Questions for Evolutionists

[Juan_Bottom]

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Science questions.... not "science questioned."

"Dad, why is the sky blue?"

"I dunno, gods or some shit.... yeah... that's it.... sky giants with blue farts, son!"

/religion

[qwertylpc]

2 things before I go to bed

1 While we may call it the theory of evolution, (since it can never be proved, just supported time and time again) we also call it the theory of gravity and I don't see you floating.

2 Think of older other religions such as the Greeks (because they are well known). Can you honestly, with a straight face believe there were half-naked people on top of a mountain controlling weather, wars, people etc. For example a wife cheating on her husband gets pregnant and says "Honey it was Zeus." It clearly is crazy. What makes Christianity better than/real opposed to Judaism, Confuscionism, Taoism or Islam. Just think of what people are going to think in hundreds of years.

[Symmetry]

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

What does this mean?
the space that the universe is in is not separate from the universe. It is the universe.
If that "space" had "come from" somewhere, that somewhere would have already been the universe.

Without the universe there is no "where".

Are you envisaging a volume with no universe in it, waiting to filled with universe? And if so, why?

I truly have no idea what you are asking here.

That is precisely the point. No where is what existed before there was a universe. "Nowhere" and "Nothing!" No dimensions of anything either space or time. Einstein demonstrated that, not me.

What we think is empty space is really not empty at all but filled with particles that transcend space and time and in turn make up empty space. So where did the fabric of the universe, the empty space, come from?

If there was "Nowhere" then where did the "Big Bang" happen? This is what Science is asking. How did it come to pass that at some point in the space time continuum, There was "Nowhere" and "Nothing" and yet it somehow, all exploded?

As to the Universe being perfectly organized; How can there be some huge explosion of matter that created the Universe, the empty space and time and Matter/Energy, At temperatures so hot that apparently 13? billion years later the Universe still has temperature within the well organized galaxies and cluster of galaxies and stars.

There should not exist any galaxies at all when your think about it. Any explosion is disorder, not order. The Universe should have cooled down into nothing but dead space afterwards and not perfectly organized clusters of stars and galaxies. Yet here we are. Who wrote the rules that govern the universe? Why should there be rules in the first place.

As to combining all of these threads into one thread, I disagree. Everyone has a right to at least one thread. To deny this to anyone is just plain wrong. I don't know who suggested that? But you're wrong! Who ever you are.

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

I think you might have broken character in your trolling there a few times Vice.

[JJM]

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Oh. I thought they were started by divine inspiration. So there's no gods involved in starting a religion then? Just people asking questions?

Example: Believing in a divine power is the answer to the question of why we exist, it is not the question.

[JJM]

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Science questions.... not "science questioned."

"Dad, why is the sky blue?"

"I dunno, gods or some shit.... yeah... that's it.... sky giants with blue farts, son!"

/religion

So you are saying the difference is present tense versus past tense?

[jonesthecurl]

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

What does this mean?
the space that the universe is in is not separate from the universe. It is the universe.
If that "space" had "come from" somewhere, that somewhere would have already been the universe.

Without the universe there is no "where".

Are you envisaging a volume with no universe in it, waiting to filled with universe? And if so, why?

I truly have no idea what you are asking here.

That is precisely the point. No where is what existed before there was a universe. "Nowhere" and "Nothing!" No dimensions of anything either space or time. Einstein demonstrated that, not me.

What we think is empty space is really not empty at all but filled with particles that transcend space and time and in turn make up empty space. So where did the fabric of the universe, the empty space, come from?

If there was "Nowhere" then where did the "Big Bang" happen? This is what Science is asking. How did it come to pass that at some point in the space time continuum, There was "Nowhere" and "Nothing" and yet it somehow, all exploded?

As to the Universe being perfectly organized; How can there be some huge explosion of matter that created the Universe, the empty space and time and Matter/Energy, At temperatures so hot that apparently 13? billion years later the Universe still has temperature within the well organized galaxies and cluster of galaxies and stars.

There should not exist any galaxies at all when your think about it. Any explosion is disorder, not order. The Universe should have cooled down into nothing but dead space afterwards and not perfectly organized clusters of stars and galaxies. Yet here we are. Who wrote the rules that govern the universe? Why should there be rules in the first place.

As to combining all of these threads into one thread, I disagree. Everyone has a right to at least one thread. To deny this to anyone is just plain wrong. I don't know who suggested that? But you're wrong! Who ever you are.

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

OK I've bolded some bits that are meaningless. Again, "before time" is a meaningless phrase, like "above the stars". We can say them, but they mean nothing.

Oh, and could you point out to me where Einstein demonstrated what you claim he demonstrated? I think you may have that wrong. Maybe you're better informed than I.

And deciding from your armchair that "there really should not exist any galaxies at all when you think about it" gets you nowhere and is horribly unscientific unless it leads somewhere other than "therefore God".

[chang50]

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

What does this mean?
the space that the universe is in is not separate from the universe. It is the universe.
If that "space" had "come from" somewhere, that somewhere would have already been the universe.

Without the universe there is no "where".

Are you envisaging a volume with no universe in it, waiting to filled with universe? And if so, why?

I truly have no idea what you are asking here.

That is precisely the point. No where is what existed before there was a universe. "Nowhere" and "Nothing!" No dimensions of anything either space or time. Einstein demonstrated that, not me.

What we think is empty space is really not empty at all but filled with particles that transcend space and time and in turn make up empty space. So where did the fabric of the universe, the empty space, come from?

If there was "Nowhere" then where did the "Big Bang" happen? This is what Science is asking. How did it come to pass that at some point in the space time continuum, There was "Nowhere" and "Nothing" and yet it somehow, all exploded?

As to the Universe being perfectly organized; How can there be some huge explosion of matter that created the Universe, the empty space and time and Matter/Energy, At temperatures so hot that apparently 13? billion years later the Universe still has temperature within the well organized galaxies and cluster of galaxies and stars.

There should not exist any galaxies at all when your think about it. Any explosion is disorder, not order. The Universe should have cooled down into nothing but dead space afterwards and not perfectly organized clusters of stars and galaxies. Yet here we are. Who wrote the rules that govern the universe? Why should there be rules in the first place.

As to combining all of these threads into one thread, I disagree. Everyone has a right to at least one thread. To deny this to anyone is just plain wrong. I don't know who suggested that? But you're wrong! Who ever you are.

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

So would I be correct in assuming you know who wrote the rules that govern the universe? I only ask because I haven't a clue how they came about and am quite honest and humble about this.Can I sugggest if that asssumption is correct,it is fatuous in the extreme?

[tzor]

I have never been to this forum before. I just happened to stumble on it and noticed a couple of threads concerning God, evolution etc. Here is a list of questions for someone who considers himself an atheist or agnostic. Faith in evolution is as much a "religion" as Judaism, Hinduism or any other system.

I'll start off by saying I'm not an atheist. Blue are my words, red are from other sources.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

You cannot isolate space from time. Where did space-time come from? I think that question literally jumps the shark as the question cannot be answered outside space-time. To quote Hawkings, the universe "is."


2. Where did matter come from?

Matter (in matter or in energy form) is a constant of the space-time universe. It doesn't really come from anything. It just is.

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

Logic.

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

It's not. In fact if it wasn't flawed from the first nano seconds, we would not be here today.

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

The energy in the universe is a constant; the smaller the universe, the more energy there is per cubic meter.

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

First of all, all life consists of dead matter. When enough of it interacts long enough the result is life. It's a marvel of organic chemistry.

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

I'm not sure that is the case. This may be a chicken and egg thing. I don't think the self replicating amino acids (RNA) were technically life.

So the question was when the RNA world developed into the DNA world and when the replicating acids started to wrap themselves in protective structures called cells.

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

Another cell. Sexual reproduction must be seen in light of asexual reproduction, which is the cell reproduces the same cell.

There are two main processes during sexual reproduction in eukaryotes: meiosis, involving the halving of the number of chromosomes; and fertilization, involving the fusion of two gametes and the restoration of the original number of chromosomes. During meiosis, the chromosomes of each pair usually cross over to achieve homologous recombination.

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

Well, that's a silly question (given that plants generate their own food). There is, literally nothing. Those that didn't go crazy about self replication died. So did those that did all that replication, but their replication lived on. It's the dirty secret of evolution; it's not always better but it's what keeps on going.

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

Well first of all Chinese books are not composed of English letters. Mutations can create something slightly better or something slightly worse; the later get weeded out and the former ones keep on going. One only needs to look at the history of music to see how mutations can make improved varieties. We went from Gregorian Chant to complex blues chords.

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

The notion that a God who has all the hairs on our head numbered is going to clone his work a billion times over just strikes me as ... well not God like.

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

I know this isn't intuitive, but complexity is the result of entropy. If you don't believe me, look at the modern tax code.

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?

a) At one point sticking around became a good idea. (That's why you don't see three celled intermediates; they started forming groups of ten or more.)

b) Actually the first form of life wasn't plant, it was anaerobic. Then came the point where life was generating a poison known as free oxygen. Those were the plants. You already have multiple celled creatures at this time.

c) Puddles have a tendency to dry up.

d) I think there are a couple of steps between the two.

e) Dinosaurs changed into birds. People used to think they were reptiles; they were not.



14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?

a) Whales are easy. Land animals went back to the sea. They adapted to the sea. A penguin is a bird, adapted to the sea. A whale is a mammal adapted to the sea.

b) Horizontally swimming fish living in seagrass beds don't blend into the environment well and are easily picked off by predators. A solution seems to have evolved in seahorse ancestors: the upright body shape, which enables seahorses to seamlessly blend in with surrounding seagrass.

c) Good question. Probably from Ricky the flying squirrel, or the equivalent back then. There are not a lot of fossils in this area.

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it? (Taken from "The Evidence Bible")

a) The food to be digested.
b) The ability to reproduce.
c) The mucus lining to allow living cells to exist outside of a water environment.
d) Current theory is RNA came first.
e) There is now strong evidence suggesting that termites are really highly modified, social, wood-eating cockroaches.
f) plants as there are a variety that do not need insects to polinate.
g) Muscles came first; several animals have muscles but no bones.
h) I'm going for hormone system for $500 Alex; chemical coordination is the easiest signaling system and DNA is basically a chemical switching system.
i) The innate immune system is well developed in the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster, a favorite model organism for many aspects of biological research, and in many other invertebrates, including the nematode worm, Caenorhabditis elegans. What these organisms share in common with the vertebrates are the genes that encode intracellular signaling pathways leading from the cell surface to the activation of the transcription factor NFκB (see Chapter 6). Each organism has a cassette of genes that encode the proteins of this pathway. That makes us believe that the activation of NFκB is the original and central signaling pathway of activation in innate immunity, leading in turn to the activation of a set of genes that depend on NFκB for their transcription. This pathway is a universal pathway that leads to activation in all host defense systems

[JJM]

BTW Jones, you always seem to be a neutralizer in these debates. What is your point of veiw. Just curious.

[Juan_Bottom]

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Science questions.... not "science questioned."

"Dad, why is the sky blue?"

"I dunno, gods or some shit.... yeah... that's it.... sky giants with blue farts, son!"

/religion

So you are saying the difference is present tense versus past tense?

No, it's that we continue to question, even the answers. You got your answer that a sky giant with blue farts made the sky, and you're satisfied by that. If my dad told me something that crazy/amazing I'd want to hear more details. I'd continue asking questions like:
Where did the sky giants come from?
Why are their farts blue?
How do you know this?
Where are they, can I see them?

[Juan_Bottom]

including the nematode worm

Props. ^5

[JJM]

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Science questions.... not "science questioned."

"Dad, why is the sky blue?"

"I dunno, gods or some shit.... yeah... that's it.... sky giants with blue farts, son!"

/religion

So you are saying the difference is present tense versus past tense?

No, it's that we continue to question, even the answers. You got your answer that a sky giant with blue farts made the sky, and you're satisfied by that. If my dad told me something that crazy/amazing I'd want to hear more details. I'd continue asking questions like:
Where did the sky giants come from?
Why are their farts blue?
How do you know this?
Where are they, can I see them?

Can you at least use real examples?

[Neoteny]

Hmph. Internet ate my answers to OP. f*ck it.

[Juan_Bottom]

"

Can you at least use real examples?

Where did your God come from?
How do you know that?
How do you know that your God is the right God or even the only God?

Etc.

[jonesthecurl]

BTW Jones, you always seem to be a neutralizer in these debates. What is your point of veiw. Just curious.

I still have the habits I learned when chairing meetings: if people are deliberately mishearing each other, I try to help them understand (not agree with) what the other person is saying.

I think my own views are clear enough. Atheist, left-wing, but not fanatical and genuinely interested in other points of view. I find folk and fairly tales fascinating, and also the various religious/spiritual approaches to the universe.

I've said this before, but maybe it's time to repeat it: I have studied the texts of, and discussedbeliefs with devotees of, many religions.(lots of different Christian sects, plus the arguably Christian Mormons and JW's. Moonies, Muslims, witches, pagans, Satanists, buddist, Hindu, spiritualist... not to mention the Egyptian Book of the Dead (and a ton of other stuff about the Egyptian mythos), and a huge variety of Celtic, Native American, African, and other myths) Many people are sincere, many are utterly certain, but their views are in direct opposition to each other. And ultimately the answer to "how do you know you're right and everyone else is wrong?" is always "Well, I just do.".

[premio53]

"

Can you at least use real examples?

Where did your God come from?
How do you know that?
How do you know that your God is the right God or even the only God?

Etc.

That's like saying I can't prove the president lives in the White House by looking into the White House. It is looking into the White House that will provide the necessary proof. The fulfilled prophecies, scientific statements and amazing preservation of scripture writings provide the evidence that the Bible is of supernatural origin. There is no other book known to man that fills that bill. In short there is only one God and that is the one found in Holy Writ.

[mviola]

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

I'm dying from laughter. Really.

[Juan_Bottom]

"

Can you at least use real examples?

Where did your God come from?
How do you know that?
How do you know that your God is the right God or even the only God?

Etc.

That's like saying I can't prove the president lives in the White House by looking into the White House. It is looking into the White House that will provide the necessary proof. The fulfilled prophecies, scientific statements and amazing preservation of scripture writings provide the evidence that the Bible is of supernatural origin. There is no other book known to man that fills that bill. In short there is only one God and that is the one found in Holy Writ.

Not so buddy! You can check and verify if the president lives in the White House. What you're describing is Philosophical Agnosticism, "we can never know anything for sure."

You have to ignore a stunning amount of inaccuracies, horrifying cruelties, and just general untruth to believe wholly in the Bible or Koran. That's why the only ones who do are those people who isolate themselves from education and experience, like the Amish. The Bible says that Bats are birds... and that all animals fit on a boat. Judges 19:22-30, a crowd shows up to rape a couple of daughters, but a priest offers up his female slave instead, and the crowd rapes her to death. With Yahweh's blessing!? In the morning the priest kicked the dead concubine to wake her... seeing she was dead he hacked her body to pieces and spread them over the kingdom... without a second though. If I were to see a crowd of men raping a woman to death I would stop them... is that the difference between me and God? This horrid, sexist, and slave-promoting story is shockingly similar to another where a crowd shows up to anally rape some angels.
In short, the Bible is the only book that fits your bill because you've isolated yourself from education and asking questions. Nobody knows where all matter and time has come from, but saying "we don't know" while searching for the answer is a lot more honest and good than claiming that "God did it all." That's not satisfying or honest.

[2dimes]

If I were to see a crowd of men raping a woman to death I would stop them... is that the difference between me and God?

Maybe, how would you stop them?

[Maugena]

Faith in evolution is as much a "religion" as judaism, Hinduism or any other system.

No.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
2. Where did matter come from?
3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

I don't think it came from anywhere. It's always been there.

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

It's perfectly organized? Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

See my answer to #1-3.

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

What is dead matter? I don't have the why... but the whens and wheres are constantly and everywhere. The how is biogenesis.

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

Learn to reproduce itself? I'm pretty sure life at the basic most stages are not even sentient... saying that they can learn isn't possible. But really, how do any chemicals form? Through natural processes. Throw enough elements into the pot and BAM!

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

Sexual? I don't know. Wouldn't know the first asexual one either. If you know either, let me know. To sate my curiosity - not being sarcastic.

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

Not everything is completely aware of its surroundings. That is a very complex system that the human race doesn't even really understand. (The environment and you!)

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_lo ... experiment Read for yourself.

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

Do you believe in a natural world/reality that is self-regulating? I do.
Fairy tales are nothing but nonsense.

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

As a guess? Mutation. If the mutation survives and reproduces, voila.

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?

Don't worry about it. You and I will die long before we find out.

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?

Identical question. Skipping.

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it? (Taken from "The Evidence Bible")

So with a lack of knowledge about how things came to be, we turn to something intangible created by man for all the answers? Perhaps that's ironic?

[Maugena]

Wow, started reading through some responses and noticed mine was pretty similar to Haggis's... Lol.

Science Questions

Religions got started by people asking Questions also.

Science questions.... not "science questioned."

"Dad, why is the sky blue?"

"I dunno, gods or some shit.... yeah... that's it.... sky giants with blue farts, son!"

/religion

ILY, JB

[crispybits]

JJM and premio, let me ask you something back. Bear with me because I have to paint a picture first to make the question meaningful.

Imagine that we find a group of beings who have never learned to ask any questions. Their standard of something being knowledge is simply that someone else has showed it working to them. They never ask why it works or how it works, they just know it works, and they record every instance of it working in a massive book so any of them can refer back to it and see everything that has ever worked all of the time, some of the time, and never, and then decide what to do next.

Now humans come along and meet them, and we introduce questions to them. We teach them to ask how and why and to try to perceive the greater patterns behind everything. We also present them with all of the different theories of reality we have, from the religious and the scientific, including the crackpot theories that come from either or neither.

All these other beings are interested in is "does it work". They have no use for anything that doesn't work, it's irrelevant to them. They start recording the theories of "how" and "why" alongside the pure fact of if it works or not within their book.

For the how, working from the very simple science "this apple fell on my head, just like everything else (heavier than air) falls towards the ground when left alone and not blown by the wind or whatever" they can build a picture of the laws of the universe that is entirely consistent. It might not be 100% correct as there may be things we still do not fully understand (like biogenesis or what happened in the first few milliseconds of the big bang), but for all general intents and purposes it all fits together and provides a reliable framework for predicting what will happen if they either manufacture or find a situation with certain initial conditions (If I lift this stone and drop it it will fall to earth / If that animal runs over that cliff it will fall to earth / etc). In their big book they write down these answers and find them to be almost 100% reliable and consistent (allowing for errors in measurement or reasoning)

For the why, science does not even attempt to provide the answers. Why does that stone fall to earth (as in what is the purpose of the how working the way it does rather than in any other way)? We don't know, maybe "it just does", but that isn't a meaningful answer. Using science we never, ever even attempt to answer the why questions. Many people have beliefs based on science as to the why questions, but that doesnt make these beliefs scientific, because science never asks why, only how.

Now for the flipside

For the how, many religious people answer with a lot of the same answers as the scientific people. This is because they believe that God allowed us reason to perceive and understand his creation, and we have to trust that as being reliable. Some religious people don't give the same answers as the scientists to some of the questions, and when they do their alternative is almost invariably "because God did it" or something with a very similar basic meaning. But these answers, saying that God intervened and made something happen, don't explain in a meaningful way how to predict the future, because it seems that among the religious people, there are different bits that "God did", and sometimes he will do something and sometimes he will do the opposite. In their book they write these down and find them to be unreliable and inconsistent, and they offer no predictive power about what will happen in a certain situation based on the measurable variables. God may answer your prayer by stopping that stone falling on your head, but he may not answer a prayer from someone else and the stone would fall on his head.

Then we get to the why, and the religious are packed full of answers about God and his nature and all the things he has done to prove all this to us and that we should love him and fear him and bow down and worship him. But even in these there are huge inconsistencies, different religious people give vastly different answers to the same questions, and none of these answers grants any extra verifiable predictive power about what will happen next in any case. For the purposes of all that stuff written down in the book, these answers hold the same amount of usefulness to understanding as "we don't know, maybe it just is". They don't add anything extra.

So now we ask the question to these beings, as a test to see if they have understood the concepts of how and why properly. And this is the question I would like you to answer now:

How do we know why anything happens?

[Viceroy63]

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

I'm dying from laughter. Really.

I'm sure you are. Just as I am laughing at the fact that you can't answer any of the questions posted yet have so much faith in your "Scientific Theories of life and evolution???"

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...


And while we are at it, let me as a question? Suppose there was an ancient book that foretold all of earth's history in advance before any of it can to pass. Suppose that this was like a history book only of the future where everything came to pass precisely as foretold in the book. And suppose that some one had calculated the odds of that happening at that level of precision at IMPOSSIBLE! And Yet it all came to pass and still is. Suppose that this book foretold of the rise of ignorance that people would have at revealed knowledge from a source that they could find no where else including science.

What would be the odds that the book was perhaps itself guided into creation by an intelligent Creator who had that book created for the benefit of man in the first place? What would be the Odds?

No religious book from the Quran to Darwin's "Origin of Species" spells it out so clearly like the Holy Bible does.

[AAFitz]

I have never been to this forum before. I just happened to stumble on it and noticed a couple of threads concerning God, evolution etc. Here is a list of questions for someone who considers himself an athiest or agnostic.

Faith in evolution is as much a "religion" as judaism, Hinduism or any other system.

No it isnt. It is based on scientific evidence. The others are based on nothing. Also, it is the level of belief of the believer, that would make it a religion. In other words, if you believe it based on no thinking, no evidence and completely and unwaveringly, that might make it a religion for you, but for scientists, its not a religion at all.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

No Idea, will keep studying, but have no need to make something up to explain it.

2. Where did matter come from?

Probably large concentrations of energy, will keep studying, but have no need to make something up to explain it further.

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

Could be fundamental with the existence of energy and matter, will keep studying, but have no need to make something up to explain it further.

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

Not sure matter is perfectly organized, but will keep studying, but have no need to make something up to explain it further.

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

see answer 1

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

Billions of years ago, Possibly on earth or a similar planet, because it could, because the conditions were such that it had to.

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

Billions of years ago, probably earth or a similar planet, because it could, because it could.

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

Impossible to know.

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

Want has nothing to do with it and did not exist when the process began.

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

Over time, with billions of small changes. Stupid analogy, but breaking apart English letters and combining them would allow you to create all books in all languages.

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

Absolutely not. It is possible that there is a common Creator however, but using that as proof would mean not understanding the basic meaning of the word proof.

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

Your first premise is wrong. Increasing complexity happens every second, every minute and every day even now. There are millions of factors that contribute to increasing complexity, and over billions of years, those factors create a number too massive to even compute, allowing for quite a few possibilities, and more to come.

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?

The answer to this, is the entire study and the entire body of work of every evolutionary scientist that ever lived. I would suggest you get started reading, because you more than most, have quite a bit to learn on the subject.

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?

Again, just the subject of the human eye evolving would require an entire book or more, to fully understand a process which has been in the making over millions of years. The info is out there, and is quite compelling though. Again, get reading. You are way behind the curve.

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it? (Taken from "The Evidence Bible")

Again, these questions are being studied right now. Some are more understood than others. I highly suggest you get started reading them.

I do hope overall however, that you do not somehow believe that if the average person cannot simply answer these questions off the top of their head, it somehow means that the theory is somehow not accurate. In fact, if you read the insane amount of information explaining them, you will realize why so many actually realize why evolution is almost certainly true, as all evidence leads to that fact.

It is complicated and beyond tedious though, much as understanding the underlying principles of our physical world are.

In fact, humans have had limited knowledge of that world, for thousands of years, but have evolved their knowledge of it to the point where one might even be tempted to say that one who still believes in a 6000 year old, copied text, is of another species than those who have taken the time to educate themselves as to how reality really works.

It is again difficult, complex, and still an ongoing process, so given our knowledge of the human psychology, its no wonder some opt out of the learning process, give up learning, and just stick to a belief with no actual reason for being. Humans have been doing that for thousands of years, and some of the beliefs are quite funny really.

[AAFitz]

And Premio; I applaud you for your acute scientific mind. Great post. I'll be sure to come here often.

I'm dying from laughter. Really.

I'm sure you are. Just as I am laughing at the fact that you can't answer any of the questions posted yet have so much faith in your "Scientific Theories of life and evolution???"

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...


And while we are at it, let me as a question? Suppose there was an ancient book that foretold all of earth's history in advance before any of it can to pass. Suppose that this was like a history book only of the future where everything came to pass precisely as foretold in the book. And suppose that some one had calculated the odds of that happening at that level of precision at IMPOSSIBLE! And Yet it all came to pass and still is. Suppose that this book foretold of the rise of ignorance that people would have at revealed knowledge from a source that they could find no where else including science.

What would be the odds that the book was perhaps itself guided into creation by an intelligent Creator who had that book created for the benefit of man in the first place? What would be the Odds?

No religious book from the Quran to Darwin's "Origin of Species" spells it out so clearly like the Holy Bible does.

Now, what if throughout history, humans developed superstitious belief systems to explain things they did not understand. What if in different areas, those belief systems were completely different than others. What if, the history of one of the main religions, was literally copied from stories originating from before it. What if, it was translated many times by corrupt men, in the interest of power. What if, entire wars were fought over the belief in one made up religion over another. Now imagine how silly a world of humans all believing in different versions of supernatural and killing each other over it would seem to an outsider, who took the time to study the actual science of it all.

Now that, would be someone who was laughing.