Conquer Club

Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [closed]

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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby James14 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:29 pm

stahrgazer wrote:When setting up a game in live chat, he's cautious about who he invites, carefully checks their game history to ensure he's playing a noob to the map. He throws out a lure of "I'll teach you the map," but if you look at example gamechat below, you'll see that his teaching is nil, before or after the game. Telling someone who asks, of Galapagos, what the luggers are, "big ships," or that, "masks relate to the reefs," is hardly teaching.


How do you know what he is thinking? Unless you can read minds (through a computer) then this is impossible information to know. Also, without talking to the "victims" first hand it is only insulting to their intelligence to assume they were tricked. I knowingly and willingly accepted my invite. I was not forced to play David.

As someone that has played David twice in the past two days, I can say that I was given some pointers after each game... And guess what--- it was in PRIVATE CHAT. Looking at the game logs is an incomplete record of a conversation between David and his opponent.

If asked for a rematch, he insists any rematch be done on a different map. He squirms out of most bad ratings by reminding them of the 'points risk' - which isn't much of a risk when you're luring noobs to freestyle Waterloo and similar tricky maps.


I am not sure what you're trying to prove here. If you're so upset that he is using tricky maps to lure unsuspecting newbs, then suggest CC make only a few self-explanatory maps available instead of flaming David. I am not surprised to hear that you might have a personal vendetta with David, because these accusations are nonsense.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:29 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
@ stah I have nothing personal with you, but your reports sound very disgruntled. You are the type of customer we would kick out of our shop for constant bitching. Sure stand up for what you think is right and blah blah.... But this is nothing more than you being pissed and throwing a tantrum. Move on already.


Once again, brucie, you act with a perspective based on about 10% of the information, thus, you're incorrect. Your sniping - or to use your words, "constant bitching" at people who ask admin to rule based on legitimate concerns, is quite sad.

It is perfectly reasonable for someone to think that the rule on game abuse, "Includes but is not limited to," is referring to Gen.LeeGettinhed's type of luring. It is also perfectly reasonable for someone to ask admin for a ruling.

Initially I asked for the ruling in an e-ticket, but that got ignored for many weeks; so I did what several people asked and posted it here.

When I review the past ruling on David, which merited a Warning I see that he was given leeway at that time because he was freemie. He wasn't fremie during the period of games I reviewed and posted about, so that excuse is gone. Comparisons to other members are insignificant, because other members do not make the same habit of luring in live chat pm's.

Now, therefore, we have an opportunity for admin to step in and decide whether these types of luring are, or are not, legal, for David and any other member of CC to partake.

Frankly, bruce, since you're a member of the SoC, I'd think you'd welcome an official ruling for your students.

Obviously, my perspective is, if it's considered "farming" to post a series of public games with no control over who joins, but noobs happen to join, then aggressively seeking a series of private games knowing that you're refusing any but noobs (or noobs to that particular map) to join, including lying to them with a promise to 'teach' - should constitute gross abuse of the game, if not farming.

When admin makes the ruling, we'll know.

Meanwhile, I would appreciate it if you either give real evidence in support of or against David, rather than constantly bitch because you don't happen to care for the complainant.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby lord voldemort on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:36 pm

This is pending. This was something we were already aware about and have been talking about for a while. But it does get into tricky territory. It may be pending for a while. But it should speed up discussion on the issue
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:39 pm

lord voldemort wrote:This is pending. This was something we were already aware about and have been talking about for a while. But it does get into tricky territory. It may be pending for a while. But it should speed up discussion on the issue


Thanks, LV. I look forward to the decision; as I'm sure much of CC looks forward to knowing what that "includes but not limited to" actually limits.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:58 pm

I admit, i played David on Treasure of the Galapagos. I never knew the map, never knew any strategy on it. If you looked at teh game chat, you saw nothing. Why? Because he was talking to me in the Live Chat.

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He helped me throughout the game, telling me what is a good or bad move. I'm just pointing this out to any game that you find, where you see 0 game chat. Because i'm sure that i am not the first one that he has actually helped.

It may not be much, but since he gave me the tactics he told me in LC, i have been able to keep, in terms of what i have ever gotten, a pretty good rank. At the time, i believe, BELIEVE, i was a Private FC. Since that game, i haven't dropped below Corporal, which is pretty good for me. And i have been really close to making it to Lieutenant, which i am pretty proud of
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby king sam on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:10 pm

as LV said we didnt not pay attention to your E-Ticket.

This has been a behind the scenes case that we have all been looking at and talking about since we got it in mid October. So believe me and LV when we say this will get addressed as it is and a ruling will come out hopefully sooner then later.

But to all, please continue on with your discussions in here, just watch your words and don't go to flaming or else this will result in a lock.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:13 pm

king sam wrote:as LV said we didnt not pay attention to your E-Ticket.



I trusted that, until it up and disappeared from etickets today with no response ;)

maybe that was a system glitch someone needs to look at???
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:31 pm

Gen.LeeGettinhed wrote:
Finally, since what I do IS legal...and NOT FARMING (see Fourth), anyone CALLING me a FARMER is a liar, misrepresenting the truth and FLAMING. Gen.LeeGettinhed


David,
My post indicates we had been friends. You knew weeks ago I didn't want you pm'g me, or talking to me (the timeframe happens to correspond with when I realized you really do lure noobs to games). Asking for a ruling from admin about what I think may be your gross game abuse if not farming, it is quite reasonable, not flaming, and certainly isn't lying. Some of your post, on the other hand, crosses the line. Um.. let's see, if what you do isn't farming, but is "orchard tendering" then what you did here isn't flaming it's um... match inspecting?

Let admin make the ruling, then you'll be cleared or hanged, but we'll all know what's truly legit.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:50 pm

nippersean wrote:Aside: only just realised my originals were included - I was annoyed I was pfc and David was scared of losing precious points. I'd about 12 completed games and 1 on Waterloo.


Did you find the teaching he gave you beneficial?
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:12 pm

nippersean wrote:Bruce, not interested in your chat with LFAW and Stahr - how do you defend this position?
Do you think it's OK?
Is it OK re hanging round chatrooms and only playing with settings / maps where you know you will win?
What is your opinion - I'm not asking about CC rules. Do you think it's OK?


Aside: only just realised my originals were included - I was annoyed I was pfc and David was scared of losing precious points. I'd about 12 completed games and 1 on Waterloo.



This is not a place to discuss what we think is right or wrong. That is for suggestions and bugs. This is to take what is law or in this case CC rules and put them to use. We may not agree with all the CC rules and or what is farming and not farming... yada yada... You start going down a slippery slope if you start with a case such as this. It will be a massive witch hunt. If you wish to debate what is farming or not take it to the proper place. If not then use what is presented and go with it. Per CC rules this is not farming so nothing to see here. As someone who is in live chat a good bit I can tell you all that ever turn up looking for games generally is freemium lower ranking players. Thus why he seems to get a bunch of those.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:20 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Gen.LeeGettinhed wrote:
Finally, since what I do IS legal...and NOT FARMING (see Fourth), anyone CALLING me a FARMER is a liar, misrepresenting the truth and FLAMING. Gen.LeeGettinhed


David,
My post indicates we had been friends. You knew weeks ago I didn't want you pm'g me, or talking to me (the timeframe happens to correspond with when I realized you really do lure noobs to games). Asking for a ruling from admin about what I think may be your gross game abuse if not farming, it is quite reasonable, not flaming, and certainly isn't lying. Some of your post, on the other hand, crosses the line. Um.. let's see, if what you do isn't farming, but is "orchard tendering" then what you did here isn't flaming it's um... match inspecting?

Let admin make the ruling, then you'll be cleared or hanged, but we'll all know what's truly legit.



The bolded part...

He is not luring anybody into a game. Every person can say no, yet they wish to play the game. Weather they suck on the map or not is not a point of debate. Most of the time these low ranked players come asking for games. He offers them a game and many accept on their own free will. This is not pre school, so lets not treat players as such.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Mr Changsha on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:50 pm

I've got this wonderful mental image of David lurking outside a catholic girls school as the young ladies await their A level results. As the girls stream out of the school clutching their 4 grade A's (for everyone gets an 'A' now don't you know) out pops David from his modified Ford Escort with a bouquet of roses in one hand, a bottle of vodka in the other while wearing a T shirt saying 'Are you legal???'

With regards to the case, this isn't farming as the rule clearly states that farming only includes new recruits. So our hunters will have to decide whether to extend the farming rule to include continuously playing the low ranked/inexperienced. Looks like David is the test case. Well done that man! I've always wanted to be a test case for something over than a psychological disorder! Maybe one day I can be a CC test case! Woot!
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Gen.LeeGettinhed on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:56 pm

St. Ahagazer, the self-righteous,

You totally ignore that I talk to people OFFLINE in Live Chat PM's so proctologists like you won't trace everything. You are like people that won't let people pray in public, don't like sexual education/condoms/abortion...then wonder why there are so many poor helpless children. George Carlin said it best "did you ever notice that people against abortion are people you wouldn't want to shag anyway?". The same goes for you and I playing. I QUIT PARTNERING with you because you were a self righteous biotch (and I'm a prick, so...).

Why don't you take your honed investigative skills and become a detective -- or better yet: proctologist, something someone anal retentive can make a living at. Get a fuggin life. Maybe I should have saved all those "apologetic letters" you used to send me when you realized that you were being a nag -- and were probably off your meds. Geez, no wonder you're not married any more....

Next you won't like how much someone drinks (legal), how fastthey drive (legal), or the color of car they drive. Please mind your own business, or start your own site.

Oh, and I noticed that you replaced your avatar several times....once to "goddess" when I mentioned how cool some gurls were. now it's an Egg? or a rock? maybe you were ovulating...or passing a kidney/Gall stone. Ask your doctor to change your meds...then take them regularly.

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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby king sam on Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:05 am

DH has been given his Official Warning for Flaming.

You all are encouraged to keep participating in a healthy conversation, but if posters continue down this road more punishments will be handed out and a possible lock until the decision is finalized.

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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:14 am

Honestly what is there to debate? We cannot just change the rules at hand mid sentence. This is for another place and time. What is at task is weather or not DH broke any of the current CC rules.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:20 am

Woodruff wrote:
colton24 wrote:Since when is 1v1 vs cooks, cadets, and privates farming? Team games against new recruits maybe, but according to Andy once a player is not a new recruit anymore they are "fair game"


They're speaking of the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, colton. Try to keep up.



In C&A all that we can use is the law, now what the spirit of the law is meant to be used as.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby pistebasher on Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:27 am

Bruceswar wrote:Honestly what is there to debate? We cannot just change the rules at hand mid sentence. This is for another place and time. What is at task is weather or not hoekstra broke any of the current CC rules.


Surely if under 'Rules', there is a sub-section 'Community Guidelines' - then these guidelines form part of the rules..
The beginning of the guidelines states :

The Community Guidelines

Welcome to the Conquer Club community. We're not just about kicking each other's rear ends here; we also like to hug and sing and drink around a camp fire. So, we have implemented one very simple rule to keep the community happily drinking its hot cocoa:

Don't be intentionally annoying!

Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat.


So as you say Bruce - there is little to debate - this rule is broken many times.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:30 am

pistebasher wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Honestly what is there to debate? We cannot just change the rules at hand mid sentence. This is for another place and time. What is at task is weather or not hoekstra broke any of the current CC rules.


Surely if under 'Rules', there is a sub-section 'Community Guidelines' - then these guidelines form part of the rules..
The beginning of the guidelines states :

The Community Guidelines

Welcome to the Conquer Club community. We're not just about kicking each other's rear ends here; we also like to hug and sing and drink around a camp fire. So, we have implemented one very simple rule to keep the community happily drinking its hot cocoa:

Don't be intentionally annoying!

Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat.


So as you say Bruce - there is little to debate - this rule is broken many times.


Incorrect. This rule has only been used on people who rant and rave in chat, cause problems in the forums, and or thing like that. Trolling other's games etc. Maxatstuy was banned for that reason. This does not include playing games. BTW how do you know any of these players he played had a less enjoyable time? I do not find this annoying at all. That is not what that rule you quoted is about.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby TheScarecrow on Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:49 am

Bruceswar wrote: That is not what that rule you quoted is about.


i thought we werent here to discuss the spirit of the rules?
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Gen.LeeGettinhed on Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:23 am

Stahrgazer needs to check her facts:
1) the warning I was givend "was for playing ? New Accounts (less than 5 wins) which:
- I haven't played but I think ONCE by accident
- STILL was WAY less than 20% limit TOLD TO ME BY CC MOD
2) talk to a few/alot more like TheForgivenOne...who I talk to IN LIVE CHAT PM -- not in games i play. I don't OWE anybody help, I offer and give...more if they are decent people, much less if they are spoiled brats.
3) I didn't PAY to become premium, I won it in a tournament. Then I could set Passwords, play speed, all nice features which you claim I use "like juice boxes in the basement...wine coolers at the playgroud"
4) ALSO you don't focus too much on the fact that I advise many "if you lose, you only lose a few points...but I lose many" often 16:1 ratio against me, so they are fairly warned -- AND they still want to play.
5) that I recently LOST 4 games and 260 points to lower ranks, something MANY high ranks WON'T RISK. We chose our own battles. Is there a law against playing who you want (other than TRUE NEWBIES)?
6) what you can't seem to get around is that CC set a limit of "NO NEWBIES (<5 completed games). You remind me of prohibitionists that didn't drinking, and once an age of 18 was set up, pushed for 21. OMG, the age limit changes by country (Canada/Mexico 18-19?) so IT'S ALL OPINION.

King Sam warned me about FLAMING you in my replies, while I thought I had kept it tame (they don't know me do they?). Hopefully this is less heated. But remember, just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Finally an engineer told me "arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig. You get dirty and the pig loves it." That saying seems to apply here.

Hopefully CC admin will contact me BEFORE they rule, with concerns -- but ALL were withing the letter of the law. Spirit is subject to interpretation. But enough sparring with you for now,
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby slowreactor on Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:42 am

pistebasher wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Honestly what is there to debate? We cannot just change the rules at hand mid sentence. This is for another place and time. What is at task is weather or not hoekstra broke any of the current CC rules.


Surely if under 'Rules', there is a sub-section 'Community Guidelines' - then these guidelines form part of the rules..
The beginning of the guidelines states :

The Community Guidelines

Welcome to the Conquer Club community. We're not just about kicking each other's rear ends here; we also like to hug and sing and drink around a camp fire. So, we have implemented one very simple rule to keep the community happily drinking its hot cocoa:

Don't be intentionally annoying!

Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat.


So as you say Bruce - there is little to debate - this rule is broken many times.


I don't know how the players in those games feel themselves, maybe if we ask some of them, see what they think? :mrgreen:
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby Gen.LeeGettinhed on Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:50 am

King Sam,

As CC Admin reviews this, PLEASE also consider what someone posted below:

"Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat."

That directly applies to Stahrgazer's attack. It is vicious, vindictive and intentional. As a reminder, mine are NOT intentional but responsive to the hugely one sided Windmill fighting reminiscent of Don Quioxite. Forum isn't her personal soapbox. Also, ANY PM's to her were intended to be friendly and to clarify and understand.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming

Postby KraphtOne on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:52 am

king sam wrote:
This has been a behind the scenes case that we have all been looking at and talking about since we got it in mid October.



i probably wouldn't have admitted that it takes you over a month to make a decision about something like this...


Bruceswar wrote:

This is not a place to discuss what we think is right or wrong.


it most certainly is :o

you feel someone is abusing the system... you report it here... if cc agrees, it becomes a rule...

after a few months... maybe...

100% cc wont be getting more money from this guy... and i love this game... what a shame...
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:10 am

Gen.LeeGettinhed wrote:4) ALSO you don't focus too much on the fact that I advise many "if you lose, you only lose a few points...but I lose many" often 16:1 ratio against me, so they are fairly warned -- AND they still want to play.

Heh? Of course they still want to play with you.

You have $1. I give you 16-1 odds on something. AND you still want to bet. Wait, what—of course you do! Fact #4 is something against you, not working in your favor.
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Re: Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [pending]

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:11 am

Some of the gamechats I posted (original post) showed what some of those players felt. Here's one:

2009-03-16 22:21:25 - earthen: freestyle was to unfair for me
2009-03-16 22:22:00 - earthen: I don't know how the map works and you playing before me all the time
2009-03-16 22:27:10 - Gen.LeeGettinhed: Sorry on last move taking so long. . .I deployed on wrong place
2009-03-16 22:30:25 - earthen: i'd play it again some time but i'll have to study the map first it only the first time i've seen the map and it's a bit confusing


As for is it farming or no? Again, in my original post, I indicate, this tactic may not be farming, but it appears to fall under gross abuse, if not farming. I haven't seen a ruling from admin on whether it falls under gross abuse, and since they need to take some time to think about it, I'm guessing moderators agree they haven't made that determination yet, bruce so your idea of not posting the inquiry because everyone already knows, is offbase.
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