Accidental Strawmen

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.
Post Reply
User avatar
BigBallinStalin
Posts: 5071
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Contact:

Accidental Strawmen

Post by BigBallinStalin »

The following example is a conversation between NS and Symmetry where Symmetry accidentally creates a straw man from NS' position. This isn't a thread about our dear ConquerClubber's, Sym and NS, but rather an investigation into our ability to create accidental strawman fallacies.

Symmetry wrote:
Night Strike wrote: And when the employer can't afford to pay a cart pusher $20 an hour, they remove the position and everyone has to go get their own carts or other workers have to do it in addition to their roles. And this causes even fewer people to be employed. Employers aren't just made of money and can dole out whatever the government decides to dictate at that period of time.

Minimum wage jobs are for people, especially young people, to earn some spending cash and gain workforce experience for moving up to a career later in life. Continually raising the minimum wage simply provides fewer of those opportunities, which actually will keep prices down over an employee's working life as they weren't able to start out at the lowest of levels at a young enough time. If you want wages to go up, you allow employers to pay young people rock-bottom wages as those jobs aren't designed to be lived on anyway.
Hilarious- what skills do you think they're picking up? Why do you think only young people are in these positions?
Note Sym's "Hilarious" and his second question, the straw man.

Two Questions:

Did Symmetry carefully read NS' post?

Or did he catch a few phrases which made him emotionally react--negatively, thus immediately rejecting NS' position, which does not sync with Symmetry's own preconceived, or rather strongly held, notions?


Conclusion/ tl;dr
It seems that many people inadvertently tend to create straw man fallacies from the disagreeable positions of others--especially when strong emotions or deeply held beliefs are being countered. We probably all do this--at varying frequencies in regard to different subjects, but we should be aware of this possibility.
User avatar
Symmetry
Posts: 9247
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by Symmetry »

Cute.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
/
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:41 am

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by / »

If people become aware of these so called "fallacies", they will feel the need to point them out, this will undoubtedly result in arguments.
BBS, why do you want people to fight?
User avatar
crispybits
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by crispybits »

What you call a "fight" I would say is part of a healthy and spirited debate. If we can't call each other out for logical fallacies or just plain incorrect statements, then there can be no discussion at all when people hold differing viewpoints. If our objective is just to happily agree on everyting then this forum and many, many others becomes a very boring place indeed.
User avatar
BigBallinStalin
Posts: 5071
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by BigBallinStalin »

/ wrote:If people become aware of these so called "fallacies", they will feel the need to point them out, this will undoubtedly result in arguments.
BBS, why do you want people to fight?
Let's assume your Serious Business.

The underlined is not the only outcome, and people can learn the proper art of argument over time--as crispybits mentions. From conflict comes better coordination.

I'm just wondering if people realize how emotionally susceptible they are to creating strawman fallacies.
strike wolf
Posts: 8345
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:03 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Sandy Springs, GA (just north of Atlanta)

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by strike wolf »

/ wrote:If people become aware of these so called "fallacies", they will feel the need to point them out, this will undoubtedly result in arguments.
BBS, why do you want people to fight?
petitio principii ;)
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
User avatar
Dukasaur
Community Team
Community Team
Posts: 28287
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by Dukasaur »

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
-- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love" (Robert Heinlein)
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
_sabotage_
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Gender: Male

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by _sabotage_ »

If you would like to see examples of BBS using the same tactics he describes here, please see the 2/3 believe in conspiracy theories threads.
User avatar
jonesthecurl
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Gender: Male
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by jonesthecurl »

/ wrote:If people become aware of these so called "fallacies", they will feel the need to point them out, this will undoubtedly result in arguments.
BBS, why do you want people to fight?
What's that? You want a fight?
instagram.com/garethjohnjoneswrites
User avatar
AndyDufresne
Posts: 24919
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by AndyDufresne »

_sabotage_ wrote:If you would like to see examples of BBS using the same tactics he describes here, please see the 2/3 believe in conspiracy theories threads.
Things don't exist outside of this topic. It is all an illusion. This is all that exists in the world.


--Andy
User avatar
crispybits
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by crispybits »

AndyDufresne wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:If you would like to see examples of BBS using the same tactics he describes here, please see the 2/3 believe in conspiracy theories threads.
Things don't exist outside of this topic. It is all an illusion. This is all that exists in the world.


--Andy
But but but - I see no bananas in this topic.... :shock:
User avatar
2dimes
Posts: 13169
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Pepperoni Hug Spot.

Post by 2dimes »

There is no banana.
User avatar
Dukasaur
Community Team
Community Team
Posts: 28287
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by Dukasaur »

crispybits wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:If you would like to see examples of BBS using the same tactics he describes here, please see the 2/3 believe in conspiracy theories threads.
Things don't exist outside of this topic. It is all an illusion. This is all that exists in the world.


--Andy
But but but - I see no bananas in this topic.... :shock:
2dimes wrote:There is no banana.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
User avatar
KoolBak
Posts: 7413
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:03 pm
Gender: Male
Location: The beautiful Pacific Northwest

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by KoolBak »

Image
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
User avatar
AndyDufresne
Posts: 24919
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by AndyDufresne »

crispybits wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:If you would like to see examples of BBS using the same tactics he describes here, please see the 2/3 believe in conspiracy theories threads.
Things don't exist outside of this topic. It is all an illusion. This is all that exists in the world.


--Andy
But but but - I see no bananas in this topic.... :shock:
2dimes wrote:There is no banana.
Correct, bananas exist within each one of us.

Image


--Andy
User avatar
crispybits
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by crispybits »

Lies! god made them!

User avatar
BigBallinStalin
Posts: 5071
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Excellent, Gentlemen. Keep up the Hi-Quality work!
tzor
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by tzor »

Dukasaur wrote:
One of my most favorite songs ... because they mention the almost extinct "Long Island Potato."

(The near extinction of the Long Island Potato occurred when some chap in Idaho came up with a packaging method that allowed you to see the potatoes. While the great potatoes of the Hampton's were great tasting, they didn't have the looks of an Idaho potato. Potato farms declined in the 20th century. Fortunately, there a few left ... and we now make vodka from them!)
Image
User avatar
Neoteny
Posts: 3396
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by Neoteny »

Fascinating. And I'm not being a dick. I now want a Long Island potato and its associated vodka.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
tzor
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by tzor »

I should preface this by pointing out that I just had a nice meal of fresh Chorizo, yellow rice, and plantains, the bigger brother of the banana.

So what is a banana? It is many things. It is the principle ingredient for the Yonannas frozen fun device. But I like to think of it as a cold vegetarian hot dog. Put it on a hot dog bun with a little mayonnaise and a few spices (garam marsala is nice) and it's great!
Image
User avatar
jonesthecurl
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Gender: Male
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by jonesthecurl »

Me too. You can bring them when you come to see As You Like It on May 12th... you know you want to bring a birthday present.
instagram.com/garethjohnjoneswrites
tzor
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by tzor »

Neoteny wrote:Fascinating. And I'm not being a dick. I now want a Long Island potato and its associated vodka.
Go HERE
Image
User avatar
BigBallinStalin
Posts: 5071
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Contact:

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Exhibit #2
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 9#p4070037
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:The risk of Chinese spies, yo. [and] You're married to a 17 month old?
Obviously BBS was suggesting your wife was the terrorist in the situation, and to some degree he is right, because it wouldn't be the first time unfortunately, but he is also insanely hypocritical on this because its an example of Government probably going too far, which he usually is against, but instead abandons that because of a personal bias against you. There will be an arrogant answer about how he was right on this occasion as he is right in every instance that he ever posts, which is unfortunate, because it makes every post suspect of bias.


Image
User avatar
Funkyterrance
Posts: 2492
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Gender: Male
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Accidental Strawmen

Post by Funkyterrance »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
/ wrote:If people become aware of these so called "fallacies", they will feel the need to point them out, this will undoubtedly result in arguments.
BBS, why do you want people to fight?
Let's assume your Serious Business.

The underlined is not the only outcome, and people can learn the proper art of argument over time--as crispybits mentions. From conflict comes better coordination.

I'm just wondering if people realize how emotionally susceptible they are to creating strawman fallacies.
I've probably done this. I feel like when I do get this mindset it's because I feel more passionately about the new argument I've developed than the one currently on the table, not because I feel like I'm losing the argument or whatever. In other words, I've moved on. Selfish I know but I don't think I do it consciously.
Image
Post Reply

Return to “Acceptable Content”