Moderator: Cartographers
Jippd wrote:I don't know if you had to eliminate the towns bonus completely. Changing it to +1 for every 6 would fix the 1 v 1 issue. Though as others have pointed out there are a lot of maps that are unfair for 1 v 1.
Jippd wrote:But keeping it +1 for every 6 might make say 3 player or 4 player games more interesting for example.
chapcrap wrote:I think that having all of the territories start with 2 on them, neutrals included, would help to solve some problems.
Oneyed wrote:Jippd wrote:But keeping it +1 for every 6 might make say 3 player or 4 player games more interesting for example.
this should works. I also want to eliminate 1 v 1 game problems. so ones more is here question - could be in 1 v 1 game codded more neutrals as in other games?
we have 32 territories for deploying. if in 1 v 1 game will each player starts with 12 territories this gives us 11 neutrals. if Town bonus will be +1 for 6, 12 territories will give to each player +1. I do not think there will be situation when one player will starts with 12 towns and no one region... ian?
iancanton wrote:Oneyed wrote:Jippd wrote:But keeping it +1 for every 6 might make say 3 player or 4 player games more interesting for example.
this should works. I also want to eliminate 1 v 1 game problems. so ones more is here question - could be in 1 v 1 game codded more neutrals as in other games?
we have 32 territories for deploying. if in 1 v 1 game will each player starts with 12 territories this gives us 11 neutrals. if Town bonus will be +1 for 6, 12 territories will give to each player +1. I do not think there will be situation when one player will starts with 12 towns and no one region... ian?
by default, each 1v1 game starts with each player having 10 territories, with 12 random neutrals and 3 fixed neutrals. if u want to have +1 for holding 6 towns, then it is possible to code the 22 towns (excluding brno) as underlying neutral start positions and let each player have maximum 5 positions. if u do this, then 1v1 games will start with each player having exactly 5 towns and 3 coloured regions, with 13 neutral towns (including brno), 4 neutral regions and 2 neutral capitals.
unlike the two capitals, brno has no special bonus of its own, so why does it always start neutral? why not let it be a normal town? or are u planning to use brno as a special part of the town bonus?
ian.
nolefan5311 wrote:I will post this info just for your review oneyed (this is just 1v1):
Town Bonus +1 for 4 - chances of dropping at least 4 towns is 99.7%. Chances of dropping 8 towns is 31.02%
Town Bonus +1 for 5 - chances of dropping at least 5 towns is 97.32%. Chances of dropping 10 towns is 1%.
Town Bonus for +1 for 6 - chances of dropping at least 6 towns is 87.03%. Chances of dropping 12 (all of your starting territories for a +2) is miniscule.
I agree with ian in that eliminating the town bonus would probably be the best option to make the gameplay more balanced. Increasing it to 5 would significantly lower the chances of a player dropping a +2, but the chances of dropping a +1 are so high (and the chances of dropping 7 is over 62%), that the first player could easily get the 8th town on his first turn for the +2 while also knocking down his opponents chances of getting the +2. That's a longwinded way of saying I think getting rid of the town bonus is the best bet.
iancanton wrote:by default, each 1v1 game starts with each player having 10 territories, with 12 random neutrals and 3 fixed neutrals. if u want to have +1 for holding 6 towns, then it is possible to code the 22 towns (excluding brno) as underlying neutral start positions and let each player have maximum 5 positions. if u do this, then 1v1 games will start with each player having exactly 5 towns and 3 coloured regions, with 13 neutral towns (including brno), 4 neutral regions and 2 neutral capitals.
unlike the two capitals, brno has no special bonus of its own, so why does it always start neutral? why not let it be a normal town? or are u planning to use brno as a special part of the town bonus?
ian.
Jippd wrote:BRNO I believe is neutral because it connects the capitals.
As far as what you suggested about the underlying neutral start positions to code the towns...what does that mean? Just make some of the towns permanent neutrals?
Oneyed wrote:nolefan5311 wrote:I will post this info just for your review oneyed (this is just 1v1):
Town Bonus +1 for 4 - chances of dropping at least 4 towns is 99.7%. Chances of dropping 8 towns is 31.02%
Town Bonus +1 for 5 - chances of dropping at least 5 towns is 97.32%. Chances of dropping 10 towns is 1%.
Town Bonus for +1 for 6 - chances of dropping at least 6 towns is 87.03%. Chances of dropping 12 (all of your starting territories for a +2) is miniscule.
I agree with ian in that eliminating the town bonus would probably be the best option to make the gameplay more balanced. Increasing it to 5 would significantly lower the chances of a player dropping a +2, but the chances of dropping a +1 are so high (and the chances of dropping 7 is over 62%), that the first player could easily get the 8th town on his first turn for the +2 while also knocking down his opponents chances of getting the +2. That's a longwinded way of saying I think getting rid of the town bonus is the best bet.
I can not see any problem with +2 for Town bonus from start when Town bonus will looks +1 for 6 towns. and also +1 for Town bonus in 1 v 1 game is eliminated if I good understand ian´s suggestion below. in 1 v 1 game each player starts with 10 regions.iancanton wrote:by default, each 1v1 game starts with each player having 10 territories, with 12 random neutrals and 3 fixed neutrals. if u want to have +1 for holding 6 towns, then it is possible to code the 22 towns (excluding brno) as underlying neutral start positions and let each player have maximum 5 positions. if u do this, then 1v1 games will start with each player having exactly 5 towns and 3 coloured regions, with 13 neutral towns (including brno), 4 neutral regions and 2 neutral capitals.
unlike the two capitals, brno has no special bonus of its own, so why does it always start neutral? why not let it be a normal town? or are u planning to use brno as a special part of the town bonus?
ian.
so ian, when this is possible to code, do you still against Town bonus? also if I changed it to +1 for 6 towns, also if we code that each player in 1 v 1 game starts with only 5 towns?Jippd wrote:BRNO I believe is neutral because it connects the capitals.
As far as what you suggested about the underlying neutral start positions to code the towns...what does that mean? Just make some of the towns permanent neutrals?
Jippd is right. Brno is permanent neutral because it connects capitals. there are 4 positions from where can be Praha assaulted directly and 4 from where can be Bratislava assaulted directly. if Brno will be held by any player from start it gives him big advantage because this player will has 2 positions from where can be any of capitals assaulted.
thanks for help, guys
Oneyed
nolefan5311 wrote:I do need to ask whats the point of having that bonus if both players drop it...
nolefan5311 wrote:all that does is allow the first player to drop the extra troop and hit the other players bonus before he can collect it. With an 87% chance of dropping a +1, that's going to be the case in a lot of games.
nolefan5311 wrote:I will let ian respond to his post, but what he's talking about is dropping the start positions from 10 to 8. Is that something you want to do?
nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I like the idea of +2 for 10 towns (leave out the +1 altogether). There is a 1% chance that a player drops 10 towns (or all of his starting positions), which is tiny, but that provides a nice incentive to work towards. Just my opinion.
Oneyed wrote:nolefan5311 wrote:I do need to ask whats the point of having that bonus if both players drop it...
because I like maps with more different bonuses. forgot the 1 v 1 game problem for now...
Oneyed wrote:nolefan5311 wrote:
all that does is allow the first player to drop the extra troop and hit the other players bonus before he can collect it. With an 87% chance of dropping a +1, that's going to be the case in a lot of games.
...we still talking about 1 v 1 game. only here would this problem become, but I think in other games this bonus will be interesting for players.
Oneyed wrote:nolefan5311 wrote:I will let ian respond to his post, but what he's talking about is dropping the start positions from 10 to 8. Is that something you want to do?
I do not know, because I do not know anything about xml. if there will be codded some "permanent" starting positions everything looks solved. the 8 territories bordering with capitals could be starting positions:
towns: Plzeň, Kladno, Benešov, Trenčín, Nitra, Komárno and regions: StČK, ZSK. the rest of map could be codded as random deployed...
Oneyed wrote:nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I like the idea of +2 for 10 towns (leave out the +1 altogether). There is a 1% chance that a player drops 10 towns (or all of his starting positions), which is tiny, but that provides a nice incentive to work towards. Just my opinion.
+2 for 10? I am afraid in 8, 7, 6 players games it will be too hard to get any bonus. but I am fine go without Town bonus as is done in last version. btw, this is map about fragmentation, so now without common Town bonus all bonuses depending on fragmentation...
Oneyed
Jippd wrote:as others have pointed out there are a lot of maps that are unfair for 1 v 1.
iancanton wrote:if u want to have +1 for holding 6 towns, then it is possible to code the 22 towns (excluding brno) as underlying neutral start positions and let each player have maximum 5 positions. if u do this, then 1v1 games will start with each player having exactly 5 towns and 3 coloured regions, with 13 neutral towns (including brno), 4 neutral regions and 2 neutral capitals.
Jippd wrote:As far as what you suggested about the underlying neutral start positions to code the towns...what does that mean? Just make some of the towns permanent neutrals?
iancanton wrote:to be clear, there are not 8 start positions per player here. there are 5 start positions per player because it must be less than the number needed for the town bonus. each player starts with 5 coded start positions and 3 uncoded random regions.
ian.
nolefan5311 wrote:Without the town bonus the map is ready for the gameplay stamp.
nolefan5311 wrote:I can apply it now, and if you really want the town bonus we can continue working on it. If it doesn't work out, you can always fall back to the stamped version without the town bonus. Honestly, I do like the idea of the town bonus but we need to figure out a better probability
Jippd wrote:What do the graphics people thing is wrong with the map as it stands?
Flapcake wrote:Jippd wrote:What do the graphics people thing is wrong with the map as it stands?
That depend on the eyes that looks, maby you dont see any thing wrong, maby I dont and ohters, some do for sure and ohters just dont like it no matter what, thats what makes us different and by that we also got different opinions.
You dont go strait from draft to beta, the graphics need to have an overlook to recive the blue stamp, its the same process for all.
I think its a nice map, but this is how its done.
koontz1973 wrote:Your army circles have flat tops/bottoms and sides. Give them a slight feathering to get them more circular.
koontz1973 wrote:Your grey cities are just bland. Can you give them some slight noise and blur to give them some depth.
koontz1973 wrote:Around the edges where you have overlapping lines, they become darker. Look at the cities again. You can clearly see the darker parts where you have drawn twice in one point. Same goes for a few other places.
koontz1973 wrote:Some of the city/town names on the map (non playing part) are very easy to read while others are impossible to read. Can we get them all readable or get rid of the ones you cannot read.
koontz1973 wrote:Other than that, your good to go for the small map.
RedBaron0 wrote:First thing to look at I think is the text of the territories overlaping the borders, it blends a tad and the text would do well with either a soft glow or a little erasing of the border beneath the text.
RedBaron0 wrote:A different symbol or 'spot' for the kraj to help differentiate between the cities and the kraj.
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