Letter to the Clans of CC

[freakns]

secondly, my clan and i have voted every single time for every question thats been raised. so im not sure where did you got the idea i wasnt voting? i know your knowledge of english is limited, but i didnt knew your logic is failing you too... i

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=187980&p=4120083#p4120083

also, i will not vote again on any issue. not me, not any other member of Otpisani.

As you showed to be liar at the very beginning of your post, I did not bother even to read rest of your post. I do not speak with liars.

wasnt votig... and i will not vote. past and future time. are you really that stupid that you do not understand the difference?
i have voted first time, voted for your option actually, and i have refused to vote again after they change voting options and start insulting clan representatives. how is that not clear to you? as for calling me a liar, you should be banned for this, and i will not answer to such a primitive attempt of trying to insult someone, because just as much you have failed in understanding what is written, you are failing in insulting. because after all this time spend here trying to manipulate system and lying to others, you have come so far away from truth that i understand that you cant tell the difference anymore.
go play some chess with GLG and bruce, and let honest ppl discuss.

[Keefie]

I really hope keefie or someone has still got that PM chain and can send it over to you because then you will see just how far from the actual truth you are.

Glad to oblige mate.

Josko, please take care to read the second pm. I think you'll agree that no attempt has been made to coerce or manipulate other clans. I won't post any of the replies as it's not for me to reveal publicly other peoples private messages, but I can assure you that they contained nothing sinister.

The only attempts to manipulate / corrupt the vote came from Top 16 clans. I won't name them but they know who they are.

25th March - PM 1 sent to all clan leaders for clans not in the top 16.

Hello Everyone,

I'm writing to you all as the CD&F clan reps for clans who are currently outside of the top 16 in the F400 rankings.

This week there will be a vote in the CD&F regarding the seeding and draw format for the CC Conquerers Cup 4. As it stands at the moment it looks like we will be given three options to vote on (see below).

As I see it, options 1 & 3 both give the top clans a major advantage over all of us. Option 1 was used in CC3 and only 3 lower ranked clans made it into the last 16. Option 3 gives the top clans an even greater advantage in that they don't enter the competition until the later rounds. Why on earth should they have that advantage !!!!!!!

The only option that give our clans a realistic chance of progression through the rounds and a chance of getting a win or two under our belts, as well as a stab at a top 3 spot, is option 2.

The random draw is used successfully in cup competitions throughout the world in many major sports. Yes top teams can face each other in early rounds and minnows can progress further, but that adds to the romance and excitement of these competitions.

VOTE Option 2 if you don't want your clan to be Cannon Fodder for the top teams.

Best Regards
Keefie


29th March - PM 2 Same address list plus CD's are copied.

Hi Everyone,

Well looks like the arguments are continuing in both of the threads

Sadly some of the top clans including The Pack and Immortal Assassins are threatening to withdraw completely from this competition and set up their own if Option 2 wins the vote. If they do, then I'm positive that others will join them and CC4 will never happen. I for one really don't want that to happen.

Option 2 isn't wanted by the high ranked clans and option 1 isn't wanted by most of us who have voted so far. Therefore it looks like a compromise must be reached.

That leaves option 3, which was suggested by Josko.Ri of KORT. This option combines an element of randomness in the early draws plus there is seeding. I personally think that having 16 seeds in a competition that will most likely have between 30 and 40 entries is too many. 20 to 25% of the field being seeded is quite normal in most sporting competitions so I would propose that only the top 8 clans are seeded. The Headless Horsemen are prepared to change our vote, so I thought it only fair to inform you all of our intentions.

Take another look at Option 3a and see if you agree that it's a compromise that can be made in order to save the competition and a split in clan land.

Best Regards
Keefie

[Chewie1]

I have lost count of the PMs I've recieved saying " please vote on this"

. Just for record, there are 3 Cup tournaments where lower clans participate (CCup, NC, ACC) so this one, which is the only where also top clans participate, should be made according to set up preferred by top clans.
.

.

And here we have it.

The egotistic BS I dont remember reading anywhere that CC4 was a cup set up to suit the needs of the big clans.

I would be very interested if you could point the thread/post out to me josko.ri

[Chariot of Fire]

If it's any consolation I'm very much on your side, preferring an all-random draw and the only byes granted going to those clans who still have to complete CC3 if we want to start this sooner rather than later.

This is supposed to be the premier of all clan knockout tournaments, welcoming all without exception and on a level playing field. What difference does it make if we had to play Kort then MB instead of MB then Kort (for example)? Still have to go all the way to lift the cup. It would be a lot more exciting with a random draw, likely producing some very interesting match-ups every round instead of the lopsided challenges that we've seen in the past in the early rounds.

[Chewie1]

If it's any consolation I'm very much on your side, preferring an all-random draw and the only byes granted going to those clans who still have to complete CC3 if we want to start this sooner rather than later.

This is supposed to be the premier of all clan knockout tournaments, welcoming all without exception and on a level playing field. What difference does it make if we had to play Kort then MB instead of MB then Kort (for example)? Still have to go all the way to lift the cup. It would be a lot more exciting with a random draw, likely producing some very interesting match-ups every round instead of the lopsided challenges that we've seen in the past in the early rounds.

Well said.

[josko.ri]

I have lost count of the PMs I've recieved saying " please vote on this"

. Just for record, there are 3 Cup tournaments where lower clans participate (CCup, NC, ACC) so this one, which is the only where also top clans participate, should be made according to set up preferred by top clans.
.

.

And here we have it.

The egotistic BS I dont remember reading anywhere that CC4 was a cup set up to suit the needs of the big clans.

I would be very interested if you could point the thread/post out to me josko.ri

Writing from mobile so cannot copy quote but lets find CC1 and its description and you will see the Cup was made to ind out the best clan on the site by merging normal clan wara into tournament single elimination structure. And not everyone is able to read between the lines so I have to reveal how you will dind the best clan on the site. If you consider fact that in last 2 years noone ranked lower than 9 made any win vs clans ranked higher than 8, how do you expect that now suddenly someone will win 2 or 3 in a row matches vs top 8 clans? I kniw theoretically it is possible but it is possible under every proposed system if you want spean about pure theory. In practice chances for that are around zero and therefore we came to conclusion that maib putpose od this event is to be made according zo wishes of top clans as they always compete final title. Final four in every event was made by top 8 clans, so iz shows enough about strenth. Finally you have NC with limited access to clans ranked higher than 20. Where is there democracy for which you are so hard fighting here? Lower clans make event for themselves and forbid access to top clans. Ob the other side top clans made event for themselves but still allow to anyone interested to enter. Also in every serious sport evebt there HAVE TO be competition primary made for top clans in order to find the best but allow anyone shot to be that best. That said, competition needs all top clans to be considered true competition while it does not need lower clans who anyway lose in round 32. Imagine FIFA world cup without Brasil or FIBA world cup without USA. You see with that example that competitions needs the best ones in order to be valued competition. FIBA world cup without USA would lose its value and without Croatia would still have its value.

[Chewie1]

I have lost count of the PMs I've recieved saying " please vote on this"

. Just for record, there are 3 Cup tournaments where lower clans participate (CCup, NC, ACC) so this one, which is the only where also top clans participate, should be made according to set up preferred by top clans.
.

.

And here we have it.

The egotistic BS I dont remember reading anywhere that CC4 was a cup set up to suit the needs of the big clans.

I would be very interested if you could point the thread/post out to me josko.ri

Writing from mobile so cannot copy quote but lets find CC1 and its description and you will see the Cup was made to ind out the best clan on the site by merging normal clan wara into tournament single elimination structure. And not everyone is able to read between the lines so I have to reveal how you will dind the best clan on the site. If you consider fact that in last 2 years noone ranked lower than 9 made any win vs clans ranked higher than 8, how do you expect that now suddenly someone will win 2 or 3 in a row matches vs top 8 clans? I kniw theoretically it is possible but it is possible under every proposed system if you want spean about pure theory. In practice chances for that are around zero and therefore we came to conclusion that maib putpose od this event is to be made according zo wishes of top clans as they always compete final title. Final four in every event was made by top 8 clans, so iz shows enough about strenth. Finally you have NC with limited access to clans ranked higher than 20. Where is there democracy for which you are so hard fighting here? Lower clans make event for themselves and forbid access to top clans. Ob the other side top clans made event for themselves but still allow to anyone interested to enter. Also in every serious sport evebt there HAVE TO be competition primary made for top clans in order to find the best but allow anyone shot to be that best. That said, competition needs all top clans to be considered true competition while it does not need lower clans who anyway lose in round 32. Imagine FIFA world cup without Brasil or FIBA world cup without USA. You see with that example that competitions needs the best ones in order to be valued competition. FIBA world cup without USA would lose its value and without Croatia would still have its value.

Ok so that was CC1 where " cup was made to find out the best clan on the site"

I'm talking about a post or a thread from the proposed CHANGE when trying to sort out the structure for CC4, its called progress, what was intended for CC1 possibly/clearly doesnt fit for CC4 hence the problems we are now faced with.
There would have been a lot less clans entering in CC1 so probably not the huge difference in class that we have in CC clans now.

"Should be made according to set up preferred by top clans." This statement also confirms why the vote was ignored in place of the final decision.

[niMic]

There would have been a lot less clans entering in CC1 so probably not the huge difference in class that we have in CC clans now.

Really? In CC1 we won our first match 29-11. In CC3 we won our first match 27-14. Doesn't seem that much easier now.

[Chewie1]

There would have been a lot less clans entering in CC1 so probably not the huge difference in class that we have in CC clans now.

Really? In CC1 we won our first match 29-11. In CC3 we won our first match 27-14. Doesn't seem that much easier now.

What were the match ups?

And were you seeded in CC1?

[eddie2]

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site.. so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

[Chewie1]

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site.. so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

Exactly!

[freakns]

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site.. so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

you drunk again?

there was seeding in CCup1. all clans who enter CCup1 have made their list and Chuck made seeding as a result of those lists.

[niMic]

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site..

What?! There absolutely was seeding in the first Cup. We were seeded third.

so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

I realize you only signed up to CC in 2009, but that's no excuse for saying something this stupid. Have you heard about THOTA? They were considered the best clan on CC for years before CCup was even thought up, with TSM the generally accepted second for much of that time. In fact, the very final of the first Cup saw the first loss in the history of THOTA, which was considered a monumental event. So, please, go on and tell me how we didn't have any classification of top or bottom ranked clans.

If these are the sort of misconceptions you base your opinions of the Cup on, then I can see why you say the things you do. I just can't condone it.

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site.. so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

Exactly!

Exactly, except the entirety of his post is factually incorrect. I think you need a new spokesman.

[Chewie1]

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site..

What?! There absolutely was seeding in the first Cup. We were seeded third.

so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

I realize you only signed up to CC in 2009, but that's no excuse for saying something this stupid. Have you heard about THOTA? They were considered the best clan on CC for years before CCup was even thought up, with TSM the generally accepted second for much of that time. In fact, the very final of the first Cup saw the first loss in the history of THOTA, which was considered a monumental event. So, please, go on and tell me how we didn't have any classification of top or bottom ranked clans.

If these are the sort of misconceptions you base your opinions of the Cup on, then I can see why you say the things you do. I just can't condone it.

there was no seeding in ccup1 there was also only about 20 or 25 clans on site.. so this is a real bad example for saying it was for the top clans only because them days there wasnt really any classification of top and bottom ranked clans.

Exactly!

Exactly, except the entirety of his post is factually incorrect. I think you need a new spokesman.

Fair point guilty as charged should have researched CC1 myself.

But still doesnt change the fact of the total balls up that has us taken place for CC4

[niMic]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

[chapcrap]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

[freakns]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

you are wrong, its perfect! even josko said its perfect, and we all know josko always tells the truth! and if you dare to disagree with it, you are failing in doing democracy(im still trying to find out what does that mean, so maybe its a good thing... *shrugs*)

[Chewie1]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

All for one one for all huh chap!

[chapcrap]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

All for one one for all huh chap!

I'm not sure you understand me very well if that's what you think.

[Chewie1]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

All for one one for all huh chap!

I'm not sure you understand me very well if that's what you think.

Just asking. (TBH I know your better than that) ssh.

[niMic]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

Whether you think the end result is any good or not, you can't possibly think that the process was healthy or well executed.

[freakns]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

Whether you think the end result is any good or not, you can't possibly think that the process was healthy or well executed.

1 and a half year old baby trying to poop in toilet for the first time is process thats better executed then most of the things CDs do. and this was far worse then most of the things CDs do.
so yeah, he was sarcastic... if this post wasnt well written id be sure it was josko who is sitting for you and post before he log off(he is usually the one who can not grasp the concept of sarcasm... or irony... or humor...)

[eddie2]

wait a minute clans ranking other clans could not possibly be classed as a proper seeding nmic. and yes i agree with the fact that thota run away with things back then fact still goes you have mentioned 2 clans names that were thought to be the top clans on site... So was that event made for them 2 clans only. i think not it was made for all clans to take part.

[niMic]

I think everyone will agree with that particular statement, CD's included.

I don't agree. I think the setup of CC4 is fine.

Whether you think the end result is any good or not, you can't possibly think that the process was healthy or well executed.

1 and a half year old baby trying to poop in toilet for the first time is process thats better executed then most of the things CDs do. and this was far worse then most of the things CDs do.
so yeah, he was sarcastic... if this post wasnt well written id be sure it was josko who is sitting for you and post before he log off(he is usually the one who can not grasp the concept of sarcasm... or irony... or humor...)

Sarcasm should usually be more... sarcastic.

Like if he said "Oh no, I think it went brilliantly!" or "What ever would make you think that?"

But I'm sure you're right

(see?)

[Gypsys Kiss]

Josko, I'm sorry but you cant compare the FIFA or FIBA world cups with this event. Neither are straight knockout tournaments. If you want a comparison go for a tennis grand slam or a domestic football cup, each are run differently(....so pick which suits you better). I will say that unseeded competition are what dreams are made of, just ask Ronnie Radford. But hey, if you need an easier route to the later stages of the tournament.....you cant be that confidant can you?



Oh, and to my knowledge Brazil has never refused to enter a world cup because they didn't get there way.