Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:54 am

If I had been restricted to the "traditional" Risk-like games described above, I never would have become premium.

Most of you who have posted here don't like or play the unusual maps and that is why you feel they are "more complex" or harder. It is all a matter of opinion. I think it mostly comes down to whether you are willing to read the legends, etc. Right now, CC offers something for a wide range of players and attracts some of EACH to become premium.

This will just mean more people who like traditional Risk games will join. It won't limit others. And, while ANY reduction of players will reduce deadbeating, ... there are better ways to counter that problem!

PS how did I get to be the thread originator here? I was responding to someone else...
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby danalan on Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:01 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:If I had been restricted to the "traditional" Risk-like games described above, I never would have become premium.

Most of you who have posted here don't like or play the unusual maps and that is why you feel they are "more complex" or harder. It is all a matter of opinion. I think it mostly comes down to whether you are willing to read the legends, etc. Right now, CC offers something for a wide range of players and attracts some of EACH to become premium.

This will just mean more people who like traditional Risk games will join. It won't limit others. And, while ANY reduction of players will reduce deadbeating, ... there are better ways to counter that problem!


Once again, the proposal is not to limit map choices for free players, or to limit access or segregate 'unusual' maps. The proposal is to limit NEW players to a suite of maps that will allow them to better experience the site. I love the complex, unusual, and strategic maps. I play them all, and with a variety of players.

However new players are not well served by having to study difficult rules, deal with unknown odds, or decipher unusual border arrangements. They should be able to play at a somewhat competitive level right away. Limiting the maps available to them is a simple way to do this. With the list of maps I've given, you cannot claim they won't have variety. After 5 games, or whatever standard is decided upon, they get access to all the maps.

Again, it only limits new players -- those with a big ? for rank. Once you have a rank, even it it's cook, you get access to all maps. My contention is that keeping things a little simpler for new players will make them more likely to stay.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:58 am

limiting maps for new players is ridiculous.
limiting game types for new players is also ridiculous.

i played risk for over 10 years before i came to this site and in 10 years i played tons of variations of the risk game. variations that were more or less complex. had i been limited when i came here i would have probably left in a matter of days as i was already bored with classic type gameplay.

yes i agree that noobs and complex maps/ weird game settings don't mix very well but rather than limiting their options it's better to implement a system where maps are classified into simple (classic) moderate (a few gameplay twists) and complex (many weird things)
and each category has a description that warns people what they will face.

then if a noob really wants to play a complex map he'll know what he's getting into
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby hwhrhett on Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:24 am

DiM wrote:limiting maps for new players is ridiculous.
limiting game types for new players is also ridiculous.

i played risk for over 10 years before i came to this site and in 10 years i played tons of variations of the risk game. variations that were more or less complex. had i been limited when i came here i would have probably left in a matter of days as i was already bored with classic type gameplay.

yes i agree that noobs and complex maps/ weird game settings don't mix very well but rather than limiting their options it's better to implement a system where maps are classified into simple (classic) moderate (a few gameplay twists) and complex (many weird things)
and each category has a description that warns people what they will face.

then if a noob really wants to play a complex map he'll know what he's getting into


yes, i agree.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:37 pm

It's not a bad idea.
I feel that it may discourage new players though,
I guess I could be completely wrong and that having to "unlock" new maps would encourage new players to keep playing.
I'm undecided and proud of it :D
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby ctgottapee on Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:14 am

it really is not ridiculous

while some such as yourself may be limited for a few games, whoop-ee, we are talking like 5-10 games which is nothing
it is only a limit, there are plenty of maps on the limited list for the first few games to keep any pro occupied

yes some of you can drive very fast and do it safely, but many people can not and cause a bit of carnage for everyone else. so until you take a few practice laps, you have to observe a simple speed limit. it is not an unfamiliar concept and it doesn't penalize any newb who'll have more than enough maps to play on

this tactic would potentially also help to cut down on multis on some maps

DiM wrote:limiting maps for new players is ridiculous.
limiting game types for new players is also ridiculous.

i played risk for over 10 years before i came to this site and in 10 years i played tons of variations of the risk game. variations that were more or less complex. had i been limited when i came here i would have probably left in a matter of days as i was already bored with classic type gameplay.

yes i agree that noobs and complex maps/ weird game settings don't mix very well but rather than limiting their options it's better to implement a system where maps are classified into simple (classic) moderate (a few gameplay twists) and complex (many weird things)
and each category has a description that warns people what they will face.

then if a noob really wants to play a complex map he'll know what he's getting into
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby chipv on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:01 am

DiM wrote:yes i agree that noobs and complex maps/ weird game settings don't mix very well but rather than limiting their options it's better to implement a system where maps are classified into simple (classic) moderate (a few gameplay twists) and complex (many weird things)
and each category has a description that warns people what they will face.

then if a noob really wants to play a complex map he'll know what he's getting into


Forget it. We already tried setting up a complexity system but it was completely misunderstood and any complexity list will have mapmakers bitching about it until it is removed:

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=62255

It is actually running in the Games Filter script (I am sure most of the people in that thread never ran it) however and you can configure your own list.

It doesn't actually matter how you do it whether using criteria or straightforward voting, there is always going to be bias and there is always going to be bitching. The advantage in your suggestion of using voting is that there is less likelihood of the system being hopelessly misunderstood despite several attempts at explanations by several people (for example a lot of people could not understand the levels of complexity which is an abstract concept for the script.

Limiting new players by maps is likely to put experts like you off but might retain the attention of others wishing to see the rest of the maps.
The system doesn't have to make it hard to expose new maps.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby BaldAdonis on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:19 am

Why is this idea treated with so much hostility? It's the same as the team game restriction. If you haven't finished 5 games, then you can't join the game, because you'll probably mess it up for everyone else playing. It doesn't matter that in some special cases (ie. everyone who still plays here), the player could have figured out the map. Most players couldn't, and wouldn't know what they're getting into. Plus there's a good chance they'll deadbeat. They'll only have to finish 5 games to have full access to maps, it's not like they only get Classic for the first year.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby ctgottapee on Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:08 am

the hostility seems to come from people refusing to step out of their own role and trying to experience the game as other types of players might

a good point was brought up about the rules of complexity for such a thing, it does seem like it would be pretty difficult to develop any complex standard to fit all moans and groans

still i don't see why something simple as not being able to join any maps except classic and world 2.0 for the first 5 games would be a problem. as noted it could even work as an enticement for some. the maps wouldn't be hidden, just not joinable. if you can't finish 5 games on a basic map, are you really a player that even warrants the need to be on other maps fucking everything up.

then again, this scenario seems to be trying to solve the bigger problem of not having score/rank minimum or maximum requirements to join games. if you can keep out the extremes, newbs in this case, then you can let them roll any map they want with other newbs no problem.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players

Postby Skiman on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:40 am

Limiting maps - even for a brief period - for new players is a brilliant idea. It would really help with point farming, for one thing, and would encourage players to learn the basics before getting thrown into a a complex, freestyle map on fog.

Also, I'd support a warning flag for players joining freestyle games that says something about the use of plug-ins and the dis-advantage you'd be under if you didn't use them...so informed decisions can be made
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

Postby lackattack on Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:48 pm

I ran some statistics on 100,000 players and broke down game options by how they affect the chances a new recruit making their 1st promotion if it played it in its first ever game.

Some maps like USA had a high success rate over 50%, others like Waterloo and Circus Maximus had success rates as low as 18%.

I added new recruit join filters on all maps with success rates below 40% (that means new recruits can still join games on 47 maps :geek: )

I also filtered out some other game options that significantly lower the chance of new recruits making their promotion. See Instructions -> Score, Ranking and Medals for more details.

This should improve the success rate and new recruit experience (for most, as it is based on stats) and cut down on the "newbie farming" going on.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

Postby gameplayer on Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:59 pm

lackattack wrote:I ran some statistics on 100,000 players and broke down game options by how they affect the chances a new recruit making their 1st promotion if it played it in its first ever game.

Some maps like USA had a high success rate over 50%, others like Waterloo and Circus Maximus had success rates as low as 18%.

I added new recruit join filters on all maps with success rates below 40% (that means new recruits can still join games on 47 maps :geek: )

I also filtered out some other game options that significantly lower the chance of new recruits making their promotion. See Instructions -> Score, Ranking and Medals for more details.

This should improve the success rate and new recruit experience (for most, as it is based on stats) and cut down on the "newbie farming" going on.

For a while with team games, they were hidden in a join a game but not hidden in Game Finder. Are these games physically banned from new recruits, or are they only hidden from them? For example, if I was a new recruit and on Player X's profile, could I click Find all games with Player X and see them there? Or are they completely hidden from new recruits?
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

Postby the.killing.44 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:00 pm

Nice.
lack, any insight on why you were a ? for a bit?
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

Postby wcaclimbing on Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:04 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:Nice.
lack, any insight on why you were a ? for a bit?


probably so he could test things and make sure the correct maps were blocked.
He probably set himself to be a ? so he could make sure everything works correctly.
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Re: Limit Maps Available for New Players [Done]

Postby Optimus Prime on Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:27 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:Nice.
lack, any insight on why you were a ? for a bit?


probably so he could test things and make sure the correct maps were blocked.
He probably set himself to be a ? so he could make sure everything works correctly.

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good reason.
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