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Response from a Nobel laureate

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Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby patches70 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:57 am

As most of you are probably aware, an apparent chemical attack happened in Syria last week killing some 200+ people, many of them children. The rebels claim it was the Assad government who carried out the attack. The Assad government denies any such attack was carried out by them.

Three days before the attack, a group of UN inspectors had just arrived. This brings into question the timing of the attack if the Assad regime was responsible, it seems rather stupid to launch such an attack. This was the initial assessment of the senior inspector of the team.

Before even any investigation was begun at all, the US declared that it was the Assad government who carried out the attack. How they determined this is unknown. If we recall, there was a chemical attack earlier in Syria in which the US declared the Assad regime committed and after an actual investigation into the incident it was determined that it was rebel fighters who used the gas-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 04920.html

This is important to remember for what's next.

After this most recent incident, the US demanded that Syria open up to full inspections to avoid the US response (bombing). Syria has now complied-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Europenews

The Assad government has given the immediate access to the site of the attack and allowing a full, independent investigation of what happened and who launched said attack.

The US' response to Syria now that Syria has complied with the US' demands?

Richard Engel twitter feed wrote:Sr US official: At this juncture, any belated decision by the regime to grant access to UN team would be too late to be credible


So, the Administration headed by the Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama, said it's too late for peace. It seems Syria has called the Administration's bluff and an actual investigation into the incident is the last thing the Administration wants, because it may come out that it was the rebels who launched the attack in order to draw the US into actual fighting against the Assad regime instead of simply supplying arms and training to the rebels.

Why make the condition of inspections to avoid further escalation if we were just going to say "That's not enough" if they did comply?
Why have we "drawn a line in the sand" against Assad, but when the rebels cross that line themselves we turn a blind eye?
100,000's of people have already been killed in the Syrian civil war, what does it matter if they were gassed to death as opposed to being bombed, shot, executed on the side of the road, or killed in some other fashion as has been perpetrated by both sides in the conflict?
Why is Syria so important at this particular time when the US fiscal year is about to come to an end, the debt limit has been reached and US deficit spending is dropping?
What does US deficit spending have to do with it? Central Banks rely on the need of nations to stay in debt and keep adding debt. A war in Syria means more borrowed money for the defense industry as a very troubling trend has been happening lately as illustrated by this chart-
Image

Have we been fully appraised of the possible consequences of our direct involvement (read:bombing/invasion)in Syria?

Why does it seem that we must invade to confirm WMD's in Syria?

And finally, here is our Nobel laureate standing proudly with his prize when all evidence points to his continued involvement and expansion of the military industrial complex that relies on war, death, chaos and fear to keep the debt building, the money flowing and the bodies piling-

Image


and once again we are being propelled into a conflict using the same lies that worked so well for launching the Iraq war and brought such blessings as democracy and death to the Iraqi people. Same story, different place.
Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on we.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby rishaed on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:45 am

Him being awarded the Peace Prize was absolutely a very foolish decision. As it were it was off of promises and race, and not because he actually deserved it. So the Peace Prize doesn't really say much about him.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby rishaed on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:46 am

And no we should not go into Syria.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:42 pm

patches70 wrote:
After this most recent incident, the US demanded that Syria open up to full inspections to avoid the US response (bombing). Syria has now complied-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Europenews

The Assad government has given the immediate access to the site of the attack and allowing a full, independent investigation of what happened and who launched said attack.

The US' response to Syria now that Syria has complied with the US' demands?

Richard Engel twitter feed wrote:Sr US official: At this juncture, any belated decision by the regime to grant access to UN team would be too late to be credible

\


lol, that's a weak excuse.

Too late for what though? For testing?

Does anyone understand why it would be "too late to be credible"? Or is that spokesperson bullshitting?
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:54 pm

patches70 wrote:As most of you are probably aware, an apparent chemical attack happened in Syria last week killing some 200+ people, many of them children. The rebels claim it was the Assad government who carried out the attack. The Assad government denies any such attack was carried out by them.

Three days before the attack, a group of UN inspectors had just arrived. This brings into question the timing of the attack if the Assad regime was responsible, it seems rather stupid to launch such an attack. This was the initial assessment of the senior inspector of the team.

Before even any investigation was begun at all, the US declared that it was the Assad government who carried out the attack. How they determined this is unknown. If we recall, there was a chemical attack earlier in Syria in which the US declared the Assad regime committed and after an actual investigation into the incident it was determined that it was rebel fighters who used the gas-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 04920.html

This is important to remember for what's next.

After this most recent incident, the US demanded that Syria open up to full inspections to avoid the US response (bombing). Syria has now complied-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Europenews

The Assad government has given the immediate access to the site of the attack and allowing a full, independent investigation of what happened and who launched said attack.

The US' response to Syria now that Syria has complied with the US' demands?

Richard Engel twitter feed wrote:Sr US official: At this juncture, any belated decision by the regime to grant access to UN team would be too late to be credible


So, the Administration headed by the Nobel Peace Prize laureate Obama, said it's too late for peace. It seems Syria has called the Administration's bluff and an actual investigation into the incident is the last thing the Administration wants, because it may come out that it was the rebels who launched the attack in order to draw the US into actual fighting against the Assad regime instead of simply supplying arms and training to the rebels.

Why make the condition of inspections to avoid further escalation if we were just going to say "That's not enough" if they did comply?
Why have we "drawn a line in the sand" against Assad, but when the rebels cross that line themselves we turn a blind eye?
100,000's of people have already been killed in the Syrian civil war, what does it matter if they were gassed to death as opposed to being bombed, shot, executed on the side of the road, or killed in some other fashion as has been perpetrated by both sides in the conflict?
Why is Syria so important at this particular time when the US fiscal year is about to come to an end, the debt limit has been reached and US deficit spending is dropping?
What does US deficit spending have to do with it? Central Banks rely on the need of nations to stay in debt and keep adding debt. A war in Syria means more borrowed money for the defense industry as a very troubling trend has been happening lately as illustrated by this chart-
Image

Have we been fully appraised of the possible consequences of our direct involvement (read:bombing/invasion)in Syria?

Why does it seem that we must invade to confirm WMD's in Syria?

And finally, here is our Nobel laureate standing proudly with his prize when all evidence points to his continued involvement and expansion of the military industrial complex that relies on war, death, chaos and fear to keep the debt building, the money flowing and the bodies piling-

Image


and once again we are being propelled into a conflict using the same lies that worked so well for launching the Iraq war and brought such blessings as democracy and death to the Iraqi people. Same story, different place.
Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on we.


Meanwhile, Obama's buddies being as classy as ever ...

Israel has been forced to issue a formal apology to Japan over offensive comments posted on Facebook by its head of online public diplomacy.

The apology followed a complaint by the Japanese ambassador to Israel, Hideo Sato, after senior government official Daniel Seaman disparaged commemorations for the victims of the 1945 atomic bombs, causing a wave of protests in Japan.

"I am sick of the Japanese, 'Human Rights' and 'Peace' groups the world over holding their annual self-righteous commemorations for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki victims," Seaman wrote on his Facebook page.

In response to a Church of Scotland report that argued that Jews do not have a divine right to the land, Seaman wrote: "Why do they think we give a flying f*ck what you have to say?"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... k-comments
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Frigidus on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:15 pm

At this point I honestly don't give a shit who did what to who. It is none of our fucking business. The 200+ people that were affected by this one attack would be immediately eclipsed by the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands that would be killed if we were to invade. Let somebody else deal with this one, we've poured enough money into the one foot out of the dark ages shithole that is the Middle East.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:48 pm

1 week in Syria: 200 dead
Obama Response:

Image

1 week in Egypt: 1,000 dead
Obama Response:

Image
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:33 pm

Pretty simple if you use the Middle East Phat-meter.

Syria is at peace with Israel, therefore Obama administration opposes them. Anyone who is at relative peace with Israel will be opposed by the Obama administration. Anyone who wants war with Israel gets cash and weapons.

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:20 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Syria is at peace with Israel


lolwut

Syria has no diplomatic relations with Israel. President Assad's major ally is Hezbollah, which is staging active actions against Israel. Israel continues to occupy Syria's Golan Heights and Syrian and Zionist troops have been exchanging shots off and on for the last year. Syria and Israel have no diplomatic relations and Syria bombed President Assad's house not that long ago. Syria and Israel have fought three wars.

Phatscotty wrote:therefore Obama administration opposes them.




Phatscotty wrote: Anyone who is at relative peace with Israel will be opposed by the Obama administration. Anyone who wants war with Israel gets cash and weapons.


The Obama-backed military dictator of Egypt has been declared "a national hero for all Jews" by the Israeli ambassador in Cairo.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:37 pm

I expect all of that though. John Mccain speaks for the military complex, always has. He is a whacko-bird to me and a neo-con. I'm also aware the Generals are liked by Israel, the Egyptian military has also known relative peace with Israel under Mubarak.

Syrian and Israel have known "relative" peace. Yes there are skirmishes such as you listed amongst others, but Assad would most likely not attack/invade Israel.

I understand how complicated it is, but I think they have relative peace.

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:40 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I expect all of that though. John Mccain speaks for Obama, always has. He is a whacko-bird to me and a neo-con.


So McCain also hates Israel? Romney has said the same things as McCain - he hates Israel, too?

Phatscotty wrote:I'm also aware the Generals are liked by Israel


The generals Obama is backing?
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:40 pm

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:52 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I expect all of that though. John Mccain speaks for Obama, always has. He is a whacko-bird to me and a neo-con.


So McCain also hates Israel? Romney has said the same things as McCain - he hates Israel, too?

Phatscotty wrote:I'm also aware the Generals are liked by Israel


The generals Obama is backing?


I think Obama would prefer backing Morsi. I think he is only backing the military at the moment to maintain influence.

I don't think Mccain hates Israel, but I think he wants the military to grow and supports whatever the Generals want to do for whatever reasons. Anyone who wants to get elected has to say they support Israel. I think Mccain has all kinds of pro-military assets in mind he would like to place in a lot of different countries.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:20 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I expect all of that though. John Mccain speaks for Obama, always has. He is a whacko-bird to me and a neo-con.


So McCain also hates Israel? Romney has said the same things as McCain - he hates Israel, too?

Phatscotty wrote:I'm also aware the Generals are liked by Israel


The generals Obama is backing?


I think Obama would prefer backing Morsi.


In last year's conspiracy theory, Obama was supposed to love the Muslim Brotherhood as part of the secret hatred he was harboring for Israel. Then Obama came out supporting the generals who deposed the Brotherhood. So, now, Obama is secretly supporting the Brotherhood by publicly supporting the generals by secretly supporting the Brotherhood. WHEW! (Fortunately, most of the subscribers to this conspiracy theory have already forgot the original version so can be sold the revised version without blinking.)

The Israeli tactic is to get both sides supporting Israel so that, whomever is in power, the gravy train keeps running. That's why their Hasbara serpents - and their mice in the American media - disseminate this nonsense that keeps having to be glued together with new bits of "secret information" to keep from collapsing in on itself from the sheer weight of contradictions upon contradictions piled up. If the right think of Obama as the crazed, lunatic supporter of Israel he is it could cause them to question their own support of Israel which puts the gravy train at risk of derailment. Everyone benefits - Obama, Israel, the Right, even the fat coke-addicted pedophile king of Saudi Arabia - if people think Obama is an ideologically motivated leftist instead of a cut-from-the-mold money-motivated globalist.

Chas Freeman, U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia under George H.W. Bush wrote:The “Hasbara Handbook” explains many standard techniques of propaganda and deceptive rhetoric. It rehearses specific arguments and counter-arguments and outlines a program of training for advocacy and rebuttal. It also stresses the importance of labeling or “name-calling” – the linking of a person or idea to a negative symbol. In addition, many American rabbis see it as their duty to rally their congregations to Israel’s defense.

http://www.mepc.org/articles-commentary ... t-strategy
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:44 pm

For whatever reasons, I'm sure we feel the same about defunding Egypt's military?


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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:45 pm

The Conservative Party in Britain ...

... said on Sunday that evidence of a chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus could have already been destroyed ahead of a visit to the site by U.N. inspectors.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... me=topNews


It looks like the new U.S. Viceroy in London is earning his $ ...

Britain's governing Conservative Party has hired U.S. President Barack Obama's former campaign manager as part of its election team ahead of polls due in less than two years, the party said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... 8E20130802
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:52 pm

Phatscotty wrote:For whatever reasons, I'm sure we feel the same about defunding Egypt's military?


I agree that the pro-Israel Egyptian military should stop receiving U.S. funding. Since the funding was put in place during Camp David to buy Egypt's establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel and demilitarization of the Sinai, the termination of funding would mean Egypt would be free to immediately resume war preparations against Israel. For that reason, neither Obama this year - nor Christie in 2016 - will be allowed by their Israeli masters to discontinue the funding to Egypt. Every day Obama continues funding the Egyptian army shows how tight the leash Tel Aviv has him on is.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:22 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:For whatever reasons, I'm sure we feel the same about defunding Egypt's military?


I agree that the pro-Israel Egyptian military should stop receiving U.S. funding. Since the funding was put in place during Camp David to buy Egypt's establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel and demilitarization of the Sinai, the termination of funding would mean Egypt would be free to immediately resume war preparations against Israel. For that reason, neither Obama this year - nor Christie in 2016 - will be allowed by their Israeli masters to discontinue the funding to Egypt. Every day Obama continues funding the Egyptian army shows how tight the leash Tel Aviv has him on is.


What's your reasoning for the claim that Israel exerts so much unilateral influence over US foreign policy?

Or is the "leash" metaphor part of your rhetoric?
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:56 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:For whatever reasons, I'm sure we feel the same about defunding Egypt's military?


I agree that the pro-Israel Egyptian military should stop receiving U.S. funding. Since the funding was put in place during Camp David to buy Egypt's establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel and demilitarization of the Sinai, the termination of funding would mean Egypt would be free to immediately resume war preparations against Israel. For that reason, neither Obama this year - nor Christie in 2016 - will be allowed by their Israeli masters to discontinue the funding to Egypt. Every day Obama continues funding the Egyptian army shows how tight the leash Tel Aviv has him on is.


What's your reasoning for the claim that Israel exerts so much unilateral influence over US foreign policy?

Or is the "leash" metaphor part of your rhetoric?


U.S. foreign policy is formulated according to the rationalist theory of IR which dictates nations only act in their own self-interest; there are no alliances or ethnic/moral calibrations between states. Therefore, only one of three options is possible as far as I can tell:

    1. Israel is Using the U.S. - American politicians have been bought by Israel.

    2. Israel is Holding the U.S. Hostage - the U.S. is supporting Israel because it has been privately threatened with nuclear attack by Israel if its existence is ever seriously threatened by the Arab states. Israel has pre-positioned suitcase nukes in major U.S. cities. (see: The Samson Option by Semour Hersch)

    3. The U.S. is Using Israel - the U.S.' primary global strategic objective is to maintain an unstable, chaotic Middle East. By throwing a chained lunatic - Israel - into the asylum, the U.S. can manipulate the price of oil.

I'm of the opinion option 3 is most likely, option 2 and 1 possible.

I do not believe the U.S. is supporting Israel because it is seeking to protect a democracy or really likes the taste of matza.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:03 pm

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:56 pm

So much for the latest version of the conspiracy theory.

Israel orders Obama to bomb Syria to smithereens ...

Prominent Israeli Cabinet ministers are calling for a U.S.-led response to what appears to have been a chemical attack in Syria last week. Benjamin Netanyahu told his Cabinet on Sunday that “this situation cannot continue.” Neither Netanyahu nor the ministers specified what type of response they were urging. The Obama administration is considering military options.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/i ... 95878.html


No matter. The talk radio crowd will just call-up their Hasbara handlers for instructions on how to keep recalibrating the conspiracy theory. It's vital to Obama, Israel, the House of Saud and the GOP that the rank & file on the Right keep up the delusion that Obama is anti-Israel, otherwise they might question their own pro-Israeli sentiment. Meanwhile, a couple hundred patriotic Americans will be sent into the meat-grinder to have their limbs blown off and bones shattered so Israel can build 84 more duplex houses in the Golan Heights without Syrian protest. The only thing that's kept a military coup from happening in the U.S. at some point in recent history is the fact the general staff gets showered with stock options and corporate directorships post-retirement. That doesn't help the enlisted men.

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:23 am

saxitoxin wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:For whatever reasons, I'm sure we feel the same about defunding Egypt's military?


I agree that the pro-Israel Egyptian military should stop receiving U.S. funding. Since the funding was put in place during Camp David to buy Egypt's establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel and demilitarization of the Sinai, the termination of funding would mean Egypt would be free to immediately resume war preparations against Israel. For that reason, neither Obama this year - nor Christie in 2016 - will be allowed by their Israeli masters to discontinue the funding to Egypt. Every day Obama continues funding the Egyptian army shows how tight the leash Tel Aviv has him on is.


What's your reasoning for the claim that Israel exerts so much unilateral influence over US foreign policy?

Or is the "leash" metaphor part of your rhetoric?


U.S. foreign policy is formulated according to the rationalist theory of IR which dictates nations only act in their own self-interest; there are no alliances or ethnic/moral calibrations between states. Therefore, only one of three options is possible as far as I can tell:

    1. Israel is Using the U.S. - American politicians have been bought by Israel.

    2. Israel is Holding the U.S. Hostage - the U.S. is supporting Israel because it has been privately threatened with nuclear attack by Israel if its existence is ever seriously threatened by the Arab states. Israel has pre-positioned suitcase nukes in major U.S. cities. (see: The Samson Option by Semour Hersch)

    3. The U.S. is Using Israel - the U.S.' primary global strategic objective is to maintain an unstable, chaotic Middle East. By throwing a chained lunatic - Israel - into the asylum, the U.S. can manipulate the price of oil.

I'm of the opinion option 3 is most likely, option 2 and 1 possible.

I do not believe the U.S. is supporting Israel because it is seeking to protect a democracy or really likes the taste of matza.


The US, the State, might really enjoy matza. Occam's Razor ftw.

A more serious answer:

That's the gist of realism (i.e. your "rationalist theory of IR"), but you're assuming USFP is determined by that one theory. Many people at many different levels hold to different theories and some even hold mixtures of them, and that can change from time to time. Realism, international liberalism, and idealism are the popular ones.

The one-sentence Realism is as you described: states are the actors, ethical implications can go to hell, and most importantly, maximize State security. International liberalism is the 'exporting democracy through war' shtick (blends well with neoconservatism). Idealism is the lesser popular. As applied to foreign policy, it's more about rhetoric, propaganda, and the permanence of words and of people's constructions of 'reality' (which when applied isn't as easily grasped and as useful for the adherents of realism and intl. liberalism).

So, we should hold some reservations about your 1, 2, and 3.

*recommended readings (just in case):
    National Security for a New Era (4th Edition) - Donald Snow
    -good description of realism with examples. It's mainly concerned about increasing security.

    Theories of US foreign policy (Brian Schmidt) from US Foreign Policy - Michael Cox and Dog Stokes
    -the text is a good introduction to USFP

    My favorite is a more technical paper by Graham T Allison - Conceptual Models and the Cuban Missile Crisis
    -He comes closest to correcting realist theory by at least mentioning that States aren't single entities, and that the various groups within them have different means and goals which create the observable outcomes. Within those groups are a similar culture which harbors 'groupthink' or at least reinforces a standard feedback loop, which serves to prevent newer, fresher ideas and approaches.

The way I've been heading (and reading) is that by applying economic theory, you don't get a Big Bad Boogie Man story (e.g. #3, which has other problems). Rather, the outcomes we see today are the result of many individuals within power and at lower levels who do not all explicitly work on the same goal, yet most of their plans reinforce this status quo. This isn't due to some Archplan for rising oil prices, but rather it's due to the incentives and choices they face within their respective positions. They face many constraints which can hamper the paths toward better outcomes. *A big shoutout goes to the US and Israeli electorate and their incentives, but I'll keep it short.

The US and Israel are in a bind, which sure, is definitely and initially perpetuated by a few, but the US need not be so strongly influenced by those few (e.g. Israeli special interest groups in the US, key politicians, etc.). In a way, it's similar to the many bills and riders which aggregate into the US-Cuba embargo. It's too difficult to dissemble and not politically nor bureaucratically profitable for even a few to start dismantling it--even though the benefits would be great for the nation (more trade).

We can talk about theory, or we can get into more detail of 1-3, which may even be feasible beyond their one- to three- sentence descriptions.
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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:02 am

#3 isn't about the US being a James Bond villain, it's about the US not really caring about the ME one way or the other. What the US cares about is China because China pays for US roads, Obamacare and Lawrence Welk museums. If Chinese economy gets to the point they can start buying their own junk instead of selling it at the Hoboken Wal Mart, their incentive to finance the goodie bags U.S. politicians hand out is eliminated. The US makes sure it can control the price of oil so China doesn't have access to the cheap stuff. That's why it keeps the wolverine's (Israel) claws sharp and goes on beach BBQ's with the coke-addicted Saudi govt and the 12 year old boys in the Royal Harem. Having an occasional office building rammed by a 757 is just the price of doing business.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: Response from a Nobel laureate

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:16 am

Phatscotty wrote:


Ron Paul's foreign policy advisor Dr. Philip Giraldi on "WHY I HATE ISRAEL" -

Dr. Giraldi wrote:But even the existence of good upstanding Israelis doesn’t alter the fact that the governments that they have elected are essentially part of a long-running criminal enterprise judging by the serial convictions of former presidents and prime ministers. Most recently, former President Moshe Katsav was convicted of rape, while almost every recent head of government, including the current one, has been investigated for corruption. Further, the Israeli government is a rogue regime by most international standards, engaging as it does in torture, arbitrary imprisonment, and continued occupation of territories seized by its military. Worse still, it has successfully manipulated my country, the United States, and has done terrible damage both to our political system and to the American people, a crime that I just cannot forgive, condone, or explain away.

And then there are the reasons to dislike Israel and what it represents that go way back. In 1952’s Lavon Affair, the Israelis were prepared to blow up a U.S. Information Center in Alexandria and blame it on the Egyptians. In 1967, the Israelis attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty, killing 34 crewmen, and then used their power over President Lyndon Johnson to block an investigation into what had occurred. In 1987, Jonathan Pollard was convicted of spying for Israel with investigators determining that he had been the most damaging spy in the history of the United States. In the 1960s, Israelis stole uranium from a lab in Pennsylvania to construct a secret nuclear arsenal. And the spying and theft of U.S. technology continues. Israel is the most active “friendly nation” when it comes to stealing U.S. secrets, and when its spies are caught, they are either sent home or, if they are Americans, receive a slap on the wrist.

Through it all, Congress and the media are oblivious to what is taking place. Israel is a net recipient of over $123 billion in U.S. aid and continues to get $3 billion a year even though its per capita income is higher than that of Spain or Italy. No one questions anything having to do with Israel while Congress rubber-stamps resolution after resolution virtually promising to go to war on Israel’s behalf.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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