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Re: owenshooter

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:57 pm

General Mojo wrote:Wouldn't it benefit both CC's administrative reputation as well as the community at large to ditch this "we don't give explanations for bans" nonsense policy that you guys currently have? If we had some kind of precedent for the kinds of things that can get you these extended forum bans, there probably wouldn't be quite as much hostility towards the mods, and generally the forums would be more pleasant (and more populated). I have been a member here for about 3 years now, and I can attest that the forums have progressively gone downhill during my time here, in large part because of these covert punishments to some of the most active members on the forum.

For the benefit of everyone, I really hope this changes...and soon.


The kinds of things that can get you a long ban are repeated violations of the Community Guidelines. They are available to everybody to read.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby jefjef on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:34 pm

Night Strike wrote:
General Mojo wrote:Wouldn't it benefit both CC's administrative reputation as well as the community at large to ditch this "we don't give explanations for bans" nonsense policy that you guys currently have? If we had some kind of precedent for the kinds of things that can get you these extended forum bans, there probably wouldn't be quite as much hostility towards the mods, and generally the forums would be more pleasant (and more populated). I have been a member here for about 3 years now, and I can attest that the forums have progressively gone downhill during my time here, in large part because of these covert punishments to some of the most active members on the forum.

For the benefit of everyone, I really hope this changes...and soon.


The kinds of things that can get you a long ban are repeated violations of the Community Guidelines. They are available to everybody to read.


You mean the same guidelines that are creatively interpreted and applied unequally and randomly?
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Re: owenshooter

Postby obliterationX on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:46 pm

jefjef wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
General Mojo wrote:Wouldn't it benefit both CC's administrative reputation as well as the community at large to ditch this "we don't give explanations for bans" nonsense policy that you guys currently have? If we had some kind of precedent for the kinds of things that can get you these extended forum bans, there probably wouldn't be quite as much hostility towards the mods, and generally the forums would be more pleasant (and more populated). I have been a member here for about 3 years now, and I can attest that the forums have progressively gone downhill during my time here, in large part because of these covert punishments to some of the most active members on the forum.

For the benefit of everyone, I really hope this changes...and soon.


The kinds of things that can get you a long ban are repeated violations of the Community Guidelines. They are available to everybody to read.


You mean the same guidelines that are creatively interpreted and applied unequally and randomly?

The community guidelines are, if I'm going to be completely honest, applied in an unfair, inequitable, and terrible manner, in a growing number of circumstances. I'm guessing it's something to do with the new modships at the so-called "Team CC". I'm sure these corrupted newbies will learn how to moderate soon enough, though. Give them time, is what I say!
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Re: owenshooter

Postby the.killing.44 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:50 pm

I noticed Andy threatened to ban him from the gaming aspect of the site too: how does that work?
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Re: owenshooter

Postby obliterationX on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:56 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:I noticed Andy threatened to ban him from the gaming aspect of the site too: how does that work?

I, for one, would find aforementioned punishment to be wholly preposterous!
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Re: owenshooter

Postby the.killing.44 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:58 pm

obliterationX wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:I noticed Andy threatened to ban him from the gaming aspect of the site too: how does that work?

I, for one, would find aforementioned punishment to be wholly preposterous!

You're missing an article.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby jbrettlip on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:08 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:I noticed Andy threatened to ban him from the gaming aspect of the site too: how does that work?


Andy, the mod squad and apparently Scott-land can do whatever they want. The rest of us cannot. What a bunch of doo doo browns.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:10 pm

So when is the Free Owen movement starting? I want in.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby General Mojo on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:11 pm

Night Strike wrote:
General Mojo wrote:Wouldn't it benefit both CC's administrative reputation as well as the community at large to ditch this "we don't give explanations for bans" nonsense policy that you guys currently have? If we had some kind of precedent for the kinds of things that can get you these extended forum bans, there probably wouldn't be quite as much hostility towards the mods, and generally the forums would be more pleasant (and more populated). I have been a member here for about 3 years now, and I can attest that the forums have progressively gone downhill during my time here, in large part because of these covert punishments to some of the most active members on the forum.

For the benefit of everyone, I really hope this changes...and soon.


The kinds of things that can get you a long ban are repeated violations of the Community Guidelines. They are available to everybody to read.




That arrogant and condescending response is exactly the type of thing that I am referring to in terms of the forums going progressively downhill in the past three years. All laws, or in this case community guidelines, are open to interpretation. This is why in our (and by our i mean the United States) justice system, judicial decisions are published in the public domain so that society will have a better understanding for how the law will be enforced and applied. If you want conquer club to be preceived as a fair an equitable place (which I presume and hope the administration would), you will realize the error of your ways and follow suit. The clientele, especially the paying ones, deserve and should expect nothing less.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:40 pm

General Mojo wrote:This is why in our (and by our i mean the United States) justice system, judicial decisions are published in the public domain so that society will have a better understanding for how the law will be enforced and applied.

I was actually going to say just his, and you beat me to it.

I see no reason why you cannot say what got a person banned. Comparing the moderators to real world police makes you guys look like a bunch of Brown Shirts. Seriously.
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I've thought about it and since this is a private site there should be no reason that you can't. In fact, that is what the community wants. Now I really like most of the community mods. I even like NS. But seriously, this is f*cked up.

General Mojo wrote:All laws, or in this case community guidelines, are open to interpretation.

Its so frustrating to me. I hang out in OT since the moderating there is fair, and the forum isn't stuffy like GD. But you can't say the same things in GD and OT.


I like Owen. I wish I knew for certain why he got banned.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:43 pm

In fact, having said this, I really hope that we can use this as a catalyst for changing the current rule. A new world and a better tomorrow.


Hey and just for future reference, I would like any reason I ever get banned to be public knowledge.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:44 pm

General Mojo wrote:That arrogant and condescending response is exactly the type of thing that I am referring to in terms of the forums going progressively downhill in the past three years. All laws, or in this case community guidelines, are open to interpretation. This is why in our (and by our i mean the United States) justice system, judicial decisions are published in the public domain so that society will have a better understanding for how the law will be enforced and applied. If you want conquer club to be preceived as a fair an equitable place (which I presume and hope the administration would), you will realize the error of your ways and follow suit. The clientele, especially the paying ones, deserve and should expect nothing less.


The administrators made a decision that reasons for personal forum punishments would not be made public by them. It's not going to change. This is a private site, not a matter of public records and proceedings. If a member thinks something they are going to post is going to break the guidelines, then perhaps it shouldn't be posted.

By the way, the paying clientele doesn't pay to participate on this forum, so public notifications of actions taken regarding forum discipline is not "deserved".

Juan_Bottom wrote:Hey and just for future reference, I would like any reason I ever get banned to be public knowledge.


You have the freedom to post that reason yourself once any ban you receive ends.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:54 pm

just a rhetorical question to consider:

if owen should be more selective in choosing which posts to refer for moderation, then shouldn't it stand to reason that the mods should be more selective in choosing which referrals to investigate? the well worn cliche of lupine lamenting springs to mind. as much as I have come to dislike him in recent times it still seems to me that 6 months is both extravagant and unnecessary for the stated offence.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:58 pm

khazalid wrote:just a rhetorical question to consider:

if owen should be more selective in choosing which posts to refer for moderation, then shouldn't it stand to reason that the mods should be more selective in choosing which referrals to investigate? the well worn cliche of lupine lamenting springs to mind. as much as I have come to dislike him in recent times it still seems to me that 6 months is both extravagant and unnecessary for the stated offence.


There is no way to pick and choose which reports to investigate: each one has to be opened to see why they were made.

By the way, you forgot the rest of Andy's reasoning that was posted in the quote: "It seems recently you've engaged in numerous spurious reported posts, in addition to continued trolling, baiting, beatin' a dead horse, and requiring our volunteers to spend a disproportionate time responding to exclusively your needs."
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:07 pm

General Mojo wrote:Wouldn't it benefit both CC's administrative reputation as well as the community at large to ditch this "we don't give explanations for bans" nonsense policy that you guys currently have?


As much as I'd like to know the situation of this case myself, they absolutely are right in not giving out the details, in my opinion. The individual is still free to release the information if they want to, and I like that the site is protecting the individual's ability to keep it confidential if the individual wants to.

the.killing.44 wrote:I noticed Andy threatened to ban him from the gaming aspect of the site too: how does that work?


That's standard, I'm pretty sure. In every long-term ban I've seen (not many, admittedly), that was included.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby khazalid on Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:19 pm

Night Strike wrote:
khazalid wrote:just a rhetorical question to consider:

if owen should be more selective in choosing which posts to refer for moderation, then shouldn't it stand to reason that the mods should be more selective in choosing which referrals to investigate? the well worn cliche of lupine lamenting springs to mind. as much as I have come to dislike him in recent times it still seems to me that 6 months is both extravagant and unnecessary for the stated offence.


There is no way to pick and choose which reports to investigate: each one has to be opened to see why they were made.

By the way, you forgot the rest of Andy's reasoning that was posted in the quote: "It seems recently you've engaged in numerous spurious reported posts, in addition to continued trolling, baiting, beatin' a dead horse, and requiring our volunteers to spend a disproportionate time responding to exclusively your needs."


in that case, can i have my recent disciplinary wiped? given that I was complaining about owen doing exactly what you've just banned him for that doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby General Mojo on Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:24 pm

You guys are missing the point. Its not a matter of right or wrong, CC can do whatever the f*ck it wants. My point is that the way they are currently enforcing and monitoring the forums has had real detrimental consequences to the forums. Anyone who has been a member for a long period of time likely will agree with me that the forums used to be much more pleasant and entertaining. They've chased away a large portion of the community with their nazi-like governance and holier-than-thou attitude.

From the looks of Nightstrike's response, its not going to change....and quite frankly, they don't give two flying shits that they've run the forums into the ground. Thats their prerogative, but pretty disappointing and pathetic in my opinion, because the forums used to be a great source of camaraderie and entertainment on this site.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby azezzo on Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:58 pm

Agreed! and its the inconsitency of how the rules are enforced thats killing this site, mpjh for example got away with multiple trolling and baiting of owenshooter.

Just curious, when will the Conquer Club shop start selling those stylish "JackBoots" that the mods are wearing this fall?
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Re: owenshooter

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 pm

General Mojo wrote:That arrogant and condescending response is exactly the type of thing that I am referring to in terms of the forums going progressively downhill in the past three years. All laws, or in this case community guidelines, are open to interpretation. This is why in our (and by our i mean the United States) justice system, judicial decisions are published in the public domain so that society will have a better understanding for how the law will be enforced and applied. If you want conquer club to be preceived as a fair an equitable place (which I presume and hope the administration would), you will realize the error of your ways and follow suit. The clientele, especially the paying ones, deserve and should expect nothing less.


This is actually an interesting point. I had really never considered it from this angle, and honestly this really got me thinking. I would like to point out that the vast majority of judicial opinions are not actually published. Instead, we simply get the ruling. The difference is that across the US there are enough to make for plenty of reading.

Having said that, generally when opinions DO get published is when it is a big issue, controversial case, or a the court wants to rule on a matter of law. Which, to me, it would seem this case qualifies for. Obviously Owen is a most prolific CC poster, and we also know that he is very good at seeing how far he can push a rule.

The other side of things is that published judicial opinions is that they are exclusively from secondary courts. You pretty much never get a rule of law from a trial court. At CC, the forum ban is like trial court, I am sure there is an e-ticket appeal active as we speak. I would ask that E-Ticket appeals get published so we can review those.

Again, all of my post is about American systems, and simply because that is where my experience is. I could make some statements about Canadian and British systems, but I'd rather not unless I really knew what I was talking about. Good post General Mojo, you really got me thinking.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby targetman377 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:11 pm

i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:16 pm

targetman377 wrote:i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.


Does http://www.freetranslation.com have a targetman to English translation setting?
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Re: owenshooter

Postby demonfork on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:22 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
targetman377 wrote:i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.


Does http://www.freetranslation.com have a targetman to English translation setting?


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Re: owenshooter

Postby targetman377 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:37 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
targetman377 wrote:i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.


Does http://www.freetranslation.com have a targetman to English translation setting?



owen once said some was was flaming/ baiting him cause they where making fun of his spelling. i asked him but you do the same thing to me he said his post weren't flaming/ baiting now i don't think that making fun of my spelling is flaming/ baiting but i thought it was funny that he was crying wolf just saying and yes they do look up target language.
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Re: owenshooter

Postby neanderpaul14 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:38 pm

e_i_pi wrote:Can one of the mods / admin point me in the direction of what got him the 6 month "vacation"?



Good taste??
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Re: owenshooter

Postby Foxglove on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:48 pm

targetman377 wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
targetman377 wrote:i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.


Does http://www.freetranslation.com have a targetman to English translation setting?



owen once said some was was flaming/ baiting him cause they where making fun of his spelling. i asked him but you do the same thing to me he said his post weren't flaming/ baiting now i don't think that making fun of my spelling is flaming/ baiting but i thought it was funny that he was crying wolf just saying and yes they do look up target language.


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