Terminator Experiment Results

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Terminator Experiment Results

Postby DiM on Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:07 am

2 weeks ago i asked people with scores of around 1500 to join me in an experiment. the participants were willis gilligan treefiddy and john1099. no details were made public at that point and only me and the above people knew about it. but i think time has come now to present what the experiment is about and what are the results.

initially i wanted to make a double experiment for standard freestyle 1v1 games and for terminator sequential 1v1 games but because of lack of interest on the freestyle part and because i wasn't able to play as much as i wanted (only 12 games) i abandoned the freestyle part and stuck only to terminator games.

what was the idea?

simple. start terminator sequential 1v1 games on fairly large maps and deadbeat in all the games where you have a chance of loosing. this way because of the nature of terminator games you will not lose any points. in theory this way you can gain many many points without losing any.

why?
simply because i believe it is wrong that we have such a flaw in the system and i think it should be corrected at once.

besides the point of hopefully changing the rules i also wanted to see some other statistics like times a player went first or had a bonus from the start.


so here are the results.
total games played: 193
red went first: 98
red went first%: 50.78%
green went first: 95
green went first%: 49.22%
red had bonus: 9
red had bonus%: 4.66%
green had bonus: 13
green had bonus%: 6.74%
deadbeat: 56
deadbeat%: 29.02%
wins: 104
win% w/ deadbeat: 53.89%
win% w/o deadbeat: 75.91%
losses: 31
negative feedbacks: 11
positive feedbacks: 1
points gained: 1755
points lost: 570
points profit.: 1185

the results aren't quite final as some games are still going but i think the number is enough to form an opinion.
as you can see the winning percentage without counting the deadbeating games is at 75.91%. this should have been at 100% but the fact that none of us have done this before and the fact that at first we simply weren't used to deadbeating lead to such a number. but if a person was set to really abuse the system he could easily get 100% wins not counting the deadbeating games.

the total point profit is at almost 1200 points without counting the remaining games. i have a profit of just 90 points but other people have had as high as 300+ profits.

i sincerely apologize to all the people that had to suffer because of our deadbeating. we know we waisted your time and made you mad and we agree we deserved our negative feedbacks and threatening pms (yes indeed some people used the pm to threaten us)
i for one am willing to offer a rematch to any person that felt disadvantaged by this experiment.


anyway i hope that the right person will read this *cough* Lackattack *cough* and perhaps do something for terminator games to avoid this gross abuse to ever happen.
Last edited by DiM on Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Honibaz on Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:22 am

Very nice =D> , I'm sure lackattack will see this. I think they should set up a new rule that when a player deadbeats a certain amount of games, they will receive temporary ban as a punishment.
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Postby juventino on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:38 am

This issue have been raised before.

I dont see the point in your statistics but good you put some more pressure on this.

If I arent such a good person *sighs* I would defently start deadbeating terminator games I cant win.

You can do it from start almost. Esp on large maps.
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Postby Robinette on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:40 am

Honibaz wrote:Very nice =D> , I'm sure lackattack will see this. I think they should set up a new rule that when a player deadbeats a certain amount of games, they will receive temporary ban as a punishment.


I wonder how many people have figured this out already?

** Hey Honibaz... I notice your map is Hong Kong, but you live in Guangzhou? What's up with that? By the way, I've been to your city, and a few others around there, and of course Hong Kong was my favorite, but we also went to a city especially to shop for purses... was that Guangzhou?? can't remember...
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:51 am

I participated in this experiment; and let me tell you it was very interesting. I got a total of 318 points at the end, expressing a big profit. Though I only got 1 threatening PM (:lol: DiM) it was from gonnawhoopyourass :lol:. Anyway, I got 2 negatives, from about the 20 around games deadbeated in, and no positives. I found that people in games where I was going to deadbeat (It was fairly obvious I was going to) they didn't really try to take enough bonuses to try to take me out before I missed 3 turns. That happened quite often.
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Postby willis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:54 am

Gilligan wrote:I participated in this experiment; and let me tell you it was very interesting. I got a total of 318 points at the end, expressing a big profit. Though I only got 1 threatening PM (:lol: DiM) it was from gonnawhoopyourass :lol:. Anyway, I got 2 negatives, from about the 20 around games deadbeated in, and no positives. I found that people in games where I was going to deadbeat (It was fairly obvious I was going to) they didn't really try to take enough bonuses to try to take me out before I missed 3 turns. That happened quite often.
Same here. Also I just got another negative putting me up to 3 from the experiment
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:56 am

willis wrote:
Gilligan wrote:I participated in this experiment; and let me tell you it was very interesting. I got a total of 318 points at the end, expressing a big profit. Though I only got 1 threatening PM (:lol: DiM) it was from gonnawhoopyourass :lol:. Anyway, I got 2 negatives, from about the 20 around games deadbeated in, and no positives. I found that people in games where I was going to deadbeat (It was fairly obvious I was going to) they didn't really try to take enough bonuses to try to take me out before I missed 3 turns. That happened quite often.
Same here. Also I just got another negative putting me up to 3 from the experiment


I'm not too big of a fan of these 2 negatives I got putting me at 5 in total (including my previous negatives).

Mine were from wannat8 and ShreddaCheese. So hopefully they will see this and maybe consider deleting them.
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Postby willis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:05 am

Gilligan wrote:I'm not too big of a fan of these 2 negatives I got putting me at 5 in total (including my previous negatives).

Mine were from wannat8 and ShreddaCheese. So hopefully they will see this and maybe consider deleting them.
I just ent back and edited my response with the url. I might pm the link to them to see if they have a change of heart
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:22 am

i just PMed them.
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:24 am

DiM, you might want to edit the first post, I just got 7 points from a game with a cook.
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Postby willis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:27 am

Gilligan wrote:DiM, you might want to edit the first post, I just got 7 points from a game with a cook.
I stopped keeping track of score. But I have deadbeated in 4 or 5 since he announced this was over
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Postby s1im on Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:59 am

i'm thinking of leaving you positive feedback as you felt you were going to lose aganst me! :D
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Postby lamoon on Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:30 am

not sure i see the point here. If you join terminator games then you know this is likely to happen, so if u don't want it to happen, its easy - play standard, everyone has a choice and lets face it the only difference between terminator 1 v 1 and standard is the option to deadbeat for free

so whats the big deal?
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:39 am

lamoon wrote:not sure i see the point here. If you join terminator games then you know this is likely to happen, so if u don't want it to happen, its easy - play standard, everyone has a choice and lets face it the only difference between terminator 1 v 1 and standard is the option to deadbeat for free

so whats the big deal?


The point here is that it is a 1v1 and you only get points if you eliminate people. So, if you deadbeat out, you don't lose points. If you win, you get points, so you get a profit.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:49 am

What bugs me is how easy this should be to fix. There is already code to prevent 2, 3, and 5 player doubles games. A very similar code should work to stop terminator 1v1. It seems like a copy paste to me with some variable changes.

I could be very wrong here though. I had to do what should have been a simple copy paste of javascript the other day at work and it took me 2 days to get the thing to work right.
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:59 am

I agree. As triples will only work with 6 players.
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Postby treefiddy on Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:21 pm

I think that this fix should go into all Terminator games, not just 1v1. Not allowing 1v1 Terminator would fix that problem, but I do believe that any terminator game, where the final person deadbeats, they should lose points like they were eliminated by the last person standing.

I had hoped we'd have had more info on the defacto double turns, but I remember Lack saying that he was planning to do away with those eventually anyway.
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Postby willis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:32 pm

s1im wrote:i'm thinking of leaving you positive feedback as you felt you were going to lose aganst me! :D
:lol: I had some bad dice.
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Postby willis on Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:34 pm

willis wrote: Also I just got another negative putting me up to 3 from the experiment
But also got one removed
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:09 pm

1 replied, but DiM said it was legit, so he put it back :/
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Postby treefiddy on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:14 pm

I actually ended up with two positive feedbacks from the experiment. I guess I didn't notice that second one get slipped in between all the negatives. :D

But seriously. There were 5 of us and I got 5 negatives out of the 11. Did the rest of you just win all of your games? I deadbeated out a quite a few because I suck at 1v1.
Last edited by treefiddy on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:14 pm

4 negatives, though.
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Postby treefiddy on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Gilligan wrote:4 negatives, though.


You totally fast posted my edit.

Actually got 5 negatives, one has been removed since though.
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:57 pm

I got 2 negatives, 0 positives.

I'll have how many I won, lost, and deadbeated out of tomorrow.
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Postby cleveridea on Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:45 pm

All this really proved is that

#1 folks can come to conquerclub.com, expect a fair game and what they get instead is unknowingly involved in an "experiment" run by self-important ninnies.

#2 the feedback system is almost entirely pointless since having you receive anything less than dozens of negative feedback means that almost no one cared about leaving well deserved negative feedback.

Bravo on finding this flaw. Hiss on not going through lack in the first place to get it remedied. Do you not find lack responsive enough on fixing things? This "experiment" just demonstrates to lack that he's in a no-win situation, either he:

* Stops or slows down innovation and faces complaints from folks wanting new features, or

* Innovates and has a gaggle of brats gunning to embarrass him publicly.

I'd ban you all for 6 months for this stunt.
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