james o'keefe

[SultanOfSurreal]

Okay...

May 7, 2009 - 7 Pennsylvania ACORN workers charged in voter probe...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... ers_c.html

Damn those gullible Allegheny County police and District Attorney Stephen Zappala!!!

Also, Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html

Hmm... Wall Street Journal or facebook blog?

are you listening to anything i say at all you dumb motherfucker?

this is voter registration fraud, not voter fraud (and it has nothing at all to do with the previous county jail registration drive)

now ACORN has to submit the fraudulent registration forms, as a matter of law. any registrations they suspect as fraudulent, they flag. but even if fake registrations do slip through, it does not translate into actual voter fraud -- the casting of illegitimate votes -- because these forms are being made up from whole cloth by volunteers. no one exists to actually go and cast votes under these fake identities.

so some corrupt volunteers got busted filing fake registration forms, ACORN followed the law and cooperated with authorities at every step, and no illegitimate votes were cast. so what is the problem?

[thegreekdog]

Okay...

May 7, 2009 - 7 Pennsylvania ACORN workers charged in voter probe...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... ers_c.html

Damn those gullible Allegheny County police and District Attorney Stephen Zappala!!!

Also, Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html

Hmm... Wall Street Journal or facebook blog?

are you listening to anything i say at all you dumb motherfucker?

this is voter registration fraud, not voter fraud (and it has nothing at all to do with the previous county jail registration drive)

now ACORN has to submit the fraudulent registration forms, as a matter of law. any registrations they suspect as fraudulent, they flag. but even if fake registrations do slip through, it does not translate into actual voter fraud -- the casting of illegitimate votes -- because these forms are being made up from whole cloth by volunteers. no one exists to actually go and cast votes under these fake identities.

so some corrupt volunteers got busted filing fake registration forms, ACORN followed the law and cooperated with authorities at every step, and no illegitimate votes were cast. so what is the problem?

Oh noes... semantics... whatever shall I do?

You're a fucking idiot. ACORN tried to commit voter fraud, they tried to commit voter registration fraud. What part can you not get through your thick, neanderthal-shaped skull? ACORN is a fucking sham, and it should be removed from the political process. I would say the same fucking thing if this was a conservative organization. It's a shame you're so adamant in your hypocrisy. These fuckers attempted to register people that did not exist... they attempted to pass absentee ballots for people that cannot vote or who do not exist. WHAT PART OF THAT IS OKAY WITH YOU???

You want to argue semantics, fine, but at this point you're just being an idiot. Also, please cite to some more shitty blogs as your reference. There are four to seven people going to jail for this shit...

[SultanOfSurreal]

Oh noes... semantics... whatever shall I do?

You're a fucking idiot. ACORN tried to commit voter fraud, they tried to commit voter registration fraud. What part can you not get through your thick, neanderthal-shaped skull? ACORN is a fucking sham, and it should be removed from the political process. I would say the same fucking thing if this was a conservative organization. It's a shame you're so adamant in your hypocrisy. These fuckers attempted to register people that did not exist... they attempted to pass absentee ballots for people that cannot vote or who do not exist. WHAT PART OF THAT IS OKAY WITH YOU???

You want to argue semantics, fine, but at this point you're just being an idiot. Also, please cite to some more shitty blogs as your reference. There are four to seven people going to jail for this shit...

oh my god, will you please just listen for one goddamn second

ACORN has to submit all registrations they get. they have to. do you understand that? they have to. just to reiterate for your dumb ass: they have to. the volunteers on the ground are responsible for the registrations, but when their supervisors suspect fraud has been committed they flag the registrations and report the volunteers responsible to authorities. that's the only reason why we know any of this happened.

no one actually cast a fraudulent vote as a result of ACORN's registration drives. NO ONE. NOT ONE PERSON. i will keep saying this until you are either forced to admit its truthfulness or until the force of my contempt for you manifests itself physically and causes you catastrophic multiple organ failure

as for the actual, living human beings ACORN registered, they only registered people who have the right to vote. it doesn't matter if they're incarcerated, they still had the legal right to vote. and they never gave out absentee ballots -- they don't have the right to do that! -- they helped the inmates fill out requests for ballots which were ultimately handled by the state election board.

ACORN the organization did nothing wrong here. you are so. fucking. stupid. jesus christ.

[pimpdave]

OH NO! THERE'S A PECK STANDING HERE WITH AN ACORN POINTED AT ME!

[thegreekdog]

Oh noes... semantics... whatever shall I do?

You're a fucking idiot. ACORN tried to commit voter fraud, they tried to commit voter registration fraud. What part can you not get through your thick, neanderthal-shaped skull? ACORN is a fucking sham, and it should be removed from the political process. I would say the same fucking thing if this was a conservative organization. It's a shame you're so adamant in your hypocrisy. These fuckers attempted to register people that did not exist... they attempted to pass absentee ballots for people that cannot vote or who do not exist. WHAT PART OF THAT IS OKAY WITH YOU???

You want to argue semantics, fine, but at this point you're just being an idiot. Also, please cite to some more shitty blogs as your reference. There are four to seven people going to jail for this shit...

oh my god, will you please just listen for one goddamn second

ACORN has to submit all registrations they get. they have to. do you understand that? they have to. just to reiterate for your dumb ass: they have to. the volunteers on the ground are responsible for the registrations, but when their supervisors suspect fraud has been committed they flag the registrations and report the volunteers responsible to authorities. that's the only reason why we know any of this happened.

no one actually cast a fraudulent vote as a result of ACORN's registration drives. NO ONE. NOT ONE PERSON. i will keep saying this until you admit its truthfulness or until the force of my contempt for you manifests itself physically and causes you catastrophic multiple organ failure

as for the actual, living human beings ACORN registered, they only registered people who have the right to vote. it doesn't matter if they're incarcerated, they still had the legal right to vote. and they never gave out absentee ballots -- they don't have the right to do that -- they helped the inmates fill out requests for ballots which were ultimately handled by the state election board.

ACORN the organization did nothing wrong here. you are so. fucking. stupid. jesus christ.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

Let me just ask this one - is voter registration fraud a crime such that a district attorney would indict and then try volunteers associated with ACORN for voter registration fraud? (Psst... the answer is "yes.") If you do not think this is a crime, go out and try to do this. I want to see what happens.

Let me also make this statement - I did not, nor will I ever, accuse ACORN of swaying any political election in favor of any political candidate. That's not my point (because, as you rightly point out, they simply cannot). My point is to accuse you of being a jackass for supporting fucking ACORN.

Finally, you are arguing semantics and you aren't even arguing with me. You're arguing with someone that accuses ACORN of swaying elections. I'm simply not arguing that... I'm not that person. You're assuming I'm sitting here listening to Rush Limbaugh saying that ACORN swayed the election in Pittsburgh with their voter fraud. I have never typed that here. I said that ACORN volunteers are under indictment in Allegheny County for voter registration fraud. They did it. They are going to jail. You have no argument against that, so, as usual, you've attempted to reframe the argument. YOU, my friend, are the one that is so fucking stupid... jesus christ.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Let me just ask this one - is voter registration fraud a crime such that a district attorney would indict and then try volunteers associated with ACORN for voter registration fraud? (Psst... the answer is "yes.") If you do not think this is a crime, go out and try to do this. I want to see what happens.

it is a fucking crime and i said as much. the volunteers responsible got busted, largely because ACORN reported them to the proper authorities. those volunteers were corrupt and now they're being punished. that's my entire point.

Finally, you are arguing semantics and you aren't even arguing with me. You're arguing with someone that accuses ACORN of swaying elections. I'm simply not arguing that... I'm not that person. You're assuming I'm sitting here listening to Rush Limbaugh saying that ACORN swayed the election in Pittsburgh with their voter fraud. I have never typed that here. I said that ACORN volunteers are under indictment in Allegheny County for voter registration fraud. They did it. They are going to jail. You have no argument against that, so, as usual, you've attempted to reframe the argument. YOU, my friend, are the one that is so fucking stupid... jesus christ.

you are the one who said ACORN committed voter fraud, not that ACORN volunteers committed voter registration fraud, thereby implying fraudulent votes were cast. this is not semantics, by the way -- it's an important distinction, and one the media completely failed to make in 2008.

but as a matter of fact, you are arguing against something i never said -- of course the registration fraud is illegal, it's fucking fraud. i said that the ones who committed it got busted for it. what do you think that means? that they got away with it? my point is that fraudulent or not, ACORN had to submit those registrations. they don't get to decide which registrations are false -- that's up to the state's election board. but ACORN was helpful and cooperative in catching the parties responsible for fraud.

[thegreekdog]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

[spurgistan]

I'm just confused that O'Keefe was videotaping his buddy commit a felony. What was he planning to do with that tape? Did he actually feel like he'd get away with a felony if he got some meat on Landrieu? Sad thing is, it could have been possible, what with nobody really caring about hacked e-mails and whatever.

[thegreekdog]

I'm just confused that O'Keefe was videotaping his buddy commit a felony. What was he planning to do with that tape? Did he actually feel like he'd get away with a felony if he got some meat on Landrieu? Sad thing is, it could have been possible, what with nobody really caring about hacked e-mails and whatever.

Yeah, I don't know what there was for him to get.

[Neoteny]

This thread was awesome.

[pimpdave]

OH NO! THERE'S A PECK STANDING HERE WITH AN ACORN POINTED AT ME!

Somebody please catch my reference.

[HapSmo19]

willow?

[Neoteny]

So is this ACORNgate? Lousianagate? O'Keefegate?

Watergate redux?

EDIT: Also, these men are clearly terrorists. Truth serum and military tribunal.

[Neoteny]

I'm just confused that O'Keefe was videotaping his buddy commit a felony. What was he planning to do with that tape? Did he actually feel like he'd get away with a felony if he got some meat on Landrieu? Sad thing is, it could have been possible, what with nobody really caring about hacked e-mails and whatever.

Ah yes, Climategategate.

[thegreekdog]

So is this ACORNgate? Lousianagate? O'Keefegate?

Watergate redux?

EDIT: Also, these men are clearly terrorists. Truth serum and military tribunal.

HA! I was thinking the same thing...

But, they're citizens. I still don't know whether the Constitution's guarantees apply to non-citizens.

[Snorri1234]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

[thegreekdog]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

Seriously, this is getting ludicrous.

FUCKING ACORN EMPLOYEES ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE IN VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD!!! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!

MORE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

Edit - Look, is this one of those things where you're saying, "Hey, ACORN saw that their employees/volunteers were trying to defraud the election process and ACORN caught them before they could." Because if it is... ridiculous.

[Snorri1234]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

Seriously, this is getting ludicrous.

FUCKING ACORN EMPLOYEES ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE IN VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD!!! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!

MORE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

"Volunteers" and that's exactly my point. They aren't ACORN any more than the intern getting coffee at your firm is in fact your firm. If that intern starts stealing stuff and is reported by your firm to the police do you think it would be fair of me to call your firm a corrupt, criminal organization?


ACORN did exactly the right thing here in all aspects. Unless you admit that ACORN did nothing wrong here you are not in agreement and also dumb.

[thegreekdog]

Sigh...

Here... I hope this is non-partisan enough for your viewing pleasure...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... tions.html

Some highlights...
- ACORN workers have been convicted of submitting false voter registration forms in Colrado Springs, Kansas City, King County, Las Vegas, Wisconsin, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana.
- The FBI is investigating any evidence of a coordinated national issue.

The rest of this stuff in the article debunks the conservative obsession with ACORN (which Sultan has also put in his posts on this).

The point here is that ACORN workers have been investigated on numerous occasions, and the FBI may or may not be investigating. I don't know if the president of ACORN is telling his employees to go commit voter registration fraud; but it's occuring and it's occurred a number of times in a number of states. So, perhaps the ACORN manual covers this; but perhaps, on the other hand, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE GETTING CHARGED AND CONVICTED ALL THE FUCKING TIME YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!

[Snorri1234]

The point here is that ACORN workers have been investigated on numerous occasions, and the FBI may or may not be investigating. I don't know if the president of ACORN is telling his employees to go commit voter registration fraud; but it's occuring and it's occurred a number of times in a number of states. So, perhaps the ACORN manual covers this; but perhaps, on the other hand, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE GETTING CHARGED AND CONVICTED ALL THE FUCKING TIME YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!

Yeah but the problem is that it's really hard to prevent attempted voterfraud. You hand out forms to volunteers and all they have to do to commit registration fraud is fill in the papers themselves. It's ridiculously easy.

Sure, relying on volunteers and paying them for each filled out form they hand over is risky but how else are they going to do it? They could get better employees and spend more money on educating them why it's such a dumb idea to try fraud, but that costs money and diminishes what they want to do, i.e. get more people to vote.


Don't forget though that A LOT of volunteers and employees didn't try to fraud ACORN. The fact that it occured several times is simply because it's so easy and seems really easy to get away with if you know nothing about the process behind voting. I wouldn't think the volunteers are all much up to date about how hard it is to get away with registration fraud, hell you and I only know it because we read the news but I'm sure the president of ACORN is well aware of it.

[thegreekdog]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

[Snorri1234]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

Yes but how is he supposed to correct it without damaging the actual good work the organization does? Especially since it is so hard to prevent because it's so easy to do, and because the people trying get caught anyway.


Besides, I doubt it will be much of a problem in the future. Everybody now knows it's a dumb thing to try.

[MeDeFe]

tgd, you're being a tool.

[thegreekdog]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

Yes but how is he supposed to correct it without damaging the actual good work the organization does? Especially since it is so hard to prevent because it's so easy to do, and because the people trying get caught anyway.


Besides, I doubt it will be much of a problem in the future. Everybody now knows it's a dumb thing to try.

Yeah, you'd think the volunteers would get the point...

In any event... O'Keefe - more of a scumbag for breaking & entering, or more of a scumbag for banning Lucky Charms?

[thegreekdog]

tgd, you're being a tool.

EDIT - I just like fighting with Sultan... it's fun. We get all these really good quotes.