Germanwings flight

[betiko]

so this plane crashed a few miles away from my family house in the alps.. I was there last week and came back last week end.
From what I understand right now the copilot went berserk once the flight commander went to take a leak. I don't think there's anything more despiseful someone could do.
what are your theories?

[riskllama]

sad. apparently, there is no "2 crew member rule" on intra-european flights. whups...

[saxitoxin]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

[betiko]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

[Symmetry]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/international_operations

[saxitoxin]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

[muy_thaiguy]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

The FBI, if I'm not mistaken, has a fairly extensive list on known and suspected terrorists and other threats.

[betiko]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

Ok let's put it this way. You've got a deer that dies in your property. After a quick analysis you think it died because of a parasite. You got a friendly neighbour with a huge property living pretty close that knows a lot about this stuff and that might know something you don't. Wouldn't you try to ask him first what he thinks showing him a sample to make sure you are heading to the right conclusions?

ps: are you goranz's multi?

[betiko]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

The FBI, if I'm not mistaken, has a fairly extensive list on known and suspected terrorists and other threats.

exactly. so if there is just the slight possibility that they could have intel we don't have on the passenger list, why the hell would we not ask? this is like pointing your finger at starsky and hutch for asking intel to the huggy bear.

[saxitoxin]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

Ok let's put it this way. You've got a deer that dies in your property. After a quick analysis you think it died because of a parasite. You got a friendly neighbour with a huge property living pretty close that knows a lot about this stuff and that might know something you don't. Wouldn't you try to ask him first what he thinks showing him a sample to make sure you are heading to the right conclusions?

Good point.

Plus it probably helps if your friendly neighbor stays up until 2 a.m. every night watching your property with night vision goggles, and is reading your mail.

[betiko]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

Ok let's put it this way. You've got a deer that dies in your property. After a quick analysis you think it died because of a parasite. You got a friendly neighbour with a huge property living pretty close that knows a lot about this stuff and that might know something you don't. Wouldn't you try to ask him first what he thinks showing him a sample to make sure you are heading to the right conclusions?

Good point.

Plus it probably helps if your friendly neighbor stays up until 2 a.m. every night watching your property with night vision goggles, has your phone tapped, and is reading your mail.

we also watch his property with night vision goggles and have his phone tapped while we read his mails, just like with all other neighbours.

[saxitoxin]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

Ok let's put it this way. You've got a deer that dies in your property. After a quick analysis you think it died because of a parasite. You got a friendly neighbour with a huge property living pretty close that knows a lot about this stuff and that might know something you don't. Wouldn't you try to ask him first what he thinks showing him a sample to make sure you are heading to the right conclusions?

Good point.

Plus it probably helps if your friendly neighbor stays up until 2 a.m. every night watching your property with night vision goggles, has your phone tapped, and is reading your mail.

we also watch his property with night vision goggles and have his phone tapped while we read his mails, just like with all other neighbours.

sounds like a friendly neighborhood

[notyou2]

My theory he took the opportunity to shoot heroin while the pilot went to piss and he OD'd. Passed out on the controls and voila.

[betiko]

My theory he took the opportunity to shoot heroin while the pilot went to piss and he OD'd. Passed out on the controls and voila.

no cause supposedly they hear him breathing and he is still controlling the airplane

[Dukasaur]

I heard there's no known crime connection.

Maybe he was just plain old suicidal and decided today was the day.

Of course, it's pretty early to be drawing conclusions. This is just speculation.

[GoranZ]

France has asked the U.S. FBI to investigate the crash.

http://www.teinteresa.es/mundo/Francia- ... 68479.html

France is a nation of 60 million people, does it really not have the resources to investigate a plane crash?

no, if you can read spanish, what your article says is that france has asked the cooperation of the FBI to crosscheck passenger lists to see if anything was suspect there as they have nothing relevant on them. I have to say I had no idea some FBI agents were based overseas (france, spain and germany), I thought the FBI was purely operating on US soil... Why aren't they asking the CIA instead?
I don't see what's wrong to ask an ally if they got information on something that you could get quicker if you've got nothing. Anyways, this looks like a straight forward suicide to me.

Yeah but why does France need the U.S. to investigate a German citizen flying a German aircraft that took-off from Spain and crashed in France? The timestamp on that story is after the "co-pilot crashed the plane" angle emerged.

Maybe the co-pilot called Angela Merkel on her mobile phone before they took off so the FBI has the telephone recordings.

Ok let's put it this way. You've got a deer that dies in your property. After a quick analysis you think it died because of a parasite. You got a friendly neighbour with a huge property living pretty close that knows a lot about this stuff and that might know something you don't. Wouldn't you try to ask him first what he thinks showing him a sample to make sure you are heading to the right conclusions?

ps: are you goranz's multi?

For European plane assembled in France, France is calling FBI
Is there something you guys can do without assistance?

[saxitoxin]

Is there something you guys can do without assistance?

call for assistance

[nietzsche]

I will assist betiko in this thread

[GoranZ]

I will assist betiko in this thread

I presume FBI did the same for France as you are doing for betiko

Is there something you guys can do without assistance?

call for assistance

I presume not... FBI made the call, after all they know the French

[betiko]

I heard there's no known crime connection.

Maybe he was just plain old suicidal and decided today was the day.

Of course, it's pretty early to be drawing conclusions. This is just speculation.

Well this is what i already stated in the op. I think there is probably a megalomaniac perversion that makes certain people go for the most melodramatic suicide possible.
But for this guy it s strange. I don t really understand how he could fit the profile... 28yo with no real history of anything wacky.. And the conversation with the flight commander was totally normal and friendly minutes before..
The flight commander goes to take a leak... And this copilot blocks the door and crashes the plane on purpose. I don t know.. It sounds like sudden madness... A deathwish that crossed his mind just like that. We ll need to wait to know more... But that is pretty scary that such thoughts can go through someone s mind and be so coldly executed..

[neanderpaul14]

I heard there's no known crime connection.

Maybe he was just plain old suicidal and decided today was the day.

Of course, it's pretty early to be drawing conclusions. This is just speculation.

Well this is what i already stated in the op. I think there is probably a megalomaniac perversion that makes certain people go for the most melodramatic suicide possible.
But for this guy it s strange. I don t really understand how he could fit the profile... 28yo with no real history of anything wacky.. And the conversation with the flight commander was totally normal and friendly minutes before..
The flight commander goes to take a leak... And this copilot blocks the door and crashes the plane on purpose. I don t know.. It sounds like sudden madness... A deathwish that crossed his mind just like that. We ll need to wait to know more... But that is pretty scary that such thoughts can go through someone s mind and be so coldly executed..

From what I've been reading I found this: "Lufthansa revealed that Lubitz’s training in 2009 had been briefly interrupted, but was resumed after “his suitability as a candidate was re-established”. Asked about the reason for the interruption, Spohr said he was not allowed to say."


So not sure what they're not saying right now but......

[DaGip]

I bet ya that when the pilot got locked out of the cockpit after taking a leak that he really shit his pants!

[betiko]

I heard there's no known crime connection.

Maybe he was just plain old suicidal and decided today was the day.

Of course, it's pretty early to be drawing conclusions. This is just speculation.

Well this is what i already stated in the op. I think there is probably a megalomaniac perversion that makes certain people go for the most melodramatic suicide possible.
But for this guy it s strange. I don t really understand how he could fit the profile... 28yo with no real history of anything wacky.. And the conversation with the flight commander was totally normal and friendly minutes before..
The flight commander goes to take a leak... And this copilot blocks the door and crashes the plane on purpose. I don t know.. It sounds like sudden madness... A deathwish that crossed his mind just like that. We ll need to wait to know more... But that is pretty scary that such thoughts can go through someone s mind and be so coldly executed..

From what I've been reading I found this: "Lufthansa revealed that Lubitz’s training in 2009 had been briefly interrupted, but was resumed after “his suitability as a candidate was re-established”. Asked about the reason for the interruption, Spohr said he was not allowed to say."


So not sure what they're not saying right now but......

Yeah read something like that but since they aren t even explaining what it was... A lot of speculations at this point.

[mrswdk]

The moral of the story: fly Hainan or China Southern.

[Army of GOD]

The moral of the story: fly Hainan or China Southern.

I thought the moral of the story is never trust the Germans