No thread for Canada yet?

[KoolBak]

I am amazed this has not been posted here yet....the cowardly, heinous, criminal acts against honor guards and citizens.....disgusting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-so ... -memorial/

[GoranZ]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

[Dukasaur]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

As far as "protecting the citizens" in general, there is no system that can give perfect results. However, generally speaking, the democratic countries tend to have lower crime rates. Here is a wikipedia's map of murder rate by country (darker blues mean more murder per capita):


Canada with 1.4 murders per 100,000 population is doing quite a bit better than authoritarian Russia, which manages 9.2 murders per 100,000 population despite giving strong powers to its police.

I would venture to postulate that it is social taboo more than punishment which prevents most violent crime, and nations which foster a strong sense of respect for others tend to have a much stronger taboo against violence.

[GoranZ]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

Canada with 1.4 murders per 100,000 population is doing quite a bit better than authoritarian Russia, which manages 9.2 murders per 100,000 population despite giving strong powers to its police.

Why comparing with Russia... take China instead

[notyou2]

I am amazed this has not been posted here yet....the cowardly, heinous, criminal acts against honor guards and citizens.....disgusting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-so ... -memorial/

The guy that ran down 2 soldiers with his car was radicalized. The Parliament shootings, the guy was deranged, it appears he was not radicalized. Both individuals had definite behavioural issues.

I feel for the soldiers families.

[saxitoxin]

So, to recap ...

(a) Canada government sends cash to help overthrow of our President Bashar al-Assad, while hysterically yelling that the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party must be crushed into oblivion
(b) Canadian gunman tries to go to Syria to help Canadian government's strategic objectives (albeit perhaps for different reasons)
(c) Canadian government decides gunman's motives aren't pure enough so keeps him in Canada, though now whipped into a wild frenzy thinking the Ba'ath Party needs to be overthrown and irate he can't help
(d) irritated gunman tries to blast his way out of Canada, taking down everyone but the decisionmakers in the process

It would be uncouth to say I told you so, but I kinda did, like many months ago in the Syria thread. Harper and Trudeau will cry their crocodile tears for the reservist while continuing to advocate for the same policies that caused this to happen, knowing that they'll always have a cordon of RCMP between them and the bullets (or at least Harper will, maybe J-Rock thinks his fabulous hair will protect him).

[muy_thaiguy]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

What? What kind of rational is this? The gunmen are dead. Little late to go punish someone that most likely had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

Canada with 1.4 murders per 100,000 population is doing quite a bit better than authoritarian Russia, which manages 9.2 murders per 100,000 population despite giving strong powers to its police.

Why comparing with Russia... take China instead

Why not Russia? It's a good example.

[saxitoxin]

Canada, At War For 13 Years, Shocked That ‘A Terrorist’ Attacked Its Soldiers

It is always stunning when a country that has brought violence and military force to numerous countries acts shocked and bewildered when someone brings a tiny fraction of that violence back to that country. Regardless of one’s views on the justifiability of Canada’s lengthy military actions, it’s not the slightest bit surprising or difficult to understand why people who identify with those on the other end of Canadian bombs and bullets would decide to attack the military responsible for that violence.

That’s the nature of war. A country doesn’t get to run around for years wallowing in war glory, invading, rendering and bombing others, without the risk of having violence brought back to it.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014 ... -soldiers/

[mrswdk]

In keeping with Western responses to attacks carried out within Chinese borders, I think it is only fair we treat this as a member of an oppressed ethnic minority seeking to pressure his tyrannical government into ending its violent persecution of his people.

[GoranZ]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

What? What kind of rational is this? The gunmen are dead. Little late to go punish someone that most likely had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

Canada with 1.4 murders per 100,000 population is doing quite a bit better than authoritarian Russia, which manages 9.2 murders per 100,000 population despite giving strong powers to its police.

Why comparing with Russia... take China instead

Why not Russia? It's a good example.

Because China outperforms Canada in murders per capita, unless you suddenly change you mind and consider China as democratic country.
And Russia outperforms US by incarcerated population per capita. So any way you turn if you take US as example for democratic country you will end up proving that it is not.

I guess some things are getting trendy now...
http://pamelageller.com/2014/10/terror- ... dead.html/

[patches70]

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

Dude, it's not like this sort of thing hasn't been tried before and it doesn't work out as well as you seem to think. The most recent I suppose being the Nazis and things didn't work out so well for them, did it?

Naw, such brutal tactics don't serve one in the long run, it only solidifies opposition and toughens resolve against regimes who engage in such tactics.

The bold in your quote is not a fair response and the underlined is pure speculation.

[GoranZ]

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

Dude, it's not like this sort of thing hasn't been tried before and it doesn't work out as well as you seem to think. The most recent I suppose being the Nazis and things didn't work out so well for them, did it?

Naw, such brutal tactics don't serve one in the long run, it only solidifies opposition and toughens resolve against regimes who engage in such tactics.

The bold in your quote is not a fair response and the underlined is pure speculation.

Soviet 'How-to' Lesson For Muslim Extremists
http://articles.philly.com/1986-01-15/n ... ganization

Enjoy reading the article... its interesting, and it works

[betiko]

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

Dude, it's not like this sort of thing hasn't been tried before and it doesn't work out as well as you seem to think. The most recent I suppose being the Nazis and things didn't work out so well for them, did it?

Naw, such brutal tactics don't serve one in the long run, it only solidifies opposition and toughens resolve against regimes who engage in such tactics.

The bold in your quote is not a fair response and the underlined is pure speculation.

Soviet 'How-to' Lesson For Muslim Extremists
http://articles.philly.com/1986-01-15/n ... ganization

Enjoy reading the article... its interesting, and it works

I'm not sure killing and castrating innocents is a good way to fight back bad guys. in the long run it will probably escalate. dumb.

[AndyDufresne]

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

Dude, it's not like this sort of thing hasn't been tried before and it doesn't work out as well as you seem to think. The most recent I suppose being the Nazis and things didn't work out so well for them, did it?

Naw, such brutal tactics don't serve one in the long run, it only solidifies opposition and toughens resolve against regimes who engage in such tactics.

The bold in your quote is not a fair response and the underlined is pure speculation.

Soviet 'How-to' Lesson For Muslim Extremists
http://articles.philly.com/1986-01-15/n ... ganization

Enjoy reading the article... its interesting, and it works

I'm not sure killing and castrating innocents is a good way to fight back bad guys. in the long run it will probably escalate. dumb.

Betiko, you should learn to only turn to defunct nations for tactical, strategic, or diplomatic solutions. While, just yesterday I was reviewing the military strategy of Federal Republic of Central America, which existed from 1821 to 1841.


--Andy

[muy_thaiguy]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

What? What kind of rational is this? The gunmen are dead. Little late to go punish someone that most likely had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

When Osama was taken down, I think I remember his sons/male family members there were taken out with him. But it really didn't stop anything as other members of Al Queda just used his killing as fuel to continue their fight. And going after innocents would only incite more people to come into the fray. It would be like a friend of yours shot a person in broad daylight, and the police would then come to your house and blow your brains out. That is what you are advocating. It's stupid and pointless. All it does is incite other people to violence and it just escalates.

Canada with 1.4 murders per 100,000 population is doing quite a bit better than authoritarian Russia, which manages 9.2 murders per 100,000 population despite giving strong powers to its police.

Why comparing with Russia... take China instead

Why not Russia? It's a good example.

Because China outperforms Canada in murders per capita, unless you suddenly change you mind and consider China as democratic country.
And Russia outperforms US by incarcerated population per capita. So any way you turn if you take US as example for democratic country you will end up proving that it is not.

I guess some things are getting trendy now...
http://pamelageller.com/2014/10/terror- ... dead.html/

It still doesn't invalidate the choice though.

[DoomYoshi]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

What? What kind of rational is this? The gunmen are dead. Little late to go punish someone that most likely had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

The Romanovs were all killed, and yet here you are spouting off Imperialistic Russian hogwash; supporting a Putin who set up an emulated serf system.

[GoranZ]

I'm not sure killing and castrating innocents is a good way to fight back bad guys. in the long run it will probably escalate. dumb.

It worked for the Soviets, and it didn't escalate as you predict... it deescalate

Betiko, you should learn to only turn to defunct nations for tactical, strategic, or diplomatic solutions. While, just yesterday I was reviewing the military strategy of Federal Republic of Central America, which existed from 1821 to 1841.

--Andy

Or call ape friend like andy... that would do it

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

Both criminals (the one in the shooting yesterday, and the one in the attack on Monday) were shot dead. How much more do you want to punish them? If you say you want to resurrect them and give them a special beating before shooting them again, I would let you, but I don't think we have the technical ability.

Not really, I have no wishes to resurrect dead criminals(even if we have technical capabilities)... but you can punish someone that mattered to the criminal instead, maybe his family for example...

What? What kind of rational is this? The gunmen are dead. Little late to go punish someone that most likely had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

So you will send a message to the next one that will think about something similar... But I dont expect someone like you to understand that.
In other words US should have wipe out whole Osama family for the crimes that one of its members did. That would have been fair response that would had 99.9% success in elimination of the threat of ISIS now.

When Osama was taken down, I think I remember his sons/male family members there were taken out with him. But it really didn't stop anything as other members of Al Queda just used his killing as fuel to continue their fight. And going after innocents would only incite more people to come into the fray. It would be like a friend of yours shot a person in broad daylight, and the police would then come to your house and blow your brains out. That is what you are advocating. It's stupid and pointless. All it does is incite other people to violence and it just escalates.

And American way deescalate the situation and killed less innocent men? you must be a total idiot.
And what was done with Osama wasn't not as near to what I said.

The Romanovs were all killed, and yet here you are spouting off Imperialistic Russian hogwash; supporting a Putin who set up an emulated serf system.

What does Romanovs had with Muslim extremists? Nothing I guess, so what you are doing is mixing power struggle and anti terrorism fighting in order to achieve your goals, but you only portrait your self as blood thirsty capitalist.

[muy_thaiguy]

I'm not sure killing and castrating innocents is a good way to fight back bad guys. in the long run it will probably escalate. dumb.

It worked for the Soviets, and it didn't escalate as you predict... it deescalate

Yeah, then how come none of the countries that used to be in the USSR want anything more to do with Russia? And are getting pissed about Putin violating their air spaces, which are among the smallest of things thus far.

And American way deescalate the situation and killed less innocent men? you must be a total idiot.
And what was done with Osama wasn't not as near to what I said.

And you are going off topic with your first part. For the second, that's as far as it should go. Iron-ruling dictators only bring suffering with such policies. To attack innocent people for something they had nothing to do with is stupid and only breeds hate and contempt of the people that are supposed to be the public view of law and order.

The Romanovs were all killed, and yet here you are spouting off Imperialistic Russian hogwash; supporting a Putin who set up an emulated serf system.

What does Romanovs had with Muslim extremists? Nothing I guess, so what you are doing is mixing power struggle and anti terrorism fighting in order to achieve your goals, but you only portrait your self as blood thirsty capitalist.

He's saying, that despite the murder of the entire Russian Imperial Family, Russian Imperialism is still alive and well. Meaning, just because you kill what are supposed to be the figures of the policies you hate, does not mean those policies are gone, they just have a different face on them. Back then, it was Joseph Stalin. Now, it's Vladamir Putin. And before Stalin, it was, get this, the Romanov Imperial Family. Different faces, different names, but everything else is the same. Just under the guise of the Soviet Union and supposedly for the common man. But, not.

[GoranZ]

I'm not sure killing and castrating innocents is a good way to fight back bad guys. in the long run it will probably escalate. dumb.

It worked for the Soviets, and it didn't escalate as you predict... it deescalate

Yeah, then how come none of the countries that used to be in the USSR want anything more to do with Russia? And are getting pissed about Putin violating their air spaces, which are among the smallest of things thus far.

Soviet Union had 15 members... So you think you can enlist 14 former USSR countries that dont want to have anything with Russia rite. If you are only aware how dumb you are.

The Romanovs were all killed, and yet here you are spouting off Imperialistic Russian hogwash; supporting a Putin who set up an emulated serf system.

What does Romanovs had with Muslim extremists? Nothing I guess, so what you are doing is mixing power struggle and anti terrorism fighting in order to achieve your goals, but you only portrait your self as blood thirsty capitalist.

He's saying, that despite the murder of the entire Russian Imperial Family, Russian Imperialism is still alive and well. Meaning, just because you kill what are supposed to be the figures of the policies you hate, does not mean those policies are gone, they just have a different face on them. Back then, it was Joseph Stalin. Now, it's Vladamir Putin. And before Stalin, it was, get this, the Romanov Imperial Family. Different faces, different names, but everything else is the same. Just under the guise of the Soviet Union and supposedly for the common man. But, not.

And what that has with Muslim extremists? What happen to Romanovs happen to Louis XVI and his family century before the execution of the Romanovs... You make like Soviets invented execution of royal families

[Phatscotty]

Offical statement by President Phats to the world

I'd just like to remind everyone that the murderous actions of a single Muslim terrorist do not represent true Islam. Even though the shooter who took the lives of numerous innocent Canadians was devoutly religious and loudly proclaimed his actions were in the name of Allah, really his actions were not. They could not be, because Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is a beautiful religion and a contribution to the entire world. We will condemn the actions of this man, but we will not condemn the entire religion of Islam. Oh and by all means and please do, continue judging all of Christianity by the radical images and hateful messages you have seen 6 members of Westboro Baptist Church say and display. They may not have blown any random innocent people up or shot a bunch of civilians yet or hijacked any planes and killed thousands of innocent people yet, but it's just a matter of time before they say something hateful again, and that's why radical Christian groups remain a high priority on our domestic terrorism watch list.

Thank you, and God Bless!

[GoranZ]

Offical statement by President Phats to the world

I'd just like to remind everyone that the murderous actions of a single Muslim terrorist do not represent true Islam. Even though the shooter who took the lives of numerous innocent Canadians was devoutly religious and loudly proclaimed his actions were in the name of Allah, really his actions were not. They could not be, because Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is a beautiful religion and a contribution to the entire world. We will condemn the actions of this man, but we will not condemn the entire religion of Islam. Oh and by all means and please do, continue judging all of Christianity by the radical images and hateful messages you have seen 6 members of Westboro Baptist Church say and display. They may not have blown any random innocent people up or shot a bunch of civilians yet or hijacked any planes and killed thousands of innocent people yet, but it's just a matter of time before they say something hateful again, and that's why radical Christian groups remain a high priority on our domestic terrorism watch list.

Thank you, and God Bless!

That will work... No Islam, no Christianity

because Islam is a religion of peace

I have to lough on this... a lot.

[notyou2]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

If we try to protect ourselves and live in a bubble, then the terrorists have won. We will live our lives naturally and normally and in a free democratic system and we will persevere. They can't kill all of us.

[AndyDufresne]

What Goranz is trying to say, PUTIN IS COMIN' FOR YA, DEMOCRATIC NATIONS! SHIRTLESS AND ALLLLLL!


--Andy

[GoranZ]

Usually self proclaimed democratic governments like Canadian one fails to ensure the safety of its democratic citizens... same applied to US, UK, Norway and many other.
Democratic society doesn't have mechanisms to protect its democratic citizens... and it seems it will never have. Since there is no clear line what do do with people/organizations that dont behave according to the democratic principles... For me the solution is simple, judge them by the principles they behave upon although that might not be democratic punishment.

If we try to protect ourselves and live in a bubble, then the terrorists have won.

Where did I mention hiding, running or living in a bubble?
Terrorist win if they are not afraid, and I dont see that ISIS, Al Qaeda or any other radical Muslim being afraid. How to make them afraid is another matter.

We will live our lives naturally and normally and in a free democratic system and we will persevere. They can't kill all of us.

Sure they cant kill all those that want free democratic system now but they might become able to take out enough in 5 to 10 years from now. Currently Islamic extremists attack with normal bombs but in the future they might use chemical weapons or even worse biological one. The question is how will democratically oriented countries effectively protect them selves from their own undemocratically oriented citizens.

What Goranz is trying to say, PUTIN IS COMIN' FOR YA, DEMOCRATIC NATIONS! SHIRTLESS AND ALLLLLL!

--Andy

The ape that thinks he can read minds

I see you shit in your pants when you think about Putin... and you think about him all day long

P.S. Ape do you have neighbors in 5 mile radius?

[saxitoxin]

This photo appears to show Zife-Bibeau wearing a smock of some type:



I'm interested to hear more specifics of exactly what he was wearing. If he was attired in a uniform of some type, even a makeshift one, had declared his allegiance to a de facto foreign state which Canada is currently attacking, and confined his attacks to Canadian army targets, on what basis is he being described as a terrorist instead of a soldier engaged in a military operation?

When the German army invaded France in 1914, I'm pretty sure newspapers didn't say "Terrorists Attack France!" This is the war Canada chose to fight. The only inquiry should be why the Harper regime did not adequately prepare Ottawa's defenses from a land invasion. Canada has a fleet of submarines that can't go underwater, a navy that gets towed into battle by American tugboats, and an air force flying antiques. It seems like it bit off more than it can chew.