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_sabotage_ wrote:I spent 5 years 9 months and 21 days in jail for marijuana and only marijuana, 9 ounces. The government informed my family that I was arrested with 250 kg of heroin. Maximum security, where I spent nearly 3 years, was half drug cases. General population was also half drug cases. We find a problem and then build walls and systems around it. The systems become self serving, ie it makes no sense to destroy your income source, drugs, since this would put you out of business. It's much better to increase the flow so you can increase arrests and make your department stronger. When Anslinger first pushed for criminalization of marijuana, he falsified all the evidence surrounding it and the only scientific research was ignored, they actual told the doctor that his study of 40k people was of no value in the decision. Anslinger later moved to the UN and had marijuana outlawed internationally, incorporating its illegality as a fixed condition to join the WTO and UN council.
We now have 1,800,000 drug arrests each year. This is taxpayers money being used to build a police state against their own people. It amuses me to hear the discourse on the drug war. If marijuana and other drugs were legal, half of the American justice, police, prison and legal systems would be redundant. Do you really think that the government is going to allow freedom of choice in exchange for half of its muscle? Do you think that the president who is surrounded by this consortium of people whose livelihoods depend on destroying families and doing the governments dirty work is going to help my former cell mates who have long given up hope?
Phatscotty wrote:can't wait until the state becomes dependent on the tax revenues from pot. The money raised through taxation will most likely get linked to funding children's health or children's education, something that will guarantee little resistance to outrageous tax increases on the pot in the future.
"The tax is only getting raised on the pot heads. we don't give a shit about the stoners! raise the taxes!" Marijuana users will be repeatedly pitted against whatever cause the money funds, and the burnouts aren't going to get many sympathy votes from the legislature.
...and then they will really crack down on "unauthorized sales", because the state does not like competition. And then of course you will only be able to get it on certain days, during certain hours. Don't forget to factor in the cost of all the new regulation into the price of the product. The price stability you have known all your life will double in about 36 months,
Government legalization is the last thing you guys should want. What's the big problem with the way pot is treated now anyways? The price has went down, you can get the shit anywhere, there are no taxes.....sure, you can go to jail or get a ticket, but seriously, does anyone here know someone who is in jail for smoking a joint?
WTF????
The better answer, IMO, is to decriminalize marijuana. Get the government OUT of it. Basically, the exact same argument I have been making about marriage.
Nola_Lifer wrote:_sabotage_ wrote:I spent 5 years 9 months and 21 days in jail for marijuana and only marijuana, 9 ounces. The government informed my family that I was arrested with 250 kg of heroin. Maximum security, where I spent nearly 3 years, was half drug cases. General population was also half drug cases. We find a problem and then build walls and systems around it. The systems become self serving, ie it makes no sense to destroy your income source, drugs, since this would put you out of business. It's much better to increase the flow so you can increase arrests and make your department stronger. When Anslinger first pushed for criminalization of marijuana, he falsified all the evidence surrounding it and the only scientific research was ignored, they actual told the doctor that his study of 40k people was of no value in the decision. Anslinger later moved to the UN and had marijuana outlawed internationally, incorporating its illegality as a fixed condition to join the WTO and UN council.
We now have 1,800,000 drug arrests each year. This is taxpayers money being used to build a police state against their own people. It amuses me to hear the discourse on the drug war. If marijuana and other drugs were legal, half of the American justice, police, prison and legal systems would be redundant. Do you really think that the government is going to allow freedom of choice in exchange for half of its muscle? Do you think that the president who is surrounded by this consortium of people whose livelihoods depend on destroying families and doing the governments dirty work is going to help my former cell mates who have long given up hope?
Damn that is fucked up man...One of the biggest lobbyist groups against legalization are the police. As you say, if drugs were legal they would have a job.Phatscotty wrote:can't wait until the state becomes dependent on the tax revenues from pot. The money raised through taxation will most likely get linked to funding children's health or children's education, something that will guarantee little resistance to outrageous tax increases on the pot in the future.
"The tax is only getting raised on the pot heads. we don't give a shit about the stoners! raise the taxes!" Marijuana users will be repeatedly pitted against whatever cause the money funds, and the burnouts aren't going to get many sympathy votes from the legislature.
...and then they will really crack down on "unauthorized sales", because the state does not like competition. And then of course you will only be able to get it on certain days, during certain hours. Don't forget to factor in the cost of all the new regulation into the price of the product. The price stability you have known all your life will double in about 36 months,
Government legalization is the last thing you guys should want. What's the big problem with the way pot is treated now anyways? The price has went down, you can get the shit anywhere, there are no taxes.....sure, you can go to jail or get a ticket, but seriously, does anyone here know someone who is in jail for smoking a joint?
WTF????
The better answer, IMO, is to decriminalize marijuana. Get the government OUT of it. Basically, the exact same argument I have been making about marriage.
Do you have to post your ignorant comments in ever thread?
Baron von PWN wrote:The problem if you just decriminalize it, is you could still go to jail for producing it or police could fine you for possessing and then confiscate your pot.
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Baron von PWN wrote:The problem if you just decriminalize it, is you could still go to jail for producing it or police could fine you for possessing and then confiscate your pot.
Could you elaborate on this? It doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't decriminalization make it just like any other consumable item? I don't think the fuzz can arrest you for eating a cheeseburger, why would they be able to arrest you and confiscate your pot just for smoking or possessing it if it's not contraband?
-TG
Let the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.
Baron von PWN wrote:Decriminalizing the substance doesen't make it legal. It merely makes it less ilegal. For instance, possesion of pot is decriminalized in Canada. What this means is that if a cop sees me smoking a joint they can confiscate it and destroy it, maybe if they are feeling like an asshole fine me. Nothing will go on my record it stops there. That's just a small amount though.
Phatscotty wrote:just sayin, if it's legalized, prepare for prices to double
If it can't be decriminalized, then just keep it illegalLet the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.
_sabotage_ wrote:I spent 5 years 9 months and 21 days in jail for marijuana and only marijuana, 9 ounces. The government informed my family that I was arrested with 250 kg of heroin. Maximum security, where I spent nearly 3 years, was half drug cases. General population was also half drug cases. We find a problem and then build walls and systems around it. The systems become self serving, ie it makes no sense to destroy your income source, drugs, since this would put you out of business. It's much better to increase the flow so you can increase arrests and make your department stronger. When Anslinger first pushed for criminalization of marijuana, he falsified all the evidence surrounding it and the only scientific research was ignored, they actual told the doctor that his study of 40k people was of no value in the decision. Anslinger later moved to the UN and had marijuana outlawed internationally, incorporating its illegality as a fixed condition to join the WTO and UN council.
We now have 1,800,000 drug arrests each year. This is taxpayers money being used to build a police state against their own people. It amuses me to hear the discourse on the drug war. If marijuana and other drugs were legal, half of the American justice, police, prison and legal systems would be redundant. Do you really think that the government is going to allow freedom of choice in exchange for half of its muscle? Do you think that the president who is surrounded by this consortium of people whose livelihoods depend on destroying families and doing the governments dirty work is going to help my former cell mates who have long given up hope?
2dimes wrote:There's a reason it's called "weed". If it was legal it would probably be pretty easy to keep the price down.
2dimes wrote:I meant it would be growing by the river.
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Baron von PWN wrote:Decriminalizing the substance doesen't make it legal. It merely makes it less ilegal. For instance, possesion of pot is decriminalized in Canada. What this means is that if a cop sees me smoking a joint they can confiscate it and destroy it, maybe if they are feeling like an asshole fine me. Nothing will go on my record it stops there. That's just a small amount though.
That doesn't sound like decriminalization, then. One would expect from the structure of the word that it wouldn't be criminalized. I still fail to see the difference then between pot and a cheeseburger. Is there a specific law which states that cheeseburgers are legal? Because I'm then led to believe that a cop could confiscate my cheesburger, destroy (or stuff his fat face with it) and then fine me.
bah.
-TG
MegaProphet wrote:Phatscotty wrote:just sayin, if it's legalized, prepare for prices to double
If it can't be decriminalized, then just keep it illegalLet the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.
The tax is only 15% in Colorado and 25% in Washington I don't see how that would lead to prices doubling. In fact prices are projected to drop according to the marijuana lawyer who guest lectured for one of my classes. Which makes sense because the fact that anyone is allowed to grow up to 6 plants (in Colorado) will drive down the prices at retail shops
Nola_Lifer wrote:What scientist would you call in that cost 200k a year? This is a plant like any other crop that can be grown. Marijuana growers are as serious about their plants as tomato growers. There isn't that much regulation on growing a farm unless your trying to get certified organic. So scientist, laboratories and warehouses are out of the question unless you see marijuana grown on a large more corporate/industrial scale. Transportation won't be a problem either because of the proximity of growers to urban areas. Lets face it you can grow this shit in you back yard or in a closet at a very low cost. The people who will reap the most reward will be the hemp growers but this isn't what we are talking about.
The prices will most likely be the same, if anything they will drop. You will have lots of people treating this as a gold rush so more people will grow weed who weren't before, regardless of whether they smoke it or not. You will also see more dispensaries which probably won't be as regulated as most tobacco shops. You'll probably find that most tobacco shops will be ahead of the games due to the similar products.
crispybits wrote:If it's legalised it will become an industry like any other, but there will also be multiple entrants into the market.
So the downwards pressure on prices from competition, coupled with the downward pressures on cost of supply due to economies of scale, will (to an unknown extent) balance out the upward pressure on prices due to extra taxes. Whether that means the price ends up higher or lower than on the black market is debatable, but I suspect it will not be significantly more than the black market because the black market will still be there in some form providing extra competition too. The guy who grows weed in his wardrobe illegally and makes a profit on it and gets his for free in the bargain won't stop just because the shop down the road can do it, unless the shop down the road can do it cheaper than him and takes all his customers.
Phatscotty wrote:crispybits wrote:If it's legalised it will become an industry like any other, but there will also be multiple entrants into the market.
So the downwards pressure on prices from competition, coupled with the downward pressures on cost of supply due to economies of scale, will (to an unknown extent) balance out the upward pressure on prices due to extra taxes. Whether that means the price ends up higher or lower than on the black market is debatable, but I suspect it will not be significantly more than the black market because the black market will still be there in some form providing extra competition too. The guy who grows weed in his wardrobe illegally and makes a profit on it and gets his for free in the bargain won't stop just because the shop down the road can do it, unless the shop down the road can do it cheaper than him and takes all his customers.
I understand all that. I just bet that isn't how it happens, and that prices will be a lot higher in the short term (3-5 years)
Cigarettes more than doubled in a very short time, some places even tripled. My main point is and has been "Nobody cares about the smokers". It's self explanatory how this all ends up. Yes, in theory, if we had good government and economic Liberty, sounds great. We do not have that though.
crispybits wrote:Also, cigarettes aren't easy for people to grow in their basement or cupboard. Pot is. The existing black market will regulate the emerging white market in terms of price to start with and that effect wasnt present for cigarettes to the same extent (illegal smuggled ones from Mexico or wherever notwithstanding, there weren't growers in every town)
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