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Ecological footprint

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How many planets?

 
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Postby got tonkaed on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:11 pm

Harijan wrote:I do not disagree, but corporations are driven by the need to be profitable, and at some point non-consumption business models are more profitable that consumption business models. When we hit that point (like what is currently happening in the energy industry) then the industry shifts to net-zero consumption. We cannot say corporations are greedy profit whores and then ignore the logical conclusion that sooner or later profit whores will shun consumption because it is too expensive.



i dont disagree with this, but non consumption models are necesarily driven by opposition to current models, because many of things arent necesarily easy to spot. I mean yes if you use things indefinently bad things are going to happen, but thats not specific enough. these models will only be generated if its assumed the potential profit from them in the long run will be beneficial because shareholders will in the long run not take possiblity of lost profits over possiblity of new profits gained.

The reason why alternative fuels are being discussed so much is because companies are figuring out they can corner the market if they get on to them first and because there is enough of a public understanding that something must be done. Companies still wouldnt make the jump if they werent finding profits in the new ventures though. Jobs at the top just arent that secure to make long range thikning profitable without some assurance of financial windfall.
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Postby Harijan on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:28 pm

The most promising new energy companies are not publicly traded. Shareholders are in it for the long-haul. Zero-consumption companies are no longer a future "if" question, they are a future "when" question. A company that consumes less will always have a competitive advantage over a company that consumes more. A company that consumes less will always be the better business model. Complex investors know this and CEOs know this.

The idea that all CEOs are only care about how the company will look while they run the show is largely false. Most CEOs know that it is their job to maintain the long-term profitibilty of the company. If this were not true then the life-span of corporations would be measured in years, not decades.

Our economy has simply been too profitable and too easy to force companies to net-zero consumption level of competition until recently. It has little to do with social issues or corporate concious, net-zero consuption is just smart business.
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Postby got tonkaed on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:46 pm

Harijan wrote:The most promising new energy companies are not publicly traded. Shareholders are in it for the long-haul. Zero-consumption companies are no longer a future "if" question, they are a future "when" question. A company that consumes less will always have a competitive advantage over a company that consumes more. A company that consumes less will always be the better business model. Complex investors know this and CEOs know this.

The idea that all CEOs are only care about how the company will look while they run the show is largely false. Most CEOs know that it is their job to maintain the long-term profitibilty of the company. If this were not true then the life-span of corporations would be measured in years, not decades.

Our economy has simply been too profitable and too easy to force companies to net-zero consumption level of competition until recently. It has little to do with social issues or corporate concious, net-zero consuption is just smart business.


i dont really disagree with anything in the first paragraph. Companies wouldnt be moving to consume less and run zero-consumption plans if they werent profitable and enticing. It is very smart business to do so, Texas insturments redid one of their buildings to run on less consumption and they are saving a bunch of money by doing it.

I agree that ceos need to look long term, but it is always going to be secondary to the here and now. Investors are reasonable to a point, but CEO's arent going to make those decisions unless they are compelled ot think they have security to do so. I dont think its as black and white as i may have portrayed it, but i think its closer to black than the grey thatd you are seemingly offering. Its not that i disagre much, just a little bit.

I think the social issues and corporate conciousness drive all things in the economy. Without either, you get no innovation which has to try to ancipate and respond to changes that occur in society. many around here would argue that if social issues or corporate conciousness didnt have a role, you were talking about communism. People didnt think net zero consumption was smart 2 decades ago. It probably still was just as smart business wise then, we just didnt have the technological expertise.
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Postby Harijan on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:37 am

I agree, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle ground between our arguments. It is an exciting time to be young and in business. I think we are approaching the brink of another economic revolution.
1. Industrial revolution - pretty much done in 1st world countries
2. Technology revolution - winding down in 1st world countries
3. Conservation revolution - just beginnning in 1st world countries.

The real question is what will drive the conservation revolution. In the industrial revolution it was the motor/engine. In the technology revolution it was the microchip. I really don't know what the drive will be. If I had to guess I would say the solar cell.
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Postby got tonkaed on Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:31 am

Harijan wrote:I agree, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle ground between our arguments. It is an exciting time to be young and in business. I think we are approaching the brink of another economic revolution.
1. Industrial revolution - pretty much done in 1st world countries
2. Technology revolution - winding down in 1st world countries
3. Conservation revolution - just beginnning in 1st world countries.

The real question is what will drive the conservation revolution. In the industrial revolution it was the motor/engine. In the technology revolution it was the microchip. I really don't know what the drive will be. If I had to guess I would say the solar cell.


i would agree it would be a very exciting time to be innovating....the only problem i have with most of alternative fuel processes right now is they are incredibly ineffcient. The one solar car that was put out, i cant remember by who, they claimed they had to charge the panels for a week i think for one car. Granted it went about 500 miles before it had to refill, but frankly we need to find ways to make the panels smaller and better at what they do.

I did see a cool thing about sustainable villages being built in china. If those work that might be something to look out for in the near future.
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Postby Skittles! on Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:39 am

If everyone lived like you, we would need 2.7 planets.

World World World
Global hectares required to sustain your lifestyle
5.1 global hectares

Food 3.1
Transport 0.4
Shelter 0.6
Goods/services 1.1
Total 5.1

Oh shit :/
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:47 pm

2.9, but some of the termenology was hard to guess at, I'm no accustomed to metric
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Postby Balsiefen on Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:55 pm

2.6
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Postby Norse on Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:57 pm

7.9...

Fook sake, in order to get a reasonable score I would need to be a Vegan communist that never drove a car...Bah! load of nonsense.
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:58 pm

Norse wrote:7.9...

Fook sake, in order to get a reasonable score I would need to be a Vegan communist that never drove a car...Bah! load of nonsense.


come on man, youve got to be kidding, you would have to put down like the worst possilbe option for all of those to get that score. Even you are probably not capable of that sir.
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Postby Norse on Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:59 pm

got tonkaed wrote:
Norse wrote:7.9...

Fook sake, in order to get a reasonable score I would need to be a Vegan communist that never drove a car...Bah! load of nonsense.


come on man, youve got to be kidding, you would have to put down like the worst possilbe option for all of those to get that score. Even you are probably not capable of that sir.


I do a lot of driving, and always eat meat, so I guess that is what drove my score up, sir.
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:00 pm

Norse wrote:
got tonkaed wrote:
Norse wrote:7.9...

Fook sake, in order to get a reasonable score I would need to be a Vegan communist that never drove a car...Bah! load of nonsense.


come on man, youve got to be kidding, you would have to put down like the worst possilbe option for all of those to get that score. Even you are probably not capable of that sir.


I do a lot of driving, and always eat meat, so I guess that is what drove my score up, sir.


you would have to hit the cow with your car during a 24 hour race to put up those kind of numbers.
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Postby Norse on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:02 pm

I would have to hit down 7.9 people....more acxcuratley, and hope everyone else who wants to live does the same.
b.k. barunt wrote:Snorri's like one of those fufu dogs who get all excited and dance around pissing on themself.

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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:05 pm

Norse wrote:I would have to hit down 7.9 people....more acxcuratley, and hope everyone else who wants to live does the same.


in an unrelated story, norse i feel you have me pegged wrong. Just because you think im a bleeding heart pinko wuss and i think your a misguided nationalistic pig, your one of my favorite people on these boards. Just thought id clear that up.
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Postby Norse on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:10 pm

got tonkaed wrote:
Norse wrote:I would have to hit down 7.9 people....more acxcuratley, and hope everyone else who wants to live does the same.


in an unrelated story, norse i feel you have me pegged wrong. Just because you think im a bleeding heart pinko wuss and i think your a misguided nationalistic pig, your one of my favorite people on these boards. Just thought id clear that up.


hehe, lets not start sucking each other off just yet. :lol:

Right back at ya.
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Postby duday53 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:17 pm

5.6 :oops:
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Postby misterman10 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:37 pm

these results are crap...
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Postby 0ojakeo0 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:41 pm

If everyone lived like you, we would need 2.0 planets.
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Postby AlgyTaylor on Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:51 pm

1.5 :(
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Postby Iliad on Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:13 pm

misterman10 wrote:these results are crap...

they are true.
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