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Haggis_McMutton wrote:Here's my foolhardy attempt to stop 10 pages of people talking past each other.
Everyone please define "free will" before answering this.
I'll give my view later. Don't have time now.
crispybits wrote:First post here that has actually had the time to watch the video before commenting
Nola_Lifer wrote:Free will doesn't exist. It is like saying you have complete control over your brain and consciousness. You don't have control over these processes you only think you do.
Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Free will doesn't exist. It is like saying you have complete control over your brain and consciousness. You don't have control over these processes you only think you do.
Why is it necessary to have complete control over those processes in order to have free will?
AndyDufresne wrote:There is no poll, so I am not sure how to express my opinion.
--Andy
nietzsche wrote:
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
nietzsche wrote:I don't see something good coming out of this thread.
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
What causes what? .. Would you change your belief in the existence of free will if it would give you a positive attitude.
Nola_Lifer wrote:Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Free will doesn't exist. It is like saying you have complete control over your brain and consciousness. You don't have control over these processes you only think you do.
Why is it necessary to have complete control over those processes in order to have free will?
If you have control then you would have free will over your consciousness. For example, when you sleep and have a dream your mind will paralyze your body so that your mind can be free of bodily functions. Like kicking yourself out of bed or punching your wall. You have no free will over this, conscious choice. There is a phenomenon where some people wake up and can't move. In this sense, having free will is consciously having control over your bodily and mental functions, which we don't. We don't even have control over consciousness which we believe has power over all functions.
Dukasaur wrote:I'm not bothered by the fact that free will is an illusion. As long as it's a good and tangible illusion, I can enjoy it.nietzsche wrote:I don't see something good coming out of this thread.
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
What causes what? .. Would you change your belief in the existence of free will if it would give you a positive attitude.
Woodruff wrote:Dukasaur wrote:I'm not bothered by the fact that free will is an illusion. As long as it's a good and tangible illusion, I can enjoy it.nietzsche wrote:I don't see something good coming out of this thread.
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
What causes what? .. Would you change your belief in the existence of free will if it would give you a positive attitude.
I don't think that's true for me. I have a pretty good outlook on life, I think. I basically look to maximize enjoyment, and only rarely let my mind be distracted by the fact that the universe is essentially an evil thing and that we're all just prolonging the agony until death.
That's a hell of an interesting take on "pretty good outlook on life". <grin>
nietzsche wrote:I don't see something good coming out of this thread.
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
What causes what? .. Would you change your belief in the existence of free will if it would give you a positive attitude.
Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Free will doesn't exist. It is like saying you have complete control over your brain and consciousness. You don't have control over these processes you only think you do.
Why is it necessary to have complete control over those processes in order to have free will?
If you have control then you would have free will over your consciousness. For example, when you sleep and have a dream your mind will paralyze your body so that your mind can be free of bodily functions. Like kicking yourself out of bed or punching your wall. You have no free will over this, conscious choice. There is a phenomenon where some people wake up and can't move. In this sense, having free will is consciously having control over your bodily and mental functions, which we don't. We don't even have control over consciousness which we believe has power over all functions.
We're obviously talking about vastly different things, because it doesn't make sense to me that in order to have free will I must have complete control over EVERYTHING. That seems nonsensical to me.
Dukasaur wrote:Woodruff wrote:Dukasaur wrote:I'm not bothered by the fact that free will is an illusion. As long as it's a good and tangible illusion, I can enjoy it.nietzsche wrote:I don't see something good coming out of this thread.
But it's interesting to note that those who believe there's no free will tend to have a fatalistic or negative outlook on life, and viceversa.
What causes what? .. Would you change your belief in the existence of free will if it would give you a positive attitude.
I don't think that's true for me. I have a pretty good outlook on life, I think. I basically look to maximize enjoyment, and only rarely let my mind be distracted by the fact that the universe is essentially an evil thing and that we're all just prolonging the agony until death.
That's a hell of an interesting take on "pretty good outlook on life". <grin>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism#Ethics
chang50 wrote:Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Woodruff wrote:Nola_Lifer wrote:Free will doesn't exist. It is like saying you have complete control over your brain and consciousness. You don't have control over these processes you only think you do.
Why is it necessary to have complete control over those processes in order to have free will?
If you have control then you would have free will over your consciousness. For example, when you sleep and have a dream your mind will paralyze your body so that your mind can be free of bodily functions. Like kicking yourself out of bed or punching your wall. You have no free will over this, conscious choice. There is a phenomenon where some people wake up and can't move. In this sense, having free will is consciously having control over your bodily and mental functions, which we don't. We don't even have control over consciousness which we believe has power over all functions.
We're obviously talking about vastly different things, because it doesn't make sense to me that in order to have free will I must have complete control over EVERYTHING. That seems nonsensical to me.
But in order to have freewill I think you would agree that you should have control over your decisions and Harris and developments in neuroscience,if I grasp them,seem to dispute that.It seems that decisions are irrevocably made some seconds before we are aware of making them,making freewill an illusion.I don't pretend to fully understand this but it shouldn't be dismissed just because it is radically counter-intuitive.
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