[CL4] Clan League 4 - FINAL

[josko.ri]

For the record, CC3 thread (opened 18th March) right now has more wiews than CL4, opened 7 January (4,5Kvs4,3K) and more than double more number of comments (310vs145).

In addition, here are more clans signed up which means more potential spectators and commentators, and this is official CLA event while CC3 is not.

so, if CC3 can in half month get more wiews and double more posts than CL4 in 3 months, obviously something is not good with CL4. In my opinion that are rules and leadership, and I hope others recognize it.

*Point of my post is that CLA members recognize it, learn on past mistakes, and make much more quality project for CL5. If one person alone (Chuuuuck) can make quality project which remains without any doubt the most respected clan event, then I do not see why whole CLA team could not make it also.

You didn't count in the separate threads for divisions.

... Nor I counted separate threads for clan wars in CC3, do not mix separate threads with the main thread of the event.

And to be honest to whole delay of CL and the setup was such cause there were too many different opinions, this is compromise of them all.

Also you were by far the biggest reason for such delay in the setup of it all.

I was "reason" for delay, but good reason, because my+Masli's work which needed some time to make it quality (format suggestion) was finally accepted and majority of that format with little changes is used like final format of CL4. I do not mind having delay if final format was improved, if some good work was done, and it for sure was, according to majority of votes from CLA members that my+Masli's format suggestion get.

seems to me that josko is just doing his absolute best to try and stir things up as usual, making complaint after complaint about CL4, if he really hates it that much, maybe he should be in it. It's true that the vast majority of hang ups in starting CL4 were caused by Josko in the CLA never agreeing to a format, then stating he had one then never delivering on it.

Fault about my "never delivering format" was yours, I had asked numerous times to set up deadline for sending whole format suggestions. once when you had set up the final deadline (not my fault that it took months to set it up) I finished my format suggestion within the deadline. please do not hide your own bad organization of CLA behind my name.
You see, number of votes which my format suggestion got and number of votes which WPBRJ's got shows enough that I was not only making complaint after complaint, but was also doing quality job about making quality format, that CLA members recognized and gave majority of votes for my format suggestion. This format which we are playing now is almost the same like my format suggestion, and totally different from the one that WPBRJ suggested. Saying that I ONLY make complaint after complaint and did not do anything to try improve CL4, was complete disrespect to all time and ideas put into trying to make it as better as possible.

Now that RJ and DJ have been running CL4, and in my opinion have done an excellent job, every time i come in here there's another complaint from Josko. Just like in the CLA. There is already a discussion thread in the CLA for CL5, why can't Josko keep his complaint's/thoughts in that instead of always wasting our time in this thread?

I am not in CLA, so I cannot make complaint there. in public thread CL5 discussion is not opened. so this is right now the most relevant place where I CAN suggest my idea how to improve whole format for CL5. if everything is done excellent, then improving would not be needed.
so, first step in trying to improve anything is point out what is done bad. second step is suggest how it can be done better. I am doing both at the same time, and you call it "complain after complaint".
here are also some things that are done excellent, for example rule of using maximal 1 map, or whole graphics support of the event. but what is point in writing it is all done great supported with those smileys? when it is obvious that numerous rules are done with terrible decisions which kills competitive and fair play of the event? pointing out those terrible rules, and suggesting how to improve them is good way for having much better CL5 than it was/is CL4.

[benga]

From CLA:

Really sorry all about this, real life is so hard here right now that I cannot even take all my own turns, and especially not able to run so important thing for clan world like CL4. Masli is in the same real life shoes

After causing the delay, you backed down at the end.

There's thread opened in CLA forum for CL5 improvements.

[josko.ri]

From CLA:

Really sorry all about this, real life is so hard here right now that I cannot even take all my own turns, and especially not able to run so important thing for clan world like CL4. Masli is in the same real life shoes

After causing the delay, you backed down at the end.

There's thread opened in CLA forum for CL5 improvements.

Yes, unexpected real life circumstances happened simultaneously both to me and Masli after finishing format voting process. it can happen to anyone anytime and that is why in CLA it should be team of players, not person or 2.

Anyway, I see format used in CL4 is almost the same like my suggested format which had got majority of votes (some minor changes made by this CL team, which are not bad changes, just difference in opinion). so because of that I may say that all my work in CLA was not wasted, it is used to IMPROVE total CL4 format, which was bad in beginning (it is not only my opinion - CLA confirmed that opinion by giving low votes to other format and high votes to my format). as format is improved with my idea, then I do not mind delaying it a little. having quality format is much more important that starting it a month earlier, don't you think?

I would rather modify your statement to be it closer to truth: "After causing the format improvement, you backed down at the end"


and also, I would like to add fact from CLA which shows enough how WPBRJ is willing to work like team, and how much he is willing to be dictator and make all decisions by himself. There were 2 format suggestions, Masli+me and WPBRJ's. When WPBRJ saw that it will be more format suggestions than his own, he selfish deleted whole his format, so we could not use anything which was good in his format. from the other side, when hard time happened in my real life, I informed CLA that I wont be able to run CL4, but I left opened whole my format so whole CLA may use it or improve it or do whatever they wish with it. his opinion was like: "if I cannot run CL4, nobody will run it with using part of my work" and my opinion was like "Feel free to use whatever CLA think is good from my format suggestion"

[benga]

From CLA:

Really sorry all about this, real life is so hard here right now that I cannot even take all my own turns, and especially not able to run so important thing for clan world like CL4. Masli is in the same real life shoes

After causing the delay, you backed down at the end.

There's thread opened in CLA forum for CL5 improvements.

Yes, unexpected real life circumstances happened simultaneously both to me and Masli after finishing format voting process. it can happen to anyone anytime and that is why in CLA it should be team of players, not person or 2.

Anyway, I see format used in CL4 is almost the same like my suggested format which had got majority of votes (some minor changes made by this CL team, which are not bad changes, just difference in opinion). so because of that I may say that all my work in CLA was not wasted, it is used to IMPROVE total CL4 format, which was bad in beginning (it is not only my opinion - CLA confirmed that opinion by giving low votes to other format and high votes to my format). as format is improved with my idea, then I do not mind delaying it a little. having quality format is much more important that starting it a month earlier, don't you think?

I would rather modify your statement to be it closer to truth: "After causing the format improvement, you backed down at the end"

Ok, wasted a bit more of my time, but don't feel like sleeping anyway.

The current format is is just the phase 1 + initial format from WPBRJ.

And the intention of that format was to

Schedule is slated for the Season to start by mid to late October.

.

Meh too lazy to write on, this debate is not productive anyway.

Going to grab me one more drink.

[josko.ri]

The current format is is just the phase 1 + initial format from WPBRJ.

And the intention of that format was to

Schedule is slated for the Season to start by mid to late October.

.

nope, initial format from WPBRJ was direct elimination playoff after group phase.

elements which nobody's format had before I put it in my format suggestion:
1. phase 1, which will determine who will go into which Division in real season. noone format before mine had that suggestion
WPBRJ's suggestion was set up Divisions according to plain rank, not according to results from phase 1.
2. League type playoff, where half of clans are eliminated (after phase 2 and 3), and other half of clans continue competition in league style, not in playoff single elimination style. noone format before mine had that suggestion
WPBRJ's suggestion was elimination style playoff - direct knockout
3. possibility that the best placed second team (or more of them) also advance to Div 1, not only 1st placed teams. noone format before mine had that suggestion
WPBRJ's suggestion had every equal placing of every clan deserves equal treatment in later round

those 3 elements in CL4 are used from my format suggestion. WPBRJ had those 3 elements totally different suggested

4. my suggestion was that points earned carry on from phase 2 to phase 3 and to phase 4. that suggestion is not accepted

so you see, almost all elements of my format suggestion was used. if you disagree, check both suggestions in CLA, I am sure they are still there in topic. it is true that it caused delay, but more than one element of format is totally improved. with spending so much time to try improve it, and after that seeing some terrible rule decisions, I think I have right to public say what is not done well IMO. if I did not do anything to try improve CL4, then I would be quiet and would not say anything about how it is done. but as I put a lot of my time in trying (and successing) to make format improvement, I think I have totally right to also say my opinion when I see something is done really bad.

[chemefreak]

The format is the format. If your clan doesn't like it they can drop out. If you have issues with the current format and would like to influence future clan leagues, please contact your CLA member and make suggestions in that forum. Thanks.

Also, check out the Complaint Box HERE to post future comments. Thanks.

[WPBRJ]

there is a change in the rules starting in Phase 2

Settings

• No Freestyle
• No Speed
• No Manual
• No Nuclear
• No trench Warfare
• Unlimited is allowed with a limit of 2 games total per home set on trips and quad games only

maybe next year we will put it in if most want, but there out for this year

[The Voice]

there is a change in the rules starting in Phase 2

Settings

• No Freestyle
• No Speed
• No Manual
• No Nuclear
• No trench Warfare
• Unlimited is allowed with a limit of 2 games total per home set on trips and quad games only

maybe next year we will put them in if most want but there out the this year

Thank you for the quick decision/clarification.

[Leehar]

Lord Voldemort recently had Leg Surgery (Ankle/Knee) , so will be away from CC for a while.

Please put me in as first contact, and jj3044 as 2nd.
And if you could forward all pertinent details relating to such, we'd be imminently grateful.

[laughingcavalier]

I have added a randomly selected player from TSM's list to the quads game on FNNA, georgerx7di.

I pmd you & dj the new contact list a few weeks back & dj said I didn't need to post it any
where. Here's our list:

TSM

first contact: laughingcavalier
second contact: skillfull

laughingcavalier
Tisha
firstholliday
luckywar
ender_w99
Nate the Great
codeblue1018
Blind Date
skillfull
kratos644

This goes in the main thread. Not here.

[WPBRJ]

I have added a randomly selected player from TSM's list to the quads game on FNNA, georgerx7di.

I pmd you & dj the new contact list a few weeks back & dj said I didn't need to post it any
where. Here's our list:

TSM

first contact: laughingcavalier
second contact: skillfull

laughingcavalier
Tisha
firstholliday
luckywar
ender_w99
Nate the Great
codeblue1018
Blind Date
skillfull
kratos644

This goes in the main thread. Not here.

thnx LC already change and sent pms to all involved

[WPBRJ]

It’s a sad day in competitive clan world that we have to even do this let alone now, we have to come up with another rule on 1st contact behavior. After hundreds of PM’s 20 to 30 more hours out of DJ’s and my personal free time, away from our families we the TO’s have come to a decision on eddie2 and his clan AKA.

With all respect to eddies2 in the past he has withdrawn from a clan tournament to leave the tournament in total disarray due to his lack of understanding the overall picture and rules of the event. With this he has threatened to withdraw from this event several times now on several different occasions. He has laid down a set of stipulations that we just cannot adhere to and even if we did he states he still might at any time withdraw his clan from the event. This is totally unacceptable to DJ and me. If we allowed him to remain in the tournament and he did in the future remove his clan, this is not fair to anyone, it’s like holding the TO’s and the other 38 clans hostage unless we do what he wants and this is unacceptable.

I will say this publicly I am not completely innocent in this case I did lose my temper at one point and called Eddie2 a cancer on 2 different occasions after the fact of him withdrawing from the event. Saying this it was wrong of me and I do apologize to him and the rest of the league for losing my temper. This case has never been personal to me and I would have reacted the same no matter who was involved. I for the record do not hate eddie2 if anything I actually in a roundabout way like him and his passion about what he believes in, but he just does not know when to stop and take a step back.

Eddie2 has shown no respect for anyone who has not agreed with his thoughts and has shown no respect to anyone for that matter. His comments in the forum are unacceptable and full of false statements. He was unable to prove any of his clams of abuse; unfair treatment towards him or his clan, his claims of being baited, trolled, name calling and whatever else that he has accused mostly me of doing. There is no will to simply except responsibility for his very own lack of not following and doing the required work that needs to be done by the first contact. It was stated in public on many different occasions that he simply is too busy with real life to follow this event whether it be Easter, remodeling of the house, or even just plain old not doing any clan work he didn't even know he was in a 2nd phase. All we want to do is be able to behave in an adult manner and agree to discuss any issues calmly and diplomatically and this at this point seems to be impractical.

Eddie2 is in clear violation of these rules. When his clan signed up for the event they agreed to follow.

• Decisions of the League Directors and Division Director are final.
• Clans submitting entry to the league are deemed to have agreed to the rules.
• There is a no tolerance rule to insulting or bad behavior any issues brought to the League Directors' attention will be dealt with harshly in conjunction with Clan Directors.

Saying all of this DJ and I have come to a decision on the unfortunate events that have happened over the last week and that eddie2 is in clear violation of the rules. We are banning eddie2 for the remainder of this event and will bring this up in the CLA to see if there will be future banes put in place. This means that eddie2 will no longer be allowed to be first or second contact nor will he be allowed to participate in any CL4 games and if there are any medals are issued he would also be excluded from them as well.

As for AKA they will be allowed to continue, if they are able to come up with a first contact that is able to be responsible to follow the event properly and do the proper duties of a first contact. If they so choose to have someone volunteer, we as TO’s need to be informed by Tuesday night midnight CC time and it needs to be posted in this thread. There will be a zero tolerance if they so choose to stay in the event and if we as TO’s feel for one minute that they are being guided by eddie2 in the background or if they are starting trouble they will be removed instantly.

This decision was made by DJ and I, while we do seek advice from the CD’s at times and respect them immensely this was our decision and this was our decision alone to make.

I would just like to thank the 800 plus players and 38 clans that are in this event it has been a pleasure working with you all and if anyone was wondering I will not step out of my role as TO any time soon just because we had a problem with 2 players I will not give them that satisfaction.

With Warmest Regards

R.J.

[Keefie]

Very sad that it came to that, but by the sound of it there was no other possible outcome. I hope AKA are able to sort out their leadership for this Tourney and are able to continue.

[Great-Ollie]

WPBRJ, I think you guys have done a great job and i wish that all clans entered in this thing would understand that if you are going to bitch about the rules that are laid forward by the Volunteers running this, then just don't sign up period. I would hate to hazard a guess into how many hours these CL4 organizers have invested in this thing. Everyone should just shut up, accept that ALL clans have to follow the same set of rules and have some fun. We are having fun with this and support all the rules and the people who have put in so many hours to put this event on for us. Thanks guys!

[Qwert]

Well, i read everything,and consider that AKA get Informacion messages from CD, these is normal and fair decision from CD.
AKA need some serious reorganisation, to get some person who will be in position to be good contact betwene CD and AKA.

[freakns]

Well, i('ve) read everything(understood nothing),and consider(ing) that AKA get(got) Informacion(information) messages from CD, these(this) is normal and fair decision from CD.
AKA need some serious reorganisation(reorganization), to get some(a) person who will be in position to be good contact betwene(between) CD and AKA.

this maybe?

tough decision WPBRJ... but fair one i believe.

[Ickyketseddie]

WPBRJ, I think you guys have done a great job and i wish that all clans entered in this thing would understand that if you are going to bitch about the rules that are laid forward by the Volunteers running this, then just don't sign up period. I would hate to hazard a guess into how many hours these CL4 organizers have invested in this thing. Everyone should just shut up, accept that ALL clans have to follow the same set of rules and have some fun. We are having fun with this and support all the rules and the people who have put in so many hours to put this event on for us. Thanks guys!

I 100% agree with this. I think people are quick to overlook the 'Volunteer' element when nit-picking.

Thanks for all your hard work so far. I hope you don't get dis-couraged from running more in the future!

[Qwert]

Well, i('ve) read everything(understood nothing),and consider(ing) that AKA get(got) Informacion(information) messages from CD, these(this) is normal and fair decision from CD.
AKA need some serious reorganisation(reorganization), to get some(a) person who will be in position to be good contact betwene(between) CD and AKA.

this maybe?

tough decision WPBRJ... but fair one i believe.

freak this is qwenglish language, and now you mess with mine post!
What are name of your clan ? OPT?

[lynch5762]

Well, i('ve) read everything(understood nothing),and consider(ing) that AKA get(got) Informacion(information) messages from CD, these(this) is normal and fair decision from CD.
AKA need some serious reorganisation(reorganization), to get some(a) person who will be in position to be good contact betwene(between) CD and AKA.

this maybe?

tough decision WPBRJ... but fair one i believe.

freak this is qwenglish language, and now you mess with mine post!
What are name of your clan ? OPT?

qwert... you have officially made my day! I now know that all is right in the universe and that whenever I am feeling a little down..... I will just have to remember that we have qwenglish

[WPBRJ]

Well, i('ve) read everything(understood nothing),and consider(ing) that AKA get(got) Informacion(information) messages from CD, these(this) is normal and fair decision from CD.
AKA need some serious reorganisation(reorganization), to get some(a) person who will be in position to be good contact betwene(between) CD and AKA.

this maybe?

tough decision WPBRJ... but fair one i believe.

freak this is qwenglish language, and now you mess with mine post!
What are name of your clan ? OPT?

qwert... you have officially made my day! I now know that all is right in the universe and that whenever I am feeling a little down..... I will just have to remember that we have qwenglish

i have to say as bad as my day has been when i read this i chuckled and want to thank you Qwert that made my day

[Razorvich]

Greetings

I have been following the progress of the ongoing discussions regarding the CLA4 tournament, and as an member of the AKA leadership group, I must make my voice heard in respect to Clan AKA, and my own reputation.

Let it be known that I am a founding member of clan AKA and have no affiliation to clan TIME.

If it wasn't for some personal vendettas going on here....and i must be the first to admit, I do not know the whole background story of all this crap...and thats what is is....crap, I feel that an issue/situation, that could have been sorted within 24hrs, has now escalated, out of control, with loads of waited time, effort ,baits and bullshit to the position we all find ourselves here now.

however....

This means that eddie2 will no longer be allowed to be first or second contact or will he be allowed to participate in any CL4 games and if there are any medals are issued he would also be excluded from them as well.

I will have no hesitations or issues, in being the primary contact for AKA.

BUT, If eddie2 is unable to participate in AKA games within this tournament, then with the most humble respect and regret, we must withdraw

I suppose I already know the response....

There will be a zero tolerance if they so choose to stay in the event

and if we as TO’s feel for one minute that they are being guided by eddie2 in the background or if they are starting trouble they will be removed instantly.

If this last comment is directed to myself...think again mate, I am no blow-horn for eddie2, naive with my first few months on this site, yes, but no fool.

Please let me state I have the utmost respect for those who CHOOSE, to spend their spare time in organizing a mammoth event of this type, including the clan members of all clans that this will effect.

Such a pitty this issue has gone this far.


RAZ

[josko.ri]

I do not remember that organizers changed ANY their decision from the beginning (am I wrong, did they?) no matter that their decision sometimes got ZERO support posts in thread (like the one to put LEG over LHDD). So I do not think they will change this ruling neither nor any other decision/rule. That is why I think any type of "discussion" in public is anyway useless, like speaking with wall without reply.

It seems like ego of organizer are so big that public players may think whatever, suggest whatever, and give whatever arguments, decision will anyway be how organizer says and will never be changed. For me it seems like organizer is perfect person and his opinion is always the best, who cares what numerous other players from clan world think when we have such perfect organizer.

If someone does not agree with my statement, please give me ANY link where organizer changed ANY his decision after public discussion/support had proved that some rule/decision was not good. Of course, that link does not exist, obviously we have perfect organizer who always decide the best solution. It is not weird that players who want to contribute in clan world in any way loose their will for it, when they see how much influence public opinion and effort has on organizer's decisions.

eddie2 did not make any abuse like player, what he did wrong was done from his "AKA first contact" role. So removing him from AKA contact due to not doing his tasks well are ok, but removing him like a player is unfair, as he did not do any playing abuse.

[IR1SH ACE]

no idea what this pissin contest is all about and probably stems from shit before my time on this site but...

This means that eddie2 will no longer be allowed to be first or second contact or will he be allowed to participate in any CL4 games and if there are any medals are issued he would also be excluded from them as well.

this seems a bit harsh...I understand you dont want to deal with eddie2 anymore but to excluded him from been able to play in the games seems like your getting personal on this....you know AKA will withdraw in protest over this and I think that's what you would like them to do...

whats wrong with letting him play in the games?

[eddie2]

well the dissision is down to them but i will only say one short thing..

1)wrpbj you keep on blaming me for time leaving the cl2. this is incorect i left time 3 or 4 weeks before they dropped out. i left all my files for the games needed to be produced with teams to join i also left files with who plays well together and what maps they play so time had adiquite info to finish the last set. joshyboy did not step up and run his clan then 90 percent of time members joined aka because they new i put the time and effort into running time. this is no different to the pack great ollie left and several players followed him from his old clan. So blaming me for time dropping out is unfair.

2nd of all i did not include you in the discussion regarding the pm sent to other clans and not aka i contacted djteflon because he is the member who sent it. i purposely excluded you because we argue and start baiting flaming each other when ever we try talk normally.
onto this event i am willing to follow what razorvich has put down but am going to comment more on your post just now then that will be my last on the matter.

you state that your comments towards me were after everything was over that is inaccurate talks about the game creation were over before i even pmed djteflon i accepted the random games with angola that morning before pming dj. i then later on that day contacted him in regards to aka not getting a pm. which this convo then ended. you then started on me for involving a clan moderator in the convos, removing him from this. at this point you came out with the cancer comments (you will see in the game no i am about to post why i blew it out of proportion . this is what i found out my dad died of.)and this is the point it all errupted and i removed aka.. here is game chat from dj teflon that prooves i did not add you to the convo i was having.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=10942297
thats it for me eddie2 signing out.

[chemefreak]

Again. This thread is being closely monitored. If you want to complain about something do so in the complaint box thread in the main clan forum. Do not do it here. Thanks.