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_sabotage_ wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0
This is the official reason Bush ignored the 6 warnings of an imminent attack.
But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservativesā suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day.
President Bush was told more than a month before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, that supporters of Osama bin Laden planned an attack within the United States with explosives and wanted to hijack airplanes, a government official said Friday.
the administrationās reaction to what Mr. Bush was told in the weeks before that infamous briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed.
By May 1, the Central Intelligence Agency told the White House of a report that āa group presently in the United Statesā was planning a terrorist operation.
That is, unless it was read in conjunction with the daily briefs preceding Aug. 6, the ones the Bush administration would not release. While those documents are still not public, I have read excerpts from many of them, along with other recently declassified records, and come to an inescapable conclusion: "Bush administration acted negligently."
And the C.I.A. repeated the warnings in the briefs that followed. Operatives connected to Bin Laden, one reported on June 29, expected the planned near-term attacks to have ādramatic consequences,ā including major casualties. On July 1, the brief stated that the operation had been delayed, but āwill occur soon.ā
Could the 9/11 attack have been stopped, had the Bush team reacted with urgency to the warnings contained in all of those daily briefs? We canāt ever know. And that may be the most agonizing reality of all.
The DoD provided them with the alternate theory. The DoD also happened to change plane interception protocol after Bush was warned of imminent terrorist attacks using planes. While the warnings were coming in June, Rumsfeld changed the protocol on July 1, 2001 and changed it back on September 12, 2001.
So in the last 40 years, there have been 83 days where intercepting a plane went from automatic, to only with the authorization of Rumsfeld. The changed policy was put in after warnings of a pending attack by plane and removed the day after the attack.
_sabotage_ wrote:Why should I feed you the evidence piece by piece when there are so many well reputed sources cited by the video or some of the books mentioned?
Watch the movie.
BigBallinStalin wrote:_sabotage_ wrote:Why should I feed you the evidence piece by piece when there are so many well reputed sources cited by the video or some of the books mentioned?
Watch the movie.
Ah, so in other words, you have no idea.
There's two problems with documentaries.
(1) Unable to verify their claims.
(2) Confirmation bias/selective perception. These are triggered when watching a documentary and cannot be controlled for because of #1.
Why does #1 matter? (An issue which you ignore)
Documentaries are effective at appealing to your emotion while easily omitting relevant information. That's just how they are. It's much more difficult to bullshit someone with a book--because one must use citations.
That's why I don't take documentaries seriously. It's very easy to distort the facts with them.
Due to these problems, documentaries are unreliable--for providing hard-hitting, actual evidence. They're slightly worse than news articles, but it depends on the context. As far as speculation goes, documentaries are the worst.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Right, dude. I ask for a citation, and get nothing but a long-ass youtube video.
I'm surprised you haven't been consistent with your stance by arguing in favor of PhatScotty whenever he posts a Glenn Beck or >20 minute youtube video... Talk about bias, lol!
_sabotage_ wrote:So basically you have just justified why I shouldn't read the book you recommended.
If I need to take you through a series of impossible acts and deal with you saying how they are all possible one by one, this is going to be a long thread. So let's just stick with the Pentagon.
I have provided you with the stand down order on intercepting planes, I have provided you with sources to analyze it if you are too lazy to read it yourself. You have chosen to ignore it.
You have chosen to ignore that the missile batteries of both the White House and Pentagon inexplicably failed. How about the fact that a Boeing 757 was making military like maneuvers with an amateur at the controls, disappeared into a 5m hole that had 86 cameras on it, only one of which shows anything and what is shown is not a plane.
"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," O'Brien said.
From that pilots instructor:
"His English was horrible, and his mechanical skills were even worse. It was like he had hardly even ever driven a car. I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon. He could not fly at all."
Besides the fact that it is physically impossible to fly a so fast so low to the ground. In an affidavit, John Lear, a pilot holding world records and who happens to be the son of the inventor of LearJet, goes over this aspect in better detail if you are interested.
_sabotage_ wrote:If you are unwilling to watch the evidence as documented and presented by a survivor, a decorated hero of the event, a department of defense reporter, an international reporter, professors, scientists, a Nobel prize winner, pilots, air traffic controllers, writers, jet pilots, etc presented with evidence on display, but would rather hear it from me point by written point where you are going to try to find fault with each point such as the fact that the NY Times has only provided a single report and not connected it with any others which make up the larger story and then not pay attention to the larger story because it is conveniently placed on the page for ease of watching, ie it's a youtube link, then this is going to be a long thread.
BBS wrote:_sabotage_ wrote:
This is confirmed here:
emperors-clothes.com/9-11backups/3610_01a.pdf
to get a copy of the directive.
Or you can read about it here:
Mounting Evidence: Why We Need a New Investigation Into 9/11
By Paul W Rea Phd, Paul W. Rea
Or you can watch the video I posted above and hear pilots, flight controllers and military personnel discuss the significance.
How about a proper citation? With page numbers, or perhaps a chapter?
BigBallinStalin wrote:Some wily ninjas cannot be caught.
political leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky that the meteor was in fact a secret US weapon aimed at Russia.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Here's another problem with conspiracy theorists. I can take the time to address the problems of one of their sources: for example, here, but nearly all of the criticism gets ignored, and another smoke screen is excreted. It's the same pattern through this page and throughout this thread.
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