Caymanmew wrote:Ok, I must admit, I misspoke here. You guys did not kill any events. That being said you attempted to kill both CL and CC but ultimately failed. If not for the forcefulness of the community and both Keefie and TeeGee putting themselves in the line of fire we would not have CL today. Let's not kid ourselves here, you lot did not want to run it and you sure as hell didn't want Keefie to. When TeeGee gave Keefie permission and he posted his signups you guys were forced into either letting him run it or running it yourselves.
At that point, CC just made/makes more sense then CWC.
As for your Clan tournament... that is completely not valid in this discussion. Although I don't have the PM for proof, I do remember you specifically saying it would not be a CD run event and it was just your thing. No idea why you didn't run it anyways. Most events are basically solo run and the assistant is only there in case. Unless you were planning to have me do all the grunt work?
CL11 was going to be ran regardless of how CWC turned out. The CDs did want to run CL, because Jp and myself are co-running the tournament together as we speak. Why would we decide to have co-directors if we were both not as equally interested in running it?
To your last point, I can see what you are trying to say. My point is that myself, being a CD, have looked into several events to try to run with community help. However, none of these events garnished any real measures of support from the people I contacted, so I tabled the ideas until I either had more support or more time to run them. Every event idea that I have had I have discussed with our CD team. We want events, but we feel as if we should not necessarily always be the catalyst behind those events, and encourage members of the community to help host other tournaments. (Side note to anyone reading this, anyone can try to create a clan tournament). And no, I was not wanting you to do "grunt work."
Caymanmew wrote:You guys have a tendency to lock threads when you're questioned. The CWC CAT thread is an example. It was actually moved first then brought back locked. All because people were asking too many questions. Another example is the recent CC10 signups, yes the trench discussion might not been appropriate there... but dude, you locked a signup thread, therefore preventing signups. You guys could have easily moved shit and gave a final warning without locking it.
An example of killing discussion could also be the whole trench issue. Clearly more discussion was needed then what happened early in the year. That much is very much evident by the reaction over the past few weeks. The discussion was cut off by the CD's saying that the poll would be considered. When you guys decided against siding with either side (100% or 50%) you should have reopened the discussion. Letting people know a compromise was being made and trying to get a feel for what leaders would find acceptable on both sides. Staying silent and private about important decisions like that is the opposite of encouraging discussion and community involvement.
Overall the CD's aggressive attitude towards discussion and the continued feelings of hopelessness in positive change coming from discussion has likely lead to a lot of people to stop trying, I might be joining that group soon, which I sure you guys will appreciate.
To your first point, it's not about restricting dialog. The whole reason things get locked/moved and then unlocked is for the CD team to make sure we are all on the same page before proceeding forward. Then we unlock the post. If we wanted to restrict dialog we would lock every post, but we do not do that.
To your second point, that CAT post was never moved or locked. You (or anyone else in CAT) could have continued to post your ideas/concerns/etc. in there. There is no need to reopen a discussion if it was never closed in the first place, no? And honestly, who has reacted the most over the past several weeks? A very small number of people. But let's get things started off for a CC11 discussion then. Would you be willing to start a CC11 discussion about particular rules you would be in favor of changing, since you are vocal about it? I look forward to seeing your post, and letting the exchange of ideas flow.
To your third point, whenever there is a debate of some sort, I try to set the tone of the debate to be respectful and inclusive of ideas. If you want, I can look through important discussion threads and show you where I clearly state this. The CDs do want open discussion. I have echoed that for a long time. We want you to be able to talk about what you want to talk about. Why do you think we made CAT public? Because we want everyone to see what discussions are taking place.
Caymanmew wrote:Well, you have not been lazy JD, your very much on top of things and often times say and do the opposite of the other CD's. But for example, look at war privileges. We have had wars this year delayed due to long wait times on privileges. Just recently Lindax gave BOB and AFOS shit for being slow to start their war while they were waiting for privileges. Additionally, ICON and LOTZ had a fair bit of drama started when their war was delayed after a long wait for privileges.
Also... trying to combine CL and CC into a single event for no apparent reason is pure fucking laziness. Add onto that CWC was full of weird rules/setting restrictions and was only going to be run if we had at least 16 clans and it seems like it might have been an attempted out of running anything. As long as the BS rules keep a few clans away you'll have less than 16 and you guys could cancel the whole thing... As lindax said, it wouldn't be worth running it with less than 16 clans signed up.
To your first point, BOB and AFOS war got privs 24 hours after both parties agreed to terms. And Lindax was being half-sarcastic, half-serious. The war post was posted extremely late (fault of BOB and AFOS), and not to mention that the Second Chance Bracket had been stalled due to 1 Hive game.
ICON and LOTZ war privs were a few days late. You are correct. But that is not what started the drama. It was the two clans not being disciplined enough to not degrade each other after multiple warnings.
And yet here we are, running CC, CL, and CWC. Please keep in mind that CWC was a test tournament, and that we had a CAT post about rules and discussion about the tournament. You were free to provide feedback, and that is something we as a CD team want to get once the tournament is over.
Caymanmew wrote:I actually believe you are interested in what I say. Some of the others in the CD's... they'd much rather I shut up and not share my thoughts.
We want to hear your thoughts. I would just challenge you to be less abrasive when saying things like all CDs are lazy, or all CDs kill discussion/events/etc. We will be more receptive to your ideas when we are not insulted. That is human nature.
Look forward to seeing your reply,