Too easy. So easy I wonder why I spend my time with Google. I'm horrid with Google. It took me one try. Here is the basis for the Genesis story, the creation myth of Babylon. The Enuma Elish.

When on high the heaven had not been named,
Firm ground below had not been called by name,
When primordial Apsu, their begetter,
And Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all,
Their waters mingled as a single body,
No reed hut had sprung forth, no marshland had appeared,
None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven.
Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called.

[Viceroy63]

Nice try tzor, but there is no reference to a beginning in that account you posted. Only a fixed point in time with an indication of a prior history. That's not the same thing that I ask for. Perhaps you are too easy?

"IN THE BEGINNING..." is a definite statement of the facts. It was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.

"IN THE BEGINNING, God Created the Heaven and the earth!"

Simple, to the point and revealed knowledge that could not be proven at the time but it is now. However evolution taking millions of years to happen sounds more like a fairy tale, that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Especially when there is no fossil evidence in support of the theory.

The theory of evolution is supported by lies like the Horse exhibit that is proven to be fabricated and every other exhibit that is used in support of this theory and have all been proven false as is demonstrated in this thread in the original post and throughout. All anyone has to do is read the OP. I even added links to other sources. And I am the one who is not providing evidence???? Hardly.

Not that you brought that up but others did and I wanted to mention it in this one comment post.

BTW: Do you notice a contradiction here...

"None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven..."

Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

[Army of GOD]

how is this thread still alive?

[crispybits]

Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

[chang50]

Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

He's the first cause,the uncaused cause,existing eternally outside of time and space...duh

[crispybits]

Yep - or in fallacy definition terms he is the exception that is begged

[Metsfanmax]

how am I still alive?

[tzor]

"IN THE BEGINNING..." is a definite statement of the facts. It was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.

"IN THE BEGINNING" is a direct mis-translation of the Biblical Hebrew.

[Viceroy63]

Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

Crispy; Read the comment dude? That religious account is claiming that gods are formed. "Before any god came into being..." Read it again will ya? Also don't be confused. God does not exist within our confines. We exist within His. If there was no time we would cease to exist but God would not. He exist outside of time and space so is not effected by His own creation.

Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

You know, you really are easy. Too easy. So easy I wonder why I spend my time with Google. I'm horrid with Google. It took me one try. Here is the basis for the Genesis story, the creation myth of Babylon. The Enuma Elish.

When on high the heaven had not been named,
Firm ground below had not been called by name,
When primordial Apsu, their begetter,
And Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all,
Their waters mingled as a single body,
No reed hut had sprung forth, no marshland had appeared,
None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven.
Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called.

The Bible makes no claim that God ever came into being but that God is eternal and outside of creation and not bounded by it. Yet this religious writ claims that the gods were created and yet logically it is a god that does the creating. It's like the question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Evolution in it's general meaning and principle proposes that life came from lifelessness. That from nothing came something. Think about it. Science acknowledges that before the "Big Bang" there was nothing. And then, somehow, it all just, exploded??? I might add, huh????????

Come on; Who is really talking fiction here. The Bible clearly states that There is a Beginning and that He is the Beginner of it all. There was nothing and then God made it all. It did not just happen and evolved from nothing from just some Big Bang alone. Any mathematician can tell you that no matter how much you multiply "0" the answer will always be "0". But God changes that equation. God is the only constant in the universe and outside of it.

And anyone who thinks that "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation from the original Hebrew text should supply a reference to that statement. I simply dare ya!

[MeDeFe]

Any mathematician can tell you that no matter how much you multiply "0" the answer will always be "0".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminate_form

[jonesthecurl]

Ah but all mathematicians are part of an international conspiracy to make money and avoid relabelling museum exhibits too.

[PLAYER57832]

Actually, if they ONLY read the Bible, they would not be young earth creationists. That level of idiocy requires paying close attention to a group of people who's goal is to ensure that people doubt what the scientific community is putting forward... one has to ask why.

If one follows the money, it becomes pretty clear that religion is the very least of their real reasons. A lot of people follow under the misguided assumption that the information they are believing is supported by religion, but anyone bothering to actually research finds young earther "information" is almost misunderstandings so "pat", so carefully just to the side of the truth that its pretty clear they are created by people who actually know the real truth and are trying very hard to hide it, along with a number of just plain fraud.

[crispybits]

Meh you're overthinking it Player - I just liked the fact it was a cavewoman Sarah Palin riding a T-Rex

[Viceroy63]

There really is no contradiction between true science and the truth of the Bible. The earth is very much older than 6,000 years but some thing happened and the earth became "void and desolate." The creation account of Genesis is really a recreation account because God did not create the earth void and desolate (Isaiah 45:18).

God has the power to create and to recreate all He wants. That is His prerogative. The problems comes in when religions can't cope with the truth. Especially that new religion of "Evolutionary Science" that claim that humans evolve from dirt and mud and have to make up lies and present it as "Evidence" in order to confuse and deceive the public to get the people to give them their money instead, without the people even being aware of the fact that they are being taken for fools and robbed.

Robbed of their tax payer dollars and of their understanding and logical thinking. Thus "The Rise of Ignorance," was a well selected choice of words for my article.

[BigBallinStalin]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

[Viceroy63]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

[DoomYoshi]

Viceroy. The very least you can do is read the Wikipedia page on genesis 1:1. I understand that the interpreter's bible is asking too much from you, but just read the wiki page and follow the sources labeled. You have been misinformed.

To paraphrase: the proper Hebrew can be understood as meaning either "In the Beginning" or "When, in the beginning". The second phrase has completely different meaning, and is the view that most biblical scholars hold today.

[BigBallinStalin]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Ah, so expand on the context, if you will. Until then, "let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."

I can just as easily say, This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in Judges 4:4

[AAFitz]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Well, I know of one woman who did an absolutely terrible job teaching.

And the point that the bible has many contradictions and cannot be taken literally has been the point we have been trying to make you see all along.

Its nice to see you agree there are contradictions now. Maybe that woman did a better job than I earlier suspected.

And speaking of contradictions, a truly narrow mind, would be incapable of reading into existence something that is not really there. That act would be labeled as a creative one, and while it may or may not result in a correct hypothesis, labeling it narrow, is just stupid, like everything else you've sprouted in here...no..its not stupid....this goes beyond stupid....

Its an obvious outright lie.

[oss spy]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Kind of like God, right?

[Viceroy63]

Well, I know of one woman who did an absolutely terrible job teaching.

And the point that the bible has many contradictions and cannot be taken literally has been the point we have been trying to make you see all along.

Its nice to see you agree there are contradictions now. Maybe that woman did a better job than I earlier suspected.

And speaking of contradictions, a truly narrow mind, would be incapable of reading into existence something that is not really there. That act would be labeled as a creative one, and while it may or may not result in a correct hypothesis, labeling it narrow, is just stupid, like everything else you've sprouted in here...no..its not stupid....this goes beyond stupid....

Its an obvious outright lie.

I would agree that there are only apparent contradictions. The truth is that contradiction or apparent contradictions are also a teaching tool that God uses in the Bible to make a point. An example of this would be Galatians 6:2 and 6:5. Two conflicting thoughts with one objective to get through to one. But if you read this out of context then you simply wont get it. Never!

As to the narrow mindedness; I wrote "Narrow mind lacking in understanding. Just to set the record straight. An excellent example of this is what happens to people who come forward with the truth and are Ostracized by the narrow minded scientific community lacking in wisdom and understanding, who can't face the truth that the theory of evolution has no foundation or proof of evidence to support it. It's all in the video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

[Metsfanmax]

I would agree that there are only apparent contradictions. The truth is that contradiction or apparent contradictions are also a teaching tool that God uses in the Bible to make a point. An example of this would be Galatians 6:2 and 6:5. Two conflicting thoughts with one objective to get through to one. But if you read this out of context then you simply wont get it. Never!

How are we supposed to resolve these apparent contradictions by reading it? Because someone else told us what the resolution is?

[tzor]

And anyone who thinks that "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation from the original Hebrew text should supply a reference to that statement. I simply dare ya!

I thought I did already HERE is the link, "The traditional translation, “In the beginning,” does not reflect the Hebrew syntax of the clause."

Let's get down and dirty with Hebrew ...HERE

This is the Hebrew of Genesis 1:1, the very beginning of the Bible. It is pronounced be-re-SHIYT ba-RA eh-lo-HIYM and is usually translated "In the beginning God created...."

The first word (reading right-to-left) is be-re-SHIYT. It is from the Hebrew root resh-aleph-shin, meaning "head, start, beginning," with the preposition bet on the front, meaning "in, on, at." So this word could be translated "in beginning" or "at start" or "at the head." The Hebrew name for the Jewish holiday Rosh HaShanah is from this same root, and means "head of the year" or "beginning of the year" -- Ha is the definite article "the" and Shanah is "year."

The second word is ba-RA, meaning create, shape or fashion. It is from the Hebrew word bet-resh-aleph.

The third word is eh-lo-HIYM, one of several names for God in the Hebrew Bible.

So a word-for-word translation might be "in-beginning created God."

Here is a more detailed explanation

Translations are notoriously difficult when different languages fail to match precisely. This is evident in the very first verse of the Bible, where translators into English struggled to convey the meaning of the Hebrew text. On examining two English versions of the opening verses in Genesis, we find that categorizing a key word as an adverb rather than a noun resolves these difficulties.

In order to remedy the difficulties of both versions, let us recall a rule of Hebrew morphology: The prefix be- in front of an abstract noun converts it into an adverb.

Examples in Biblical and modern Hebrew abound:

“Go and eat joyfully” (be-simcha, from simcha, joy), Eccl. 9:7.
“You will die peacefully” (be-shalom, from shalom, peace), Jer. 34:5
Be-sheket, silently, from sheket, silence.
Be-chavod, respectfully, from kavod, respect.
Bi-re-tzinut, seriously, from re-tzinut, seriousness.
In our case here, reisheet, origin, is an abstract noun; with be- it becomes the adverb be-reisheet, originally. Thus, the translation reads:

1. Originally, God created the heavens and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form and void… . 3. God said, ‘ Let there be light’, and there was light.

This version preserves the conciseness and the originality (no pun intended) of the Masoretic text.

[Metsfanmax]

Wait, tzor, you're saying God didn't write the Torah in English?

*gasp*

[Viceroy63]

And anyone who thinks that "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation from the original Hebrew text should supply a reference to that statement. I simply dare ya!

I thought I did already HERE is the link, "The traditional translation, “In the beginning,” does not reflect the Hebrew syntax of the clause."

Let's get down and dirty with Hebrew ...HERE

You have not proved that, "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation of the original Hebrew language. And those links that you provided also do not show how "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation. The only thing that you showed is that the word, "re'shiyth" has multiple uses. One of those uses is First, another is Chief. But the best usage for the text is...

"IN THE BEGINNING..."

In the spirit of the language it implies a first and before the first there was nothing. After all, 54 King James Bible scholars were the ones who decided the best translation for "re'shiyth."

A beginning is thus the statement of the spirit of these words. A beginning that could not have been proven scientifically until about 40 or 50 years ago. Our modern times.

That makes the Holy Bible the most relevant, up to date and ahead of it's time, science book (that man knows of), in the Universe.