Biden causes Crisis at the US-Mexico Border

[pmac666]

But hes not exactly like Trump. Trump already admitted how good the economy is.

[jusplay4fun]

More blinded, bias, and myopic analysis by p-rat; what a waste of space.

Another word salad thrown about...your posts are empty of any meaning, matches the empty space between your ears.

Another pathetic, weak, and vacuous response by p-rat who rants and raves and launches another ad hominem attack. You are terrible at refutation, p-rat. Do you always claim "word salad" when you run out of ideas? That response is getting hackneyed by you, p-rat. But what can we expect from vermin like you? NOT MUCH more.

Vermin? Do you have a Mein Kampf book on your nightstand next to your single bed?

WoW. this is ANOTHER pathetic, weak, and vacuous response by p-rat.

This is getting old and fast; someone remind me to ignore this person.

OKAY, note to self IGNORE p-rat and p-mac for at least 24 hours.

Vacuous? Where do you find these words? Do you actually speak this word in public?

Justplaywithyourself, you actually think that using obscure words make you sound right or intelligent?

Find? I know them. There is no "find" except to give the matter a moment of thought.

Having to educate poor, illiterate, and feeble p-rat is becoming a full time job. SAD that p-rat is so STOOOPID. And there is NO effort by me to sound or be more intelligent than you. That is OBVIOUS, with NO effort by me required.

vacuous
1. : emptied of or lacking content. 2. : marked by lack of ideas or intelligence : stupid, inane. a vacuous mind.

This is an apt evaluation of the mind of p-rat. But do we expect more from such vermin?

And for the record, I do not read books written by tyrants and madmen. When all else fails, those like you call others racists or Nazis. WEAK and Pathetic.

Another feeble response, like your impotent heros Biden and p-mac. SAD and STOOOPID.

[jusplay4fun]

KGNS on location: President Biden visits Brownsville, Texas

BROWNSVILLE, TX . (KGNS) - President Joe Biden and his likely Republican challenger Donald Trump are heading to the U.S.-Mexico border in Texas on Thursday.

KGNS News Assistant News Director Alex Cano is in Brownsville waiting for the president’s arrival.

As part of the president’s visit, a Laredo elected official will be in the same room as President Biden to discuss border security.

One of the topics on the table will be relating to the fentanyl crisis, a problem that has killed many in Laredo and surrounding communities.

https://www.kgns.tv/2024/02/29/kgns-location-president-biden-visits-brownsville-texas/

[jusplay4fun]

Three takeaways from this:

1) The only reason Biden goes to the Border is that it has now become a campaign issue that Biden can NO LONGER IGNORE.

2) Biden and Dems only know ONE solution: Throw more MONEY at a problem. (Please read below.)

3) Biden does not change policy as a way to fix the problem, as he could have EASILY DONE SO if he tried. What is Biden waiting for? This is a CRISES created by Biden, and he can reverse the FLOW, by executive action. His executive actions on Day One of his Administration caused this problem. PERIOD.

Immigration and border security have emerged as hot political issues that are likely to be a big part of the presidential race this fall.

Trump’s campaign has claimed Biden’s trip to the border is a “last-minute, insincere attempt” to counter the former president’s visit to Texas.

https://thehill.com/homenews/4498124-trump-gives-remarks-during-visit-to-southern-border-watch-live/

After being briefed by border patrol agents and others on the ground, Biden said they "desperately need more resources."

Trump also met with local officials as well as Texas Governor Greg Abbott, a Republican, at the Rio Grande before speaking at Shelby Park in Eagle Pass, where border-crossers have posed a major problem for authorities in recent months.

"This is a Biden invasion over the past three years," Trump said, citing crimes committed by migrants and referring to the issue at the border as a "war", in the latest examples of the increasingly inflammatory language he has used in recent months.

He pledged to bring back policies in place during his term in office, including the "Remain in Mexico" plan that required some migrants to wait in Mexico for the outcome of their U.S. immigration cases.

Several hundred Trump supporters gathered on street corners in an area overlooking Shelby Park, an area that has been commandeered to block migrants crossing illegally, carrying “Make America Great Again” and “Never Surrender” flags.

Biden took office in 2021 promising to reverse the hardline immigration policies of Trump, who was in office from 2017 to early 2021, but has since toughened his own approach.

Under pressure from Republicans who accuse him of failing to control the border, Biden called on Congress last year to provide more enforcement funding and said he would "shut down the border" if given new authority to turn back migrants.

The White House is also considering using executive authority to deny more migrants asylum at the border, a source familiar with the matter has said.

Republicans have said Biden could better enforce existing laws and take new executive action without the need for Congress to approve it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-make-competing-election-year-visits-southern-us-border-2024-02-29/

[jusplay4fun]

Note how important this issue is to the election this November of Biden vs. Trump.

[riskllama]

[Lonous]

Total chaos erupting

[Pack Rat]

I thought Abbott had this all under his personal command?

Pass the fukn Border Security Bill!

[jusplay4fun]

Biden can fix MUCH of the border crises with simple Executive Orders, just like HE CAUSED this current problem with his Executive Orders on Day One of his Administration.

Biden does not need the or any border bill to do anything about the border; he has the power and authority ALREADY.

The REAL questions are:

1) why will Biden NOT do ANYTHING to fix the border mess?

2) why has Kamala did so little on this matter that she was put in charge of? Has she visited the border, other than that ONE time?

[Dukasaur]

Biden can fix MUCH of the border crises with simple Executive Orders, just like HE CAUSED this current problem with his Executive Orders on Day One of his Administration.

Biden does not need the or any border bill to do anything about the border; he has the power and authority ALREADY.

That's just not true.

The waiting list for refugee claims to be heard is years now. That cannot be fixed without a vast increase in the number of tribunals, and those cannot be hired without congressional appropriations. While these people are waiting years for their case to be heard, there are only two choices: keep them in jails, which are already overfilled and likewise cannot be expanded without additional appropriation, or release them to fend for themselves, which leads to the familiar complaints that they are working illegally and/or engaging in criminal activities. I suppose there's the third option, of deporting them without a hearing, which is both illegal and inhumane, but doubtless some people would smile upon it.

Having your case heard in a reasonable amount of time is a hallmark of justice in any civilized society. This can't be accomplished with Executive powers alone. It needs a major overhaul of the immigration tribunals and a major expansion of them, all of which requires congressional action.

[jusplay4fun]

Biden can fix MUCH of the border crises with simple Executive Orders, just like HE CAUSED this current problem with his Executive Orders on Day One of his Administration.

Biden does not need the or any border bill to do anything about the border; he has the power and authority ALREADY.

That's just not true.

The waiting list for refugee claims to be heard is years now. That cannot be fixed without a vast increase in the number of tribunals, and those cannot be hired without congressional appropriations. While these people are waiting years for their case to be heard, there are only two choices: keep them in jails, which are already overfilled and likewise cannot be expanded without additional appropriation, or release them to fend for themselves, which leads to the familiar complaints that they are working illegally and/or engaging in criminal activities. I suppose there's the third option, of deporting them without a hearing, which is both illegal and inhumane, but doubtless some people would smile upon it.

Having your case heard in a reasonable amount of time is a hallmark of justice in any civilized society. This can't be accomplished with Executive powers alone. It needs a major overhaul of the immigration tribunals and a major expansion of them, all of which requires congressional action.

A BIG part of the problem is that we, under Biden's rules and orders, ALLOW nearly EVERYONE in. The courts set up for such hearings are OVERWHELMED. Are we obligated to hear EVERY case in one month? one year? How many judges (and staff) will some 6 million cases OR MORE take? And are we, the USA, obligated to ALLOW into our country who shows up at our border?

OR: Are we allowed to have a more orderly process? Are allowed to let in a MANAGEABLE number of immigrants each year? We had that in place, until the flow became A FLOOD across the US southern border with Mexico. AND Joe Biden is largely to BLAME for this flood, as I have already documented previously in this very thread. What does Canada do, Duk? Allow in ANYONE? I doubt that.

And are we allowed to control the COSTS of dealing with, housing, feeding, tranporting, educating, and MORE (medical, clothing) these persons? OR are we supposed to do ALL that for ALL these people? THOSE are the fundamental questions that have been largely ignored by Biden and his handlers.

[Pack Rat]

The Republicans need to.sign off on the Border Security Bill!

Stop whining and playing games.

....and stop taking orders from the bankrupt loser.

[Dukasaur]

Biden can fix MUCH of the border crises with simple Executive Orders, just like HE CAUSED this current problem with his Executive Orders on Day One of his Administration.

Biden does not need the or any border bill to do anything about the border; he has the power and authority ALREADY.

That's just not true.

The waiting list for refugee claims to be heard is years now. That cannot be fixed without a vast increase in the number of tribunals, and those cannot be hired without congressional appropriations. While these people are waiting years for their case to be heard, there are only two choices: keep them in jails, which are already overfilled and likewise cannot be expanded without additional appropriation, or release them to fend for themselves, which leads to the familiar complaints that they are working illegally and/or engaging in criminal activities. I suppose there's the third option, of deporting them without a hearing, which is both illegal and inhumane, but doubtless some people would smile upon it.

Having your case heard in a reasonable amount of time is a hallmark of justice in any civilized society. This can't be accomplished with Executive powers alone. It needs a major overhaul of the immigration tribunals and a major expansion of them, all of which requires congressional action.

A BIG part of the problem is that we, under Biden's rules and orders, ALLOW nearly EVERYONE in.

This is a blatant falsehood.

A quick look at the CBP website show's that just in 2023 (the most recent full year) 3,201,144 persons were either refused entry or ejected after having entered.

Since Biden took office, about 9 million people have been either denied entry or ejected after having entered. Pretty much the opposite of allowing "nearly everyone in".

The courts set up for such hearings are OVERWHELMED.

That is true. After 30 years ever constant neglect and underfunding, the system is definitely overwhelmed.

Are we obligated to hear EVERY case in one month? one year?

I don't think any reasonable person would expect 30 years of neglect to be cleaned up in one month. Probably not in a year. Maybe not in five years.

But if you don't even try, it will NEVER get cleaned up.

Currently, the average wait time for a case to be heard is 2050 days. Almost six years. That's clearly unacceptable. It's not going to get fixed overnight. But if you don't start fixing it, it will NEVER get fixed. Maybe you can't clear a six-year backlog this year. But you could set yourself a goal, perhaps, of reducing the backlog to four years by the end of this year, and by the end of next year to reduce the backlog to two years. Perhaps.

But you need to at least try.

How many judges (and staff) will some 6 million cases OR MORE take?

Quite a few, probably.

How many loan officers do banks need to process the tens of millions of loan applications they get every year? If a bank couldn't keep up with the volume of loan applications in a year, would it just put a sign on the door saying, "future customers f*ck off!" or would it hire more loan officers?

And are we, the USA, obligated to ALLOW into our country who shows up at our border?

Certainly not. And, judging by the statistics, millions are not allowed.

If you want to claim to be a civilized country, however, you are required to give a fair and impartial hearing to asylum seekers, both by the basic rules of human decency and by formal treaties you have signed.

OR: Are we allowed to have a more orderly process?

Certainly, I think you should have a more orderly process. Maybe you can start working on it. Thirty years of neglect is quite enough.

Are allowed to let in a MANAGEABLE number of immigrants each year?

Yes, I would think so.

We had that in place, until the flow became A FLOOD across the US southern border with Mexico.

Wrong. The system has been a mess for decades.

AND Joe Biden is largely to BLAME for this flood, as I have already documented alleged previously in this very thread.

Fixed.

What does Canada do, Duk? Allow in ANYONE? I doubt that.

Definitely not. In some ways our system is stricter than yours.

And are we allowed to control the COSTS of dealing with, housing, feeding, tranporting, educating, and MORE (medical, clothing) these persons?

One would hope so.

OR are we supposed to do ALL that for ALL these people? THOSE are the fundamental questions that have been largely ignored by Biden and his handlers.

There are several core problems.

The first, already discussed, is that you have neglected the tribunals for so long that this monster backlog has developed. If refugee claims would be heard within a week or two, you wouldn't be feeding claimants for years. In a week or two they would be either legally in (and looking for a job) or legally out (and not your problem any more.) A speedy resolution would solve a great many problems.

Another real problem is that you have a labour shortage and you desperately need those workers, but because you refuse to be honest about that, you don't have any realistic plan for getting legal immigrants in to fill those job vacancies. A vast many end up working illegally, with all the problems that entails. You asked a couple paragraphs ago about Canada. One major difference we have between our countries is that in Canada we are honest that there are not enough agricultural workers to bring in the harvest. At the start of a season, the government polls the farmers and asks how many workers they will need, and we issue enough temporary work visas to fill the vacancies. American farmers need those workers too, but because your government is unwilling to be honest about it, temporary work visas are extremely difficult to get, and farmers have to get their migrant workers on the illegal market.

[jusplay4fun]

Yes, the problem has been going on since the LAST major reform and changes to the law, under Reagan in the 1980's, so the problem has been going on for some 40 years.

I allege and DOCUMENTED that this current SURGE (FLOOD) of immigrants started with Biden's Executive Orders on Day 1. I need not re-prove all that. You asked me about one year ago to prove it, I did, and you did not reply.

Nearly everyone who crosses the border claims asylum, even if they are not eligible on the first look. What percent is turned away? ALMOST NO ONE. The process is NOT orderly. People merely get smuggled in and/or walk across NOW and ALL get a hearing date. THAT simple, NO order, we (at the border) hand them a "GET into the USA FREE CARD" and most will disappear into the US. I doubt most show up for their hearing. They are basically IN.

You admit that we should have an orderly process. What we see at the border is certainly NOT orderly. It is a MAD RUSH to get across. The video posted earlier shows that; it may not happen that exact way, but it is symbolic of what is occurring. What happened when those who got to the large metal fence? They were handed one of those cards to show up to a hearing later AND LET IN. That is what happens ALL THE TIME. Essentially everyone who gets to the border is let in. How do you vet and check such a large number? NOT WELL.

An asylum hearing is a good idea, IN AN ORDERLY process. I have already said that process is not orderly. And now that folks see how easy it is to GET IN, we now have Chinese and Africans simply walk in and get a "card." This is NOT the intent or design of the system. The Border Patrol do not keep anyone out, they hand out blankets and water and cards to everyone AND FREE transportation, in a short time. And the illegal immigrants (correctly called by Biden, who tried to walk that label back, WITHOUT APOLOGIZING FOR THE DEATH OF LAKEN RILEY) get housed, fed, and likely medical attention while in the initial detention. Get IN FREE and GET FREE CARE, As I already said a long while ago.

https://www.arizonaimmigration.net/asylum-at-the-border-frequently-asked-questions

One basic difference is that while the US suffers from a HUGE surge, Canada does NOT and therefore Duk is not personally vested in the results in the US. His tax money does not fund any of this. I care what happens to my tax dollars.

We need an orderly system for immigration and what is happening is NOT orderly and basically lets in nearly everyone.

And one more point, these immigrants have been coached and trained, first by lawyers and now by "coyotes" who help smuggle them in, even if they are NOT remotely eligible, to claim asylum. THAT overwhelms the system and is now the GAME changer at the border in recent years, especially under Biden.

Summary

The right to apply for asylum is enshrined in U.S. and international law. The qualifications resemble those for refugee status, but asylum seekers follow a different process.

Asylum claims have reached record levels in recent years, though they dropped early in the COVID-19 pandemic. In fiscal year 2022, the U.S. government granted asylum to more than thirty-six thousand migrants.

President Joe Biden pledged to restore asylum access that had been curtailed under President Donald Trump, but a historic surge in migration at the U.S.-Mexico border is challenging his plans.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/seeking-protection-how-us-asylum-process-works

same source:

The total number of asylum seekers almost quadrupled between fiscal years 2021 and 2022, with nearly five hundred thousand applications in FY 2022. Nationals of Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela, and countries in Central America made up the bulk of asylum applications; however, only slightly more than thirty-six thousand of those applications resulted in asylum grants. The past decade saw a sharp rise in asylum applications from Latin America, primarily Mexico and Central America, as migrants fled worsening violence, poverty, and political dysfunction. Of the pending asylum cases in the backlog, roughly a quarter are for migrants from the so-called Northern Triangle countries of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.
(...)
In FY 2023, the government denied nearly thirty-six thousand asylum applications, or roughly 50 percent of all asylum decisions made that year.

There are lots of good graphs at the site above, too. This article also offers a historical summary and looks to be a balanced look at the situation.

As I said, NOT all are eligible. (50% documented above.)

And to compare immigration to banking is not a good analogy. The Government is not a for-profit organization and actually SPENDS and does not produce profit, only drains it away from taxpayers. To extend the analogy that you set up, this current immigration situation is like the bank run at the start of the Great Depression. When banks were overwhelmed in the 1930s, they did not hire more to handle the crush of people wanting their money. POOR ANALOGY.

same source:

Critics, however, counter that the U.S. asylum system no longer serves its intended purpose. They argue that it enables “economic migrants,” or those who leave their home country in search of better job opportunities, to live and work in the country for years while their asylum claims sit in the backlog. Some Republicans have put forward legislation to reduce the number of asylum seekers in the system by expediting deportations or raising the minimum standard that migrants must meet to claim a credible fear of persecution.

(...)
Other countries likewise struggle to handle rising asylum claims. Canada has a comparatively open policy toward asylum seekers, most of whom can immediately apply for permanent residency and receive a host of benefits, including health care, after receiving protected status. However, the surge in asylum seekers entering Canada from the United States in recent years prompted the two governments to amend their safe third country agreement to expand authorities’ ability to turn away migrants. Similarly, some member states in the European Union, which has struggled with elevated migration from Africa and the Middle East since 2015, said they are tightening their borders amid surges of illegal migration. And in Australia and Denmark, authorities have faced criticism for using offshore processing centers.

Yes, there are many reasons to fix the problem, which is not an easy one to fix. There have been many hurdles to prevent solving before NOW. And consensus is not easy, especially now that the problem has been politicized into Left v. Right, Biden v. Trump.

One more point:

Asylum seekers are supposed to apply for asylum in Mexico if they use that nation to enter the US. They apparently do not.

What has Biden done?
Biden took office in 2021 promising to undo many of Trump’s restrictive asylum policies. He has ended the metering policy at ports of entry, restored asylum protections to victims of domestic and gang violence, and rescinded the zero-tolerance policy. His administration has also expanded TPS protections to several additional countries, raised the annual cap on refugee admissions, and created a family-reunification task force. The administration also ended the Remain in Mexico program after eventually winning the Supreme Court’s approval and launched a four-year, $4 billion initiative to address the drivers of migration from Central America, though some analysts say it has made little progress.

The historic influx of migrants at the southern U.S. border has challenged Biden’s plans. Fearing a migration surge after Title 42 expired in May 2023, the administration unveiled a restrictive new policy that allows the government to deny asylum to migrants who did not previously apply for it in a third country and to those who cross the border illegally.

Bottom line, here; Little will get done between now and the November election.

But analysts say there is only so much the White House can do on its own. “Biden faces severe political pressure to effectively deal with the historic number of migrants at the border. Ultimately, it is up to Congress to pass legislation to overhaul a crowded, inefficient immigration system,” the Los Angeles Times’ editorial board writes.

I agree with the LA Times here.

[mookiemcgee]

Just to add on the last point Duk made because it's one I've made in the past...

There is estimated to be 2.4 million farmwork jobs in the USA.

in 2022 the state department issued 298,336 temporary farm work visas (H2-A) for the entire United States. Employers that participate in the H2-A program wait at least 75 days from applying for a worker to a visa being issued to a worker they are matched with. The gov't decides which worker you are matched with, and the farmers.gov website indicates employers should expect that over and above the wages they are paying the workers the following costs are involved:
Labor Certification $100 + $10 per worker
Non-Immigrant Worker Petition Filing fee $460
Consulate fee $190 per worker (worker must be reimbursed in first paycheck)
Border stamp fee $6 per worker
Agent fees Approximately $100 per worker
Transport from home country to work site $400 to $650 per worker
Housing and livable fittings Approximately $9,000 to $13,000 per worker


Until America actually addresses the visa system fundamentally for the benefit of it's citizens and sovereignty, instead of focusing on what's happening at the border nothing can change. They could dig a giant moat and have sharks with lazers swimming in it next to a 50 foot electrified and Nuru massage gel covered wall for the entirety of the border, but US farms would still have 2.4 million jobs to fill and not enough US citizens willing to take those jobs due to low wages, low existing unemployment, transient/seasonal nature of the work.

moving 2m workers from 'illegals' to tax payers who you can kick right out when their visa is up without a asylum hearing and who aren't granted a path to citizenship seems like it would be something republicans would want, but the narrative they have created along the border would prevent moderate republican lawmakers from ever voting for something like that now because their own party/voters would roast them. It would just be spun as RINO's letting 'millions of illegals into our country to take our jobs and rape our children'.

[jusplay4fun]

Just to add on the last point Duk made because it's one I've made in the past...

There is estimated to be 2.4 million farmwork jobs in the USA.

in 2022 the state department issued 298,336 temporary farm work visas (H2-A) for the entire United States. Employers that participate in the H2-A program wait at least 75 days from applying for a worker to a visa being issued to a worker they are matched with. The gov't decides which worker you are matched with, and the farmers.gov website indicates employers should expect that over and above the wages they are paying the workers the following costs are involved:
Labor Certification $100 + $10 per worker
Non-Immigrant Worker Petition Filing fee $460
Consulate fee $190 per worker (worker must be reimbursed in first paycheck)
Border stamp fee $6 per worker
Agent fees Approximately $100 per worker
Transport from home country to work site $400 to $650 per worker
Housing and livable fittings Approximately $9,000 to $13,000 per worker


Until America actually addresses the visa system fundamentally for the benefit of it's citizens and sovereignty, instead of focusing on what's happening at the border nothing can change. They could dig a giant moat and have sharks with lazers swimming in it next to a 50 foot electrified and Nuru massage gel covered wall for the entirety of the border, but US farms would still have 2.4 million jobs to fill and not enough US citizens willing to take those jobs due to low wages, low existing unemployment, transient/seasonal nature of the work.

moving 2m workers from 'illegals' to tax payers who you can kick right out when their visa is up without a asylum hearing and who aren't granted a path to citizenship seems like it would be something republicans would want, but the narrative they have created along the border would prevent moderate republican lawmakers from ever voting for something like that now because their own party/voters would roast them. It would just be spun as RINO's letting 'millions of illegals into our country to take our jobs and rape our children'.

So what is your point, Mookie? Can you get enough workers to pick your grapes? Or does the system prevent this? Or is it difficult to get enough workers now?

Frankly, I did not look into the Ag issue, as I see this as relatively small compared to the other immigration issues.

[Dukasaur]

Yes, the problem has been going on since the LAST major reform and changes to the law, under Reagan in the 1980's, so the problem has been going on for some 40 years.{/quote]

I allege and DOCUMENTED that this current SURGE (FLOOD) of immigrants started with Biden's Executive Orders on Day 1. I need not re-prove all that. You asked me about one year ago to prove it, I did, and you did not reply.

I vaguely remember the discussion. I recall that I didn't consider your "proof" to be a proof. I wish I could remember more detail, but I certainly wasn't convinced.

Nearly everyone who crosses the border claims asylum, even if they are not eligible on the first look. What percent is turned away? ALMOST NO ONE.

Okay, I just posted official numbers from the CBP, backed up with a link to their website, that 9 million were turned away. If you think 9 million is "ALMOST NO ONE" then I don't know what to say.

The process is NOT orderly.

Agreed. The process is not orderly. It's well past time you did something to fix it.

People merely get smuggled in and/or walk across NOW and ALL get a hearing date. THAT simple, NO order, we (at the border) hand them a "GET into the USA FREE CARD" and most will disappear into the US. I doubt most show up for their hearing. They are basically IN.

Yes, since you can't find time to hear their case for six years, it's cheaper to let them walk the streets and fend for themselves than to incarcerate them for six years.

If you could build a functional system that would hear their case within a week or two, you could just keep them in holding for a couple weeks and not lose track of them.

You admit that we should have an orderly process. What we see at the border is certainly NOT orderly. It is a MAD RUSH to get across. The video posted earlier shows that; it may not happen that exact way, but it is symbolic of what is occurring. What happened when those who got to the large metal fence? They were handed one of those cards to show up to a hearing later AND LET IN. That is what happens ALL THE TIME. Essentially everyone who gets to the border is let in. How do you vet and check such a large number? NOT WELL.

An asylum hearing is a good idea, IN AN ORDERLY process. I have already said that process is not orderly. And now that folks see how easy it is to GET IN, we now have Chinese and Africans simply walk in and get a "card." This is NOT the intent or design of the system. The Border Patrol do not keep anyone out, they hand out blankets and water and cards to everyone AND FREE transportation, in a short time. And the illegal immigrants (correctly called by Biden, who tried to walk that label back, WITHOUT APOLOGIZING FOR THE DEATH OF LAKEN RILEY) get housed, fed, and likely medical attention while in the initial detention. Get IN FREE and GET FREE CARE, As I already said a long while ago.

Yeah, you're not wrong that the system is a mess. You're wrong about the causes, but not about the symptoms.

One basic difference is that while the US suffers from a HUGE surge, Canada does NOT and therefore Duk is not personally vested in the results in the US. His tax money does not fund any of this. I care what happens to my tax dollars.

So many directions I could go from here, I don't know which path I should take.

First, yes, you're absolutely right. Canada gets off easy as a result of geography. Our only land border is with the U.S. Most of the immigration to Canada comes through airports, which are far easier to regulate and monitor. So yes, you have a naturally bigger problem as a result of geography, which is nobody's fault. (Not even the Romans.)

Yes, my taxes don't go to deal with your problem. We do have some refugee issues in Canada, but by comparison they are tiny. Of course, the fraction of your tax dollar that goes to immigration is not very big, either.

I planned to say more but quickly running out of time here. Basically having an intelligent strategy for integrating refugees pays off. We have now the example of Germany during the Syrian refugee crisis of 2006. The German federal government worked to make sure the new arrivals were spread out across the country to not overburden any single city. This is in marked contrast to the way your country has left a handful of states dealing with the problems. What happened afterwards is even more instructive. Some German cities welcomed the new arrivals with open arms, provided them with free education and job-seeking assistance. Those cities have mostly integrated all of the refugees and made productive citizens out of them. Those cities are now booming. Other German cities turned their back on the refugees, offered them nothing except some slums to live in and the bare essentials. Those cities still haven't integrated their refugees. They still have slums, low employment rates among the refugees, and consequently high crime rates.

It pays to face migration with honesty and optimism and an intelligently-designed, adequately-funded system. You might find it saves on your taxes in the long run.

[mookiemcgee]

Just to add on the last point Duk made because it's one I've made in the past...

There is estimated to be 2.4 million farmwork jobs in the USA.

in 2022 the state department issued 298,336 temporary farm work visas (H2-A) for the entire United States. Employers that participate in the H2-A program wait at least 75 days from applying for a worker to a visa being issued to a worker they are matched with. The gov't decides which worker you are matched with, and the farmers.gov website indicates employers should expect that over and above the wages they are paying the workers the following costs are involved:
Labor Certification $100 + $10 per worker
Non-Immigrant Worker Petition Filing fee $460
Consulate fee $190 per worker (worker must be reimbursed in first paycheck)
Border stamp fee $6 per worker
Agent fees Approximately $100 per worker
Transport from home country to work site $400 to $650 per worker
Housing and livable fittings Approximately $9,000 to $13,000 per worker


Until America actually addresses the visa system fundamentally for the benefit of it's citizens and sovereignty, instead of focusing on what's happening at the border nothing can change. They could dig a giant moat and have sharks with lazers swimming in it next to a 50 foot electrified and Nuru massage gel covered wall for the entirety of the border, but US farms would still have 2.4 million jobs to fill and not enough US citizens willing to take those jobs due to low wages, low existing unemployment, transient/seasonal nature of the work.

moving 2m workers from 'illegals' to tax payers who you can kick right out when their visa is up without a asylum hearing and who aren't granted a path to citizenship seems like it would be something republicans would want, but the narrative they have created along the border would prevent moderate republican lawmakers from ever voting for something like that now because their own party/voters would roast them. It would just be spun as RINO's letting 'millions of illegals into our country to take our jobs and rape our children'.

So what is your point, Mookie? Can you get enough workers to pick your grapes? Or does the system prevent this? Or is it difficult to get enough workers now?

Frankly, I did not look into the Ag issue, as I see this as relatively small compared to the other immigration issues.

You think it's small? 20-30% of undocumented people currently in the US are employed in AG. It's the biggest sector and it's not particularly close. It's estimate there are around 8 million undocmented people in the US laborforce, 25% of that is 2 million people. There are roughly 2 million illegal border crossings a year into the US. The US employer demand for farmwork is 2.4 million jobs/year, 300,000 visa per year are issued.

You really don't think that's relevant? Have I made a point yet?

[jusplay4fun]

Just to add on the last point Duk made because it's one I've made in the past...

There is estimated to be 2.4 million farmwork jobs in the USA.

in 2022 the state department issued 298,336 temporary farm work visas (H2-A) for the entire United States. Employers that participate in the H2-A program wait at least 75 days from applying for a worker to a visa being issued to a worker they are matched with. The gov't decides which worker you are matched with, and the farmers.gov website indicates employers should expect that over and above the wages they are paying the workers the following costs are involved:
Labor Certification $100 + $10 per worker
Non-Immigrant Worker Petition Filing fee $460
Consulate fee $190 per worker (worker must be reimbursed in first paycheck)
Border stamp fee $6 per worker
Agent fees Approximately $100 per worker
Transport from home country to work site $400 to $650 per worker
Housing and livable fittings Approximately $9,000 to $13,000 per worker


Until America actually addresses the visa system fundamentally for the benefit of it's citizens and sovereignty, instead of focusing on what's happening at the border nothing can change. They could dig a giant moat and have sharks with lazers swimming in it next to a 50 foot electrified and Nuru massage gel covered wall for the entirety of the border, but US farms would still have 2.4 million jobs to fill and not enough US citizens willing to take those jobs due to low wages, low existing unemployment, transient/seasonal nature of the work.

moving 2m workers from 'illegals' to tax payers who you can kick right out when their visa is up without a asylum hearing and who aren't granted a path to citizenship seems like it would be something republicans would want, but the narrative they have created along the border would prevent moderate republican lawmakers from ever voting for something like that now because their own party/voters would roast them. It would just be spun as RINO's letting 'millions of illegals into our country to take our jobs and rape our children'.

So what is your point, Mookie? Can you get enough workers to pick your grapes? Or does the system prevent this? Or is it difficult to get enough workers now?

Frankly, I did not look into the Ag issue, as I see this as relatively small compared to the other immigration issues.

You think it's small? 20-30% of undocumented people currently in the US are employed in AG. It's the biggest sector and it's not particularly close. It's estimate there are around 8 million undocmented people in the US laborforce, 25% of that is 2 million people. There are roughly 2 million illegal border crossings a year into the US. The US employer demand for farmwork is 2.4 million jobs/year, 300,000 visa per year are issued.

You really don't think that's relevant? Have I made a point yet?

Honestly, the Ag sector does not get enough attention or love or interest. I am guilty as are most people.
mea culpa

[jusplay4fun]

Okay, to refresh your memory, here it is. You got into some discussion with JimBoston instead of discussing what I posted.

by Dukasaur on Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:54 am

jusplay4fun wrote:
Yes, the problem has been going on since the LAST major reform and changes to the law, under Reagan in the 1980's, so the problem has been going on for some 40 years.{/quote]

I allege and DOCUMENTED that this current SURGE (FLOOD) of immigrants started with Biden's Executive Orders on Day 1. I need not re-prove all that. You asked me about one year ago to prove it, I did, and you did not reply.

I vaguely remember the discussion. I recall that I didn't consider your "proof" to be a proof. I wish I could remember more detail, but I certainly wasn't convinced.

Re: Biden causes Crisis at the US-Mexico Border
Dukasaur wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:
It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants.

Which words? Please indicate exactly which words you think encouraged people to immigrate.

#1
Remarks by President Biden on Border Security and Enforcement
HOME
BRIEFING ROOM
SPEECHES AND REMARKS
Roosevelt Room

11:54 A.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Hi, everybody. Sorry to keep you waiting. There’s a lot going on.

Today, I’d like to — the Vice President and I would like to talk you about how my administration is dealing with our situation in the southwest border.

Now, these actions alone that I’m going to announce today aren’t going to fix our entire immigration system, but they can help us a good deal in better managing what is a difficult challenge.

On my first day in office, some of you may recall, who cover this area — and they cover it well — I sent Congress a comprehensive piece of legislation that would completely overhaul what has been a broken immigration system for a long time: cracking down on illegal immigration; strengthening legal immigration; and protecting DREAMers, those with temporary protected status, and farmworkers, who all are part of the fabric of our nation.

(...)
Today, my administration is taking several steps to stiffen enforcement for those who try to come without a legal right to stay, and to put in place a faster process — I emphasize a “faster process” — to decide a claim of asylum, someone who says, “I’m coming because I’m escaping oppression.” Well, there’s got to be a way to determine that much quicker for people who are credibly seeking protection from persecution.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... n%3B%20and

#2
President Biden has issued the following immigration-related Executive Orders (EOs) and administrative policy changes since his first day in office:

Proclamation on Ending Discriminatory Bans on Entry to The United States – January 20, 2021

Executive Order on the Revision of Civil Immigration Enforcement Policies and Priorities – January 20, 2021
Preserving and Fortifying Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) – January 20, 2021

Proclamation on the Termination Of Emergency With Respect To The Southern Border Of The United States And Redirection Of Funds Diverted To Border Wall Construction – January 20, 2021

Executive Order on Ensuring a Lawful and Accurate Enumeration and Apportionment Pursuant to the Decennial Census – January 20, 2021

Memorandum Reinstating Deferred Enforced Departure for Liberians – January 20, 2021
US Citizenship Act of 2021

DHS Statement on the Suspension of New Enrollments in the Migrant Protection Protocols Program – January 20, 2021

Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Non-Immigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus Disease – January 25, 2021

Executive Order on Creating a Comprehensive Regional Framework to Address the Causes of Migration, to Manage Migration Throughout North and Central America, and to Provide Safe and Orderly Processing of Asylum Seekers at the United States Border – February 2, 2021

Executive Order on Restoring Faith in Our Legal Immigration Systems and Strengthening Integration and Inclusion Efforts for New American – February 2, 2021

https://cmsny.org/biden-immigration-exe ... nd%20Yemen.
there are more, but these seem the most relevant

#3 More:
Key facts about U.S. immigration policies and Biden’s proposed changes
BY JENS MANUEL KROGSTAD AND ANA GONZALEZ-BARRERA

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... d-changes/

Since President Joe Biden took office in January 2021, his administration has acted on a number of fronts to reverse Trump-era restrictions on immigration to the United States. The steps include plans to boost refugee admissions, preserving deportation relief for unauthorized immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and not enforcing the “public charge” rule that denies green cards to immigrants who might use public benefits like Medicaid.

Biden has also lifted restrictions established early in the coronavirus pandemic that drastically reduced the number of visas issued to immigrants. The number of people who received a green card declined from about 240,000 in the second quarter of the 2020 fiscal year (January to March) to about 79,000 in the third quarter (April to June). By comparison, in the third quarter of fiscal 2019, nearly 266,000 people received a green card.

Biden’s biggest immigration proposal to date would allow more new immigrants into the U.S. while giving millions of unauthorized immigrants who are already in the country a pathway to legal status. The expansive legislation would create an eight-year path to citizenship for the nation’s estimated 10.5 million unauthorized immigrants, update the existing family-based immigration system, revise employment-based visa rules and increase the number of diversity visas. By contrast, President Donald Trump’s administration sought to restrict legal immigration in a variety of ways, including through legislation that would have overhauled the nation’s legal immigration system by sharply reducing family-based immigration.

are those enough words and actions, Duk?
bastante para hoy...??

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=235685&p=5290481&hilit=Executive+order#p5290481

[Pack Rat]

I hereby promote you to Lord of the copy/paste.

Trying to bring life from death...and your point is?

[jusplay4fun]

I hereby promote you to Lord of the copy/paste.

Trying to bring life from death...and your point is?

And AGAIN, you miss the point. I was asked by Duk to prove that the actions and words of the current President, Biden, that HE CAUSED the current crises at the Border. I did, and documented that very well. Hence, I copied and pasted LOTS. Of course, that is what is needed to PROVE my point. This is something you FAIL to grasp, apparently, since you do this so infrequently.

Were you going to take my word for it? If so, merely look at the TITLE of this thread. If not, READ ALL that I posted from reliable sources, including the White House briefings. THEREFORE, Biden caused the current crises.

QED

[Pack Rat]

The real truth must be hard for you to swallow.

Pass the fukn Border Security Bill!

[jusplay4fun]

The real truth must be hard for you to swallow.

Pass the fukn Border Security Bill!

The one that merely spends more money on current policy? The one that continue to hand out "Get into the USA FREE" cards? Again, you MISS the point. You sound like you think this bill is the SOLUTION to all problems at the Border. You are sadly mistaken, AGAIN, p-rat.

btw: fukn must be your FAVORITE word, since you use it so often. Do you know any more adjectives? Seems doubtful.

btw2: You swallow TOO MUCH and too often, too.

btw3: Let Biden take and issue some Executive Orders NOW, that he CAN, IF HE is so concerned about the Border Crises.

Now, let me copy and paste facts and not merely scream shrill opinions:

What This Bill Would Do
A “Border Emergency Authority” Adding a New, Restrictive, and Opaque Process until Border Crossings Reach Very Low Levels

The “trigger” authority—called the “Border Emergency Authority”—would enable the administration to summarily deport migrants who enter between ports of entry without permitting them to apply for asylum.

The new emergency authority could be activated if border “encounters” reach a daily average of 4,000 over a period of seven days and would become mandatory once border encounters reach over 5,000 over a period of seven days or 8,500 over a single calendar day. However, there are several other rules governing the use of the emergency authority, rendering it much less straightforward than the simple mathematics of crossings (for example, the so-called “discretionary” authority at the 4,000/day level would in fact be mandatory for the first 90 days at that level after passage). In addition, the bill defines “encounters” to exclude apprehensions of unaccompanied migrant children.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/analysis-senate-border-bill#:~:text=What%20This%20Bill%20Would%20Do&text=The%20%E2%80%9Ctrigger%E2%80%9D%20authority%E2%80%94called,them%20to%20apply%20for%20asylum.

Notice the wording: "would enable the administration" and DOES NOT REQUIRE the Administration to act. Based on the Biden-Harris Administration inactions so far, this is NOT a solution and does not address many issues of the crises.

and more, from the same source, and YES, more copy and paste (as opposed to your OPINIONS, that are essentially WORTHLESS).

its positive steps in this direction are smothered by a new “emergency authority” that repeats mistakes made by the Trump and Biden administrations: making protection much less available for those in need, while failing to send a clear message to future arrivals.
(...)

Notably, this bill would not stop anyone from being allowed to set foot on U.S. soil. It would not, therefore, do anything to bring down “the numbers” on its own. The bill’s proponents hope instead that it will reduce the number of people who are allowed to stay in the U.S. outside of immigration custody, and therefore, through word of mouth, reduce the number of people trying to come to begin with.

QED #2

[Pack Rat]

More nonsense from our MAGA Queen.